Post-Game Talk: Game # 31 Rangers vs Buffalo - 7pm EST - MSG

[CupSeeker]

Hajek is playing the most sheltered ten minutes a game on the third pairing.

Even guys like Stu Bickel and Jason Strudwick could do that.

I’m not ripping on the kid but we will know we have a good third pairing when we no longer need to ride Fox Miller and Trouba for 26 minutes each a game.

Robertson and Lundkvist, send up the bat signal

Hajek is performing well in all zones in the time he is being given. He is starting to exert himself in the O zone where you can see what a great skater he is. He is going to be a good player in this league. For us? Who knows.

 

[Machinehead]

Who are his most common forwards?

Rooney
Lafreniere
Lemieux
Howden
Kakko
Chytil

Lafreniere is posting a 39.9% xGF% with Hajek and 52.3% without.

Chytil is at 45% with and 59.5% without.

He doesn't cave the 4th line as much but he absolutely bodies our 3rd line.

 

[TheDirtyH]

Has Hajek seen many minutes away from Smith and Johnson?

 

[tomobson]

Has Hajek seen many minutes away from Smith and Johnson?

He played that one game with Lindgren when Fox was on covid protocol I believe.

 

[kovazub94]

Rooney
Lafreniere
Lemieux
Howden
Kakko
Chytil

Lafreniere is posting a 39.9% xGF% with Hajek and 52.3% without.

Chytil is at 45% with and 59.5% without.

He doesn't cave the 4th line as much but he absolutely bodies our 3rd line.

What a surprise that Chytil and Lafreniere do better with defensemen who (almost) no one argues are better than Hajek as reflected in multiple categories.

But I wanted to see a comparison of Hajek effectiveness when he's on the ice with Chytil (or even broader - all forwards other than) vs when he's with Howden & Lemieux.

 

[Machinehead]

What a surprise that Chytil and Lafreniere do better with defensemen who (almost) no one argues are better than Hajek as reflected in multiple categories.

But I wanted to see a comparison of Hajek effectiveness when he's on the ice with Chytil (or even broader - all forwards other than) vs when he's with Howden & Lemieux.

He's surprisingly better with the 4th line.

Except for Kakko. Kakko and Hajek together have a 63% xGF%.

The last, like, third of the season, everyone who plays with Kakko has amazing results.

 

[Jaromir Jagr]

Hajek just turned 23. It always frustrates me how much patience is lacking around here. Imagine if we'd had Zibby during his Senator years? Everyone would have been begging to move him and we would have watched him flourish elsewhere. Many players don't hit their stride until their mid/late 20's.

We're not going anywhere this year. It's worth Hajek (amongst others) getting minutes and building confidence. I'd also like to see what he can do away from Smith. Not everyone is going to step in like Fox or Lindgren. Humans are complex and there are many different paths each takes to reach their potential.

This goes for the point productions for Laf & KK as well. Joe Thornton had 7 points his first NHL season.

 

[kovazub94]

He's surprisingly better with the 4th line.

Except for Kakko. Kakko and Hajek together have a 63% xGF%.

The last, like, third of the season, everyone who plays with Kakko has amazing results.

That is surprising. Folks talk about sheltered minutes for Hajek and would include our 4th liners too (except for when they were on the ice late in the 3rd in a close game against Ovechkin)

 

[Embryo]

I found this on fb lol

 

[SnowblindNYR]

I found this on fb lol

That doesn't make sense to me. The Sabres aren't even a Rangers' rival. Why would we care if they break the streak? It's kind of cool but not at the expense of the Rangers.

 

[Embryo]

That doesn't make sense to me. The Sabres aren't even a Rangers' rival. Why would we care if they break the streak? It's kind of cool but not at the expense of the Rangers.

idk I didn't make it, I just thought it was funny and relevant to this thread.

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

he literally does it all the time with both laf and kakko when they look like theyre going...and if prior evidence isn't enough knoblauch said it explicitly after the game it was part of the gameplan put together by quinn to get kakko more minutes and on that line, primarily as an acknowledgement of recent play.

this is a kid just emerging. the tears over him being broken or held back by quinn could only come from people who don't understand hockey. this shouldn't be a surprise to see him have a breakout game for anyone paying attention... he's taken progressive steps for a long time now people that only see progress in box scores have been missing...this has been building, and its only the beginning.

Not only did you make this post but a LOT of people liked it.

Yet for years where have all of you been when everyone has openly questioned what it is exactly Quinn is doing for the kids? Even now you didnt actually provide any sort of insight.

