GDT: Game #30 of the season Ducks visit Jets 3:00 PM ET on 12 - 8 - 19

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KelVarnsen

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For the players who end up good, it’s not *that* long of a process. There are guys their age and younger producing all over the NHL.

Are you saying a low first and a 5th rounder are not producing as they should in what is really their first season? Do I wish they were producing more? Of course. I’m trying to temper my expectations for them as they were not top picks and it may take them longer than an elite superstar draft pick. I still feel both will be productive NHL players for many years.
 
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KyleJRM

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Are you saying a low first and a 5th rounder are not producing as they should in what is really their first season? Do I wish they were producing more? Of course. I’m trying to temper my expectations for them as they were not top picks and it may take them longer than an elite superstar draft pick. I still feel both will be productive NHL players for many years.

Look at the post you are quoting. Now look at how you rephrased it. Do you see how they are actually quite different?

What a low first and a fifth rounder "should" do is not become particularly good players. An average NHLer and an bad AHL guy, on average. That's what they "should" become.

If Troy Terry or Sam Steel are going to be impact, top-6 type players, they should probably start producing soon. While you might get a Rakell once a decade or so, *most* players who are going to be good players (as opposed to average or bad) will end up producing decently by 22ish.

If they're going to be average or below-average-but-belong-in-NHL type guys, so be it. I'm sure their parents will be very proud of them and we can get a little value out of it.
 
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KelVarnsen

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Well I don’t think I quite follow you then. I took your post as saying good players don’t take that long to adjust. I inferred that to mean you don’t think Terry and Steel are good players because they are not producing right away. I tried pointing out they aren’t doing that bad considering they were not considered elite talent at their draft.
 

KyleJRM

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Jun 6, 2007
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Well I don’t think I quite follow you then. I took your post as saying good players don’t take that long to adjust. I inferred that to mean you don’t think Terry and Steel are good players because they are not producing right away. I tried pointing out they aren’t doing that bad considering they were not considered elite talent at their draft.

OK, I'll try to walk through this *once*.

"Good for their draft position" is not the same as "Good." (For the purposes of this conversation, I'll define good as a player who fits comfortably into at least the 2nd line or 2nd pairing on an average playoff team).

If you put me into an NHL game, I'd probably do not bad for a 37-year-old nerd who never played above beer league. Does that mean I'm on track to be a good player in the NHL? No. That's an extreme, but it illustrates the idea": you can be doing "good for a fifth-rounder" or even "good for a late-first-rounder" and still not on pace for being "good."

Someone brought up Hughes and Kakko to show that players don't dominate immediately, and that's true. But Hughes and Kakko are both producing solid numbers as teenagers, which projects them out to being good players, probably great ones.

Troy Terry is 22 and putting up 0.28 ppg in the NHL. That's *very good* for a fifth-rounder, because making the NHL at all as a fifth-rounder is very good, even if it's just one game. But it doesn't put him on track to be a good player. *Most* forwards who are good by the definition I posted above will be doing better than 0.28 PPG at 22.

It's probable that Terry and Steel will get better from where they are now. It's still *possible* that both Terry and Steel could turn into top-6 types, and because of the planning fallacy (Planning fallacy - Wikipedia), the tendency will be for fans to expect them to turn into those players because it's still possible and optimism reigns. But the median projection from where they are now is mediocrity.
 
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JabbaJabba

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For the players who end up good, it’s not *that* long of a process. There are guys their age and younger producing all over the NHL.

You are still talking about players who don't even have a season worth of games under their belt, that's very little NHL experience. There are players who are younger than Steel and Terry and performing better but players peak later in their twenties, some in their thirties. Look at Rakell's development. Look at Silfverberg's development. Manson became a regular when he was 25 years old. There are plenty of examples of players who broke out later. You also need to take into consideration the context, the Ducks are not offensively amazing team currently and are retooling, which means growing pains.

Also, I'm not expecting either Terry or Steel to become a top 10 point producer or even a PPG player. I'm not even very high on Terry who clearly needs more weight and muscles to become better and to be able to score more points. I expect Steel to become a second line center who scores 40-50 points per year, maybe 60 on a good year. Terry is more difficult as his skill set fits top 6 better than bottom line role so I see a middle six player in him but I do have my doubts if he even becomes an NHL player in the long run, but I'm willing to give him more time than 63 games to break out.
 
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