GDT: Game #30 of the season Ducks visit Jets 3:00 PM ET on 12 - 8 - 19

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Terry Yake

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i'm not even gonna bother thinking about the refs potentially blowing that call late that would've given the ducks a PP

because the PP has been a complete disaster. this is far from a playoff team. if steel, terry, and comtois don't develop the way they were expected to then this team is ******* for a long time
 

Zegs2sendhelp

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When you can't play defense and you can't score....you suck.
They are like 15th in GAA, with Lindholm/manson missing significant time and Gibson not playing very well... the defense is passable. The offense struggles but that was a given coming into the season. When the team is healthy we should defend pretty well.... and itll just be a matter of finding someone that wants to score a bit.
 

Dr Johnny Fever

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Oh I think if we added a guy like Zucker in the offseason.... we would prob be in a decent spot right now. At this point its not worth doing anything. If the team gets hot and finds themselves back in the playoff race... maybe you consider making a move.

I guess it seems weird to buy out perry, and not really do anything with it. At that point we might as well tried to see if perry could raise his potential a bit and sell him at this deadline or next.
Yeah, and what would he have cost? And how would that play into our future? Just so we might have a couple more wins this year? Unlike most years, winning is not this year's primary consideration. Building for the future is priority #1. It's great if they make the playoffs, but it just isn't a big deal to miss this year. Don't micromanage to benefit this year at the expense of the next 5-7 years.
 

Zegs2sendhelp

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Yeah, and what would he have cost? And how would that play into our future? Just so we might have a couple more wins this year? Unlike most years, winning is not this year's primary consideration. Building for the future is priority #1. It's great if they make the playoffs, but it just isn't a big deal to miss this year. Don't micromanage to benefit this year at the expense of the next 5-7 years.
Then why not trade silf/Henrique etc last season... is kinda my point, I don't think BM intended on building for the future this year. And why buy out perry… perry would be a great add for a tank season.

He has his foot half way in and half way out... he needs to be more decisive
 
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bumperkisser

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Then why not trade silf/Henrique etc last season... is kinda my point, I don't think BM intended on building for the future this year. And why buy out perry… perry would be a great add for a tank season.

He has his foot half way in and half way out... he needs to be more decisive
he called it a re-tool and not a re-build. this year is a transition year. i'd be much more worried if this is how we looked next year.
 

Dr Johnny Fever

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Then why not trade silf/Henrique etc last season... is kinda my point, I don't think BM intended on building for the future this year. And why buy out perry… perry would be a great add for a tank season.

He has his foot half way in and half way out... he needs to be more decisive
Like it or not, Perry was deemed not part of the future and not viewed by management the same as Getz as far as transitioning. They saved a few bucks.

It's not about either tanking or going for the cup. Getz, Silf, and Rico are all hard workers and good role models. Along with Manson, Fowler, and Hampus there's enough talent to show the young guys how to play right and develop good habits. You try to win every nite, but you accept that there will be growing pains and oh shit moments. People can criticize that approach if they want, but as long as management has adopted it, it makes sense not to rush out and trade for or sign some 28-30 Y/O to a long term deal when we already aren't sure what out future strengths and weaknesses will be as well as who might be worth moving in a deal for a future need. It's exactly why I never wanted Faulk at any price let alone giving up any good assets. We just need to be patient.
 

Bergey37

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Then why not trade silf/Henrique etc last season... is kinda my point, I don't think BM intended on building for the future this year. And why buy out perry… perry would be a great add for a tank season.

He has his foot half way in and half way out... he needs to be more decisive
I think he has been decisive in that he's fully committed to the "youth movement." Perry's buyout was to free some cap space and a roster spot for the kids. He kept Silf and Rico to be mentors for the kids. He wants the rookies to learn to play in the NHL, and they need some veteran guidance to make that happen. Most of our frustration (mine, at least) comes from the kids not producing the way we hoped they would. If two of them had started clicking with some regularity, we WOULD be in a playoff spot right now. I agree with your assessments of how competitive we've been and how much better we're playing. And that Eakins is a HUGE improvement over RC. But Bob's not waffling; he doesn't like to add players just to "fill holes" unless he believes the player is right for the team long term. Why he very rarely does rentals. But if that "right" player were to become available, I'm pretty sure he'd move on it. Guds is here because we had a crisis forced by injuries to 2 top d-men. And it looks like he's trying very hard to stay.

