Post-Game Talk: GAME #29 - Canucks 3 vs. Blues 2 Part II - "More TSN Coverage Please "

Bleach Clean

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Aug 9, 2006
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But I thought Garrison was terrible and a potential buy out candidate? Does this mean that maybe just maybe people should have some patience?


Nahh

Those posts need to be remembered. Next time a new acquisition is brought in and he hasn't had enough time to acclimatize to the system, people should think about that post before jumping on him. In a way, it highlights what not to do IMO.
 

Edo

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Seems like Bieksa is labouring out there, and in a perfect situation, he'd be resting. Mad respect to him for playing through it. Closely reaching Ohlund status in terms of fandom from my POV.

I'm beginning to think that adding another top 4 defensemen would do more for the team than another forward. Bringing back, let's say, Christian Ehrhoff, would make the team much better than a Steve Ott. There isn't a D pairing that has clicked with the Sedin's in the way that Edler/Ehrhoff did. Having Edler/Ehrhoff, Hamhuis/Bieksa, Garrison/Tanev would be :naughty:.
 

B-rock

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Those posts need to be remembered. Next time a new acquisition is brought in and he hasn't had enough time to acclimatize to the system, people should think about that post before jumping on him. In a way, it highlights what not to do IMO.

Hallelujah praise Jesus! It happens every year though and it seems no one learns. It's especially the case with d men. It takes them at least a month to get acclimatized to a new team. Obviously longer with injuries and no training camp.

The same can obviously be said about rookies. It takes them time to learn the NHL game.

But every year it's the same ol ***** about how this or that rookie will never be more than a 3rd or 4th liner. This year it's hansens turn to make them look silly. Hopefully next year Kassian will make them look foolish. He's coming along but there's an awful lot if posters that have him pegged as a lifelong plugger because he hasn't lit the world on fire in his first full NHL season.

Aaanyways. It looked like Edler was hitting a bit out there tonight for the first time in a long time. Wondering if he's feeling better or if the addition of Bieksa gives him a bit of swagger. That could explain that pairing a bit more.
 

orcatown

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Hate it when you PVR the game and just as you're about to watch it someone tells you the final score. Anyhow, per usual, just when every thing looks hopeless the team comes up with a win. A kind of redemption night for some players

The Good

Sedins - showed their mastery with the puck in this game and I also thought their effort in their own zone was better - especially after the first. Leadership of these players under appreciated. Swede leadership is always under-rated in this League.

Garrison - seems to me that Garrison is skating a lot better than earlier in the season. Seems to be getting to the puck much quicker and giving himself more time to make the easier play. Beginning of the year, he seemed to be in constant battles for the puck. Haven't seen as much of that lately

Hansen - just this side of being a star - still see some chance for him to approach Alfredsson status. Seems to be getting more confidence with the puck and is not so frantic with it. Needs to be with speed players

Schroeder - IMO by far is best game as a Canuck. Showed outstanding speed in chasing down players and in driving back the defense. Puck movement was excellent. There are going to ups and downs with this player but in this game he illustrated the potential he has more than at any other occasion I've seen.

Weise - the Canucks need to continue to put whatever they were putting in his water bottle tonite. Inspired effort in which he not only scored a beautiful goal but put very good pressure on the puck. Doubt that he can sustain this play but at least showed he had this level of play in him. Only compliant would be poor coverage on the PK but overall this was big step up in play for Wiese

Schneider - looked like the player from last year. Goals that went in were fluky. He stopped every thing he could and his rebound control was top drawer. First star in this game.

The Not so Good

Hamhuis - his mobility seems a lot less than usual. Probably playing hurt. Coverage issues again in his end and not really supporting the play very well.

Edler - maybe this is partly based on expectations but like to see him being more forceful in his play. Often isn't moving quickly enough to establish good defensive position and stay between his check and the goal. Also, you wonder were the imagination he use to show on the PP has gone. Very static and very predictable.