We've had historically underperforming offense for two seasons in a row now out of our top 2 picks.

And after Kakko has a single great offensive output (and one was an EN) you come in here crowing about how everyone else is dumb and you were right all along? Seems like you don't know anymore or less than the rest of us but it didn't stop you from demeaning large swaths of people for seeing the reality that our rookies have not been performing anywhere NEAR what's expected offensively.

It's very reasonable to think a better coach could have gotten significantly more offense out of Laf and Kakko while still training them up defensively all this time. It's completely unreasonable to pretend otherwise unless you actually know what you're talking about and have something to share in which case I'm legitimately all ears.

If that were the case though you likely already would have gone into some kind of detail to defend your stance instead of pointing to a single box score result and labeling everyone else as dumb & whiny.

 

[Harbour Dog]

Not only did you make this post but a LOT of people liked it.

Yet for years where have all of you been when everyone has openly questioned what it is exactly Quinn is doing for the kids? Even now you didnt actually provide any sort of insight.

We've had historically underperforming offense for two seasons in a row now out of our top 2 picks.

And after Kakko has a single great offensive output (and one was an EN) you come in here crowing about how everyone else is dumb and you were right all along? Seems like you don't know anymore or less than the rest of us but it didn't stop you from demeaning large swaths of people for seeing the reality that our rookies have not been performing anywhere NEAR what's expected offensively.

Not responding directly to your point; more an observation of the argument:

One large disconnect for me is that I think Kakko has been fantastic pretty much the entire season. As soon as a discussion starts off with Kakko isn't playing well, or he's being ruined, or his career trajectory is poor; I lose interest.

I think the premise itself is demonstrably wrong. Kakko needs to learn to finish more assertively; that's pretty much it. His development is tracking excellently, in my opinion.

 

[Machinehead]

I'm rooting for the Sabres to win big time.

I don't want to be the team they finally win against.

 

[Machinehead]

I'm rooting for the Sabres to win big time.

I don't want to be the team they finally win against.

 

[cheech70]

While watching the rerun I kept saying I would never trade Buch for Hall straight up...

 

[Chytilmania]

While watching the rerun I kept saying I would never trade Buch for Hall straight up...

A wild Taylor Hall appeared...

 

[kovazub94]

Not only did you make this post but a LOT of people liked it.

Yet for years where have all of you been when everyone has openly questioned what it is exactly Quinn is doing for the kids? Even now you didnt actually provide any sort of insight.

We've had historically underperforming offense for two seasons in a row now out of our top 2 picks.

And after Kakko has a single great offensive output (and one was an EN) you come in here crowing about how everyone else is dumb and you were right all along? Seems like you don't know anymore or less than the rest of us but it didn't stop you from demeaning large swaths of people for seeing the reality that our rookies have not been performing anywhere NEAR what's expected offensively.

It's very reasonable to think a better coach could have gotten significantly more offense out of Laf and Kakko while still training them up defensively all this time. It's completely unreasonable to pretend otherwise unless you actually know what you're talking about and have something to share in which case I'm legitimately all ears.

If that were the case though you likely already would have gone into some kind of detail to defend your stance instead of pointing to a single box score result and labeling everyone else as dumb & whiny.

Thank you for your rant. If I could retort on a couple of points:

1. PC - Prior to Covid, the only major question against Quinn was his use of Andersson vs. Howden. We know how this one settled. Other issues? They all pretty much were due to the roster he had to manage, especially on the bottom lines and defensive pairs. Now that he got better options from Gorton - these discussions also died down.
2. AC - After Covid, the "questions" got to the impossible to bear constant level of screaming and ranting. Completely ignored are facts that easily connect impact from Covid on the Rangers results or otherwise unrelated to something that is in Quinn's control. Things that were in Quinns control over longer part of his tenure has shown that his approach works.
3. Lafreniere & Kakko. I like your handle because your post is what HFNYR has recently become - ignore recent posts that showed that underlining data is either good (Kakko) and the points will soon come (e.g. last game), or production from our top prospects is actually in line with similarly high taken prospects in the last few years. What happened to you reading or responding to these posts? It looks like they were ignored for a chance to post another rant. HFNYR you are indeed.

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

Not responding directly to your point; more an observation of the argument:

One large disconnect for me is that I think Kakko has been fantastic pretty much the entire season. As soon as a discussion starts off with Kakko isn't playing well, or he's being ruined, or his career trajectory is poor; I lose interest.