I like the play I'm seeing. Yes, I'm frustrated that the kids aren['t where I'd hoped they might be; I'm frustrated at injuries, and bad calls and too many close games that we can't grab hold of. But I believe he's dong the right things for the team's future. Stay the course.

Sorry Fever, you must have posted while I was writing this. :)
 
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Dr Johnny Fever

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I think he has been decisive in that he's fully committed to the "youth movement." Perry's buyout was to free some cap space and a roster spot for the kids. He kept Silf and Rico to be mentors for the kids. He wants the rookies to learn to play in the NHL, and they need some veteran guidance to make that happen. Most of our frustration (mine, at least) comes from the kids not producing the way we hoped they would. If two of them had started clicking with some regularity, we WOULD be in a playoff spot right now. I agree with your assessments of how competitive we've been and how much better we're playing. And that Eakins is a HUGE improvement over RC. But Bob's not waffling; he doesn't like to add players just to "fill holes" unless he believes the player is right for the team long term. Why he very rarely does rentals. But if that "right" player were to become available, I'm pretty sure he'd move on it. Guds is here because we had a crisis forced by injuries to 2 top d-men. And it looks like he's trying very hard to stay.

I like the play I'm seeing. Yes, I'm frustrated that the kids aren['t where I'd hoped they might be; I'm frustrated at injuries, and bad calls and too many close games that we can't grab hold of. But I believe he's dong the right things for the team's future. Stay the course.

Sorry Fever, you must have posted while I was writing this. :)
It's all good. We're on the same page. :thumbu:

I expected Steel and/or Terry to have a 40-50 point season this year. That was factored into my prediction that they would make the playoffs. It is disappointing that neither is doing so yet but hey, that's the way it goes. Predicting the future isn't an exact science.

I like the fact the team is night and day different from last year. I like the new approach to the game. I still hope that Steel and Terry both get to being 50 point players even if it is delayed. I think Gudbranson looks like a a solid bottom pair vet. He brings leadership, toughness and the ability to clear the crease which is currently sorely lacking on this team. I'd prefer him over Larsson or Guhle at this point in time and quite possibly for good.

This year is a learning year and management needs to get the most out of it. If they do it right I would expect that next year could be the start of a solid path forward.
 

Ducks DVM

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I think a lot of Perry being let go was linked to last summer being the first summer of his career that he actually worked out heavily to come into camp in shape. Management wanted to send a message to the kids that that behavior wouldn’t fly. None of the other reasons really make a whole lot of sense/pass the laugh test.
 
Oct 18, 2011
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i'm not even gonna bother thinking about the refs potentially blowing that call late that would've given the ducks a PP

because the PP has been a complete disaster. this is far from a playoff team. if steel, terry, and comtois don't develop the way they were expected to then this team is ******* for a long time
It is very concerning to me that we're having trouble developing offensive players on both offense and defense
 
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ADHB

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Like the slogan, not the idea.
Me either. I don’t believe in tanking, but have no issue if we “organically” lose when we’re out of contention.

That was just the first thing that popped into my head.
 

KyleJRM

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Same. These things work themselves out organically. And all you can guarantee yourself is top-4 anyway.

If all these young players we cleared roster spots for don't start producing, then we'll need a few more top-10 picks and we'll be getting them because we're gonna suck. The system works.
 

Hockey Duckie

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People can criticize that approach if they want, but as long as management has adopted it, it makes sense not to rush out and trade for or sign some 28-30 Y/O to a long term deal when we already aren't sure what out future strengths and weaknesses will be as well as who might be worth moving in a deal for a future need. It's exactly why I never wanted Faulk at any price let alone giving up any good assets. We just need to be patient.

Our strengths are in forward potential and netminding (Dostal train is raring louder and louder). Hoping that one of Guhle, Larsson, or both become mainstays at the NHL level was a huge gamble. So much so that the Ducks were in on both Shattenkirk and Faulk.