Other Points.

I don't think the Canucks tried to lay back in the third as much as St. Louis really pushed the play by moving their very mobile defense into the play. St. Louis does that and they give anyone problems. Canucks did not respond that badly and the goals allowed were more luck than anything else.

Time to realize that Kassian has been playing hurt all season. I think this has obviously effected his skating and play. I think we are only going to get an accurate idea of what Kassain can do once he has a full recovery from this injury.

Win tonight increased the dilemma concerning the Canuck future. On one hand you want the team to do well this year and make the playoffs. However, with the mounting injuries and the clear potential that the team might just be 1st round fodder, you wonder if it might be better to aim for a high lottery choice and prepare for next year. With a loss in this game the direction might have been clearer. As it is the looming trade line poses some diffcult decisions.
 

Pseudonymous*

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Hansen's play since he had the babies, has been great, well always been great but his ability to get it across the goal line. And its further proving why i said he has more upside than he has shown in the past in that recent poll.
 

StIllmatic

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Hate it when you PVR the game and just as you're about to watch it someone tells you the final score. Anyhow, per usual, just when every thing looks hopeless the team comes up with a win. A kind of redemption night for some players

The Good

Sedins - showed their mastery with the puck in this game and I also thought their effort in their own zone was better - especially after the first. Leadership of these players under appreciated. Swede leadership is always under-rated in this League.

______________


Garrison - seems to me that Garrison is skating a lot better than earlier in the season. Seems to be getting to the puck much quicker and giving himself more time to make the easier play. Beginning of the year, he seemed to be in constant battles for the puck. Haven't seen as much of that lately

Hansen - just this side of being a star - still see some chance for him to approach Alfredsson status. Seems to be getting more confidence with the puck and is not so frantic with it. Needs to be with speed players

Schroeder - IMO by far is best game as a Canuck. Showed outstanding speed in chasing down players and in driving back the defense. Puck movement was excellent. There are going to ups and downs with this player but in this game he illustrated the potential he has more than at any other occasion I've seen.

Weise - the Canucks need to continue to put whatever they were putting in his water bottle tonite. Inspired effort in which he not only scored a beautiful goal but put very good pressure on the puck. Doubt that he can sustain this play but at least showed he had this level of play in him. Only compliant would be poor coverage on the PK but overall this was big step up in play for Wiese

Schneider - looked like the player from last year. Goals that went in were fluky. He stopped every thing he could and his rebound control was top drawer. First star in this game.

The Not so Good

Hamhuis - his mobility seems a lot less than usual. Probably playing hurt. Coverage issues again in his end and not really supporting the play very well.

Edler - maybe this is partly based on expectations but like to see him being more forceful in his play. Often isn't moving quickly enough to establish good defensive position and stay between his check and the goal. Also, you wonder were the imagination he use to show on the PP has gone. Very static and very predictable.


Other Points.

I don't think the Canucks tried to lay back in the third as much as St. Louis really pushed the play by moving their very mobile defense into the play. St. Louis does that and they give anyone problems. Canucks did not respond that badly and the goals allowed were more luck than anything else.

Time to realize that Kassian has been playing hurt all season. I think this has obviously effected his skating and play. I think we are only going to get an accurate idea of what Kassain can do once he has a full recovery from this injury.

Win tonight increased the dilemma concerning the Canuck future. On one hand you want the team to do well this year and make the playoffs. However, with the mounting injuries and the clear potential that the team might just be 1st round fodder, you wonder if it might be better to aim for a high lottery choice and prepare for next year. With a loss in this game the direction might have been clearer. As it is the looming trade line poses some diffcult decisions.

Exactly what I'm thinking. He sat out most of training camp and now he's out again because of the back. I think he's been playing through his injury. I think Lapierre may also still have a bad groin still, but he's been better recently I would say. Not good but better.