I think the premise itself is demonstrably wrong. Kakko needs to learn to finish more assertively; that's pretty much it. His development is tracking excellently, in my opinion.

What I said wasn't "all of the young guys have been bad" or "Kakko has been bad".

I just pointed out how the offensive production specifically is absolutely WELL below any conservative estimates.

The point isn't "Quinn def did a bad job and the young players suck as a result"

It's
"It's very reasonable to think a better coach could have gotten significantly more offense out of Laf and Kakko while still training them up defensively all this time. It's completely unreasonable to pretend otherwise unless you actually know what you're talking about and have something to share in which case I'm legitimately all ears."

You dont have to agree that a better coach could have gotten more out of them (ditto Kravtsov, Chytil, Gauthier and Lias) but to dismiss the concept as if it has zero merit to it? You should at least have some real solid reasoning. The guy I was responding to had nothing other than blindly asserting everyone who thinks anything other than "Everything is fine, Quinn did a great job" is just a dumb whiner.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I'm rooting for the Sabres to win big time.

I don't want to be the team they finally win against.

It's going to be the Flyers because AV.

 

[Harbour Dog]

What I said wasn't "all of the young guys have been bad".

I pointed out how the offensive production is absolutely WELL below any conservative estimates.

The point isn't "Quinn def did a bad job and the young players suck as a result"

It's
"It's very reasonable to think a better coach could have gotten significantly more offense out of Laf and Kakko while still training them up defensively all this time. It's completely unreasonable to pretend otherwise unless you actually know what you're talking about and have something to share in which case I'm legitimately all ears."

Im responding to someone blindly asserting everyone who thinks otherwise is just a dumb whiner.

I would agree with what you're asserting, if it was worded 'a different coach and/or a different set of circumstances'. It's pretty rare for 1OA to come onto a team that has legitimate playoff aspirations.

But my main issue is when the argument devolves into the kids being ruined or whatever, because that's just silly. Look at Kakko's monumental leap from last season; Lafreniere could very easily do the same thing, except his starting point is much higher.

 

[aufheben]

Thank you for your rant. If I could retort on a couple of points:

1. PC - Prior to Covid, the only major question against Quinn was his use of Andersson vs. Howden. We know how this one settled. Other issues? They all pretty much were due to the roster he had to manage, especially on the bottom lines and defensive pairs. Now that he got better options from Gorton - these discussions also died down.
2. AC - After Covid, the "questions" got to the impossible to bear constant level of screaming and ranting. Completely ignored are facts that easily connect impact from Covid on the Rangers results or otherwise unrelated to something that is in Quinn's control. Things that were in Quinns control over longer part of his tenure has shown that his approach works.
3. Lafreniere & Kakko. I like your handle because your post is what HFNYR has recently become - ignore recent posts that showed that underlining data is either good (Kakko) and the points will soon come (e.g. last game), or production from our top prospects is actually in line with similarly high taken prospects in the last few years. What happened to you reading or responding to these posts? It looks like they were ignored for a chance to post another rant. HFNYR you are indeed.

First Overall Fever.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

I'm rooting for the Sabres to win big time.

I don't want to be the team they finally win against.

Same here.

 

[romba]

Yet for years where have all of you been when everyone has openly questioned what it is exactly Quinn is doing for the kids?

Same place, right here

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

I would agree with what you're asserting, if it was worded 'a different coach and/or a different set of circumstances'. It's pretty rare for 1OA to come onto a team that has legitimate playoff aspirations.

But my main issue is when the argument devolves into the kids being ruined or whatever, because that's just silly. Look at Kakko's monumental leap from last season; Lafreniere could very easily do the same thing, except his starting point is much higher.

Yea going to "the kids are DEFINITELY being ruined" is too far in the other direction. It's possible they just weren't ready physically and/or mentally. Then you have extenuating circumstances like Covid or like when Kakko joined us after this whirlwind year where he never got to stop for a second. Or Krav having reportedly terrible advice from a parent while getting homesick and having no support structure ready for him within the organization.

I don't often see people legitimately claiming that the kids are 100% being ruined. I do see people express worry that significant damage is being done and has been done to several of the kids.
I can't say those worries are totally unfounded. It should be impossible to ignore what happened with Krav and Lias last year. Add in the fact we lost ADA and we've have Chytil, Laf and kakko all drastically underperform offensively too. It's a lot of smoke.

The question then is whether
That's all on Quinn
That's shared blame bt quinn and the FO
That's bad luck (I'd chalk ADA's instability to bad luck for example) and misunderstandings mixed with Quinn and the FO screwing up.