I actually have no problem with Faulk for Kase, but I have a problem with a long term (which Bob correctly walked away from). Bob found an opportunity when the Canes signed Gardiner before getting rid of any roster defenseman first. We can afford to lose a forward because we're deep with forward prospects. What we are lacking at is an all around RHD b/c we don't have that in our system. I thought Faulk was only a PP specialist, but through some research I discovered he loves to hit and block shots. It was his hitting, block shots, and health that enamored me with him because at least he plays defense. Also with Faulk, he would be the PP1 QB, displacing Fowler from the top unit.

Through a couple of articles, we know that Bob has been in touch with acquiring Gudz from Pitt. I think Bob was trying to wait it out for a better deal from Pitt, but we lost both Manson and Hampus. That facilitated an emergency to acquire Gudz at his price. I'm decently surprised that Gudz is fitting well with our defensive group as well as being the best pair complement to Fowler to date.

We haven't drafted a defenseman in the top two rounds before this year since we drafted Larsson, back in 2015. Guhle was a 2015 draftee as well, but in the second round at 51st overall. LaCombe was drafted this past draft and could stay in the NCAA for four years. Our situation today is reversed from recent years were we used to have a wealth of blue liners in our system.

Defensemen drafted by Ducks
2009: 4th round, Vatanen (we got lucky here)
2010: 1st round, Fowler
2011: 3rd round, Welinski and 6th round, Manson (we got extremely lucky here)
2012: 1st round, Lindholm
2013: 1st round, Theodore
2014: 2nd round, Pettersson and 2nd round, Montour
2015: 1st round, Larsson
2016: (3rd round, Mahura... only defenseman drafted)
2017: = no defensemen drafted =
2018: (6th round, Drew... only defenseman drafted)

As you can see, we didn't spend any draft capital in the first two rounds in 2016 - 2018, a three year span. We got lucky with Vatanen and Manson. I included Welinski only because he did play in the playoffs with the Ducks, but his talent just wasn't enough. The only top two round prospect that hasn't panned out so far is Larsson.

Vats and Pettersson were traded for offense. Theodore was traded to protect Manson. Monty was traded for factors beyond my pay grade to know definitively, but the offer Buffalo gave the Ducks was probably a more significant reason as it was a young D prospect and a first round pick.

We're no longer deep at defense because we stopped spending draft capital on defensemen for the past three drafts in the first two rounds and we're not getting lucky with a Vatanen or a Manson. Vatanen wasn't a regular at the NHL level until age 23 and Manson at age 24. We spent a majority of our draft capital on forwards during 2016 - 18. What makes that three year span worse is we spent more draft capital on goalies than defensemen! In 2017, we drafted G Ek in the fifth round. In 2018, we drafted Dostal in the 3rd round and Durny in the 5th round.

The Ducks wanted to improve their forward situation as well as have depth at netminding. Thus, the defense suffered in reloading within the system. It's very possible that we trade a forward or two for defensive help. That's what I wasn't opposed to a Faulk trade, but on Duck term length. With the addition of Gudz and how he's panning out, we're coming up with roses as we gave away virtually nothing (a forward prospect I didn't know we had and a 2021 seventh round pick). Soon, Manson will return and we'll have a proper top-4 blue line without sacrificing any top forward prospects. I think we're getting lucky here. Unfortunately, that's where the luck ends because our youthful forwards are still ducklings and our PP stinks to holy hell. I'm more worried about lack of PP effectiveness than our struggling youth.

The PP suckage is due to lack of coaching than lack of talent. I don't have patience for that after 29 games.

Eakins, 2019-20 (29 games) : PP % = 10.5%
Murray, 2018-19 (26 games) : PP % = 21.8%

Almost the same roster, but someone can't coach their PP unit well.
 

JabbaJabba

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The game was pretty entertaining and both teams had their moments and periods of dominance. The previous game between Jets and Ducks was very boring so at least entertainmentwise this was an improvement. However, like others have said, it was very clear that this team is missing elite offensive talent and the system isn't the best as for example the powerplay doesn't generate much of anything. They are able to get the puck into the zone but just pass it around there until the other team intercepts and the momentum dies. They have to be able to get more quality chances on PP and ES to be able to win games. While I don't encourage tanking, I do agree that Lafreniere would be exactly what this team needs.
 

Kalv

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More and more I appreciate Murrays decisions to put experienced veterans in the lineup (I was against it multiple times in the past). And more and more I get sad thinking we will have to play without Getzy some years from now.

Games was fun to watch. Again the youngsters look exciting but are not very productive. That`s the difference, we have to be patient. Wouldn`t mind us acquiring some veterans to be able to send/rotate the youngsters down.
 
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Zegs2sendhelp

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Like it or not, Perry was deemed not part of the future and not viewed by management the same as Getz as far as transitioning. They saved a few bucks.

It's not about either tanking or going for the cup. Getz, Silf, and Rico are all hard workers and good role models. Along with Manson, Fowler, and Hampus there's enough talent to show the young guys how to play right and develop good habits. You try to win every nite, but you accept that there will be growing pains and oh **** moments. People can criticize that approach if they want, but as long as management has adopted it, it makes sense not to rush out and trade for or sign some 28-30 Y/O to a long term deal when we already aren't sure what out future strengths and weaknesses will be as well as who might be worth moving in a deal for a future need. It's exactly why I never wanted Faulk at any price let alone giving up any good assets. We just need to be patient.
I think its more annoying seeing people act like were going to end up with a #1 pick, or the team flat out sucks. Were not going to get #1 pick with roster unless we get super lucky with lottery.

The team doesnt suck, the power play sucks , we lack finishing... fixin the power play could go a long way for this team, i think that can be done with coaching. The pk should fix itself now that lindholm and manson are back.

If we can get back to 80%+ on pk, and puush pp to 15%... i think well be in contention for a playoff with the roster as is.
 

Kalv

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I think its more annoying seeing people act like were going to end up with a #1 pick, or the team flat out sucks. Were not going to get #1 pick with roster unless we get super lucky with lottery.

The team doesnt suck, the power play sucks , we lack finishing... fixin the power play could go a long way for this team, i think that can be done with coaching. The pk should fix itself now that lindholm and manson are back.

If we can get back to 80%+ on pk, and puush pp to 15%... i think well be in contention for a playoff with the roster as is.
Agreed.
Ever since the assistant coaches became known, I was skeptic. I don`t have problem with Eakins, but not sure the assistants are up to where they should, nothing personal against them, but we could do better.
 
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Exit Dose

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It's all good. We're on the same page. :thumbu:

I expected Steel and/or Terry to have a 40-50 point season this year. That was factored into my prediction that they would make the playoffs. It is disappointing that neither is doing so yet but hey, that's the way it goes. Predicting the future isn't an exact science.

I like the fact the team is night and day different from last year. I like the new approach to the game. I still hope that Steel and Terry both get to being 50 point players even if it is delayed. I think Gudbranson looks like a a solid bottom pair vet. He brings leadership, toughness and the ability to clear the crease which is currently sorely lacking on this team. I'd prefer him over Larsson or Guhle at this point in time and quite possibly for good.

This year is a learning year and management needs to get the most out of it. If they do it right I would expect that next year could be the start of a solid path forward.
I agree with everything here, but I will say that they should stick it out for the long haul with Larsson. It can take a while with players with his tool kit to make it work at the NHL level. It's hard to be a shutdown defenseman at this level.
 

JabbaJabba

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if steel, terry, and comtois don't develop the way they were expected to then this team is ******* for a long time

We need to be patient with the youngsters. There are a lot of promising signs from those players and they do look like they have an NHL career ahead of them. They need more time and need to gain muscles, especially Terry. We always expect rookies to be amazing right out of the gate but it takes a lot of time. Just look at Hughes and Kakko this year, neither have dominated but showed flashes thus far and they are considered to be more promising prospects than Steel, Terry and Comtois. So if it takes time for the better prospects to become relevant, it will take time for the lesser prospects as well.
 
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