I missed the third, but Garrison is so underrated. I experienced a huge argument with two of my friends earlier because they kept calling him trash. One of the friends, who watched most games, admitted he was "okay" recently. I honestly don't understand how anyone who has seen the last 15 games can say he's been bad. He's been our best D the last 15 or so games I would say. Such an underrated player, its frustrating. TSN and the media don't help the matter...
 

604

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Nov 1, 2011
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Finally got a chance to watch the game.

Honestly, I don't think the 1st was as bad as people were saying, I expected StL to be all over us but that wasn't really the case, they had the run of play but we had chances as well...just didn't put any on net.

We showed in the 2nd that we have the ability to finish if we can get the puck in space in scoring areas.

3rd, didn't like our period very much. We played solid but once you decide you are going to stop forechecking the other team will have more opportunities to get the bounces which is exactly what was happening. Good job killing the game off in the last few minutes though, that was great.
 

PG Canuck

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Didn't have a chance to see the last goal, or the last half of the third period really, but from what I saw, I liked. Schneider was terrific from what I watched, and stole the game early for us in the first period.

After Daniel scored, he had his swagger back, if not more, as he was putting the puck behind his back, between his legs, just fun to watch. Henrik's pass was nothing short of spectacular - sends it through two pairs of defenders legs, just ridiculous. I really take the Sedins for granted each and every game, and I'm sure 99.5% of our fanbase does as well.

Not happy to hear about the third period though. I don't understand the need to sit back to the point where we constantly blow two or even three goal leads. I don't even feel comfortable with those type of leads anymore because we go into full shutdown mode, get hemmed in our own zone, and eventually crack because we can't contain the waves of pressure coming at us. AV really needs to take a look in the mirror, and take responsibility for this - tired of him throwing out the same quote of "Well the opposition played us hard and tough blah blah blah".
 
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King of Anarchy

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Time to realize that Kassian has been playing hurt all season. I think this has obviously effected his skating and play. I think we are only going to get an accurate idea of what Kassain can do once he has a full recovery from this injury.

I suspect you're probably right. He just hasn't been the same player since the first few weeks of the season. (not just production, but he hasn't been as physical and he's been a step slower)
 

Teppo

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Mar 3, 2008
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I'm seeing this as a 3-0 win for us. Both of their goals were ****ing ridiculous. Wide shot bounces off a shoulder and in? Wide shot hits Tanev in the face and right onto a Blue's stick on the other side of the net?

That's the sort of luck we don't get, and we still closed it out nicely.

Shot totals just mean nothing to me right now. See... I don't know, our last 10 games for that.

Must have missed the goal against the Wild.
 

Barney Gumble

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Schroeder - IMO by far is best game as a Canuck. Showed outstanding speed in chasing down players and in driving back the defense. Puck movement was excellent. There are going to ups and downs with this player but in this game he illustrated the potential he has more than at any other occasion I've seen.
Now imagine if the coach had the patience to "stick things out" with said player (and I don't mean merely leave him on the roster playing with scrubs but leave him with the likes of Raymond/Hansen for a longer period of time). As long as the line isn't destroying us defensively; considering our depth situation down the middle - would that really be a horrible idea?

But that isn't AV's style. It might have worked for other players for him; but Schroeder isn't going to thrive with scrubs.

The Gingers carried this team tonight.
As they've done most/many nights this season (at least with respect to the forwards). As they should.

rated. I experienced a huge argument with two of my friends earlier because they kept calling him trash. One of the friends, who watched most games, admitted he was "okay" recently. I honestly don't understand how anyone who has seen the last 15 games can say he's been bad. He's been our best D the last 15 or so games I would say. Such an underrated player, its frustrating. TSN and the media don't help the matter...
That's nothing. I've read on another board comparing Garrison's contract as being awful to the point of "Jeff Finger like". That's how you know said poster hasn't followed the Canucks at all this season (granted, the way they've been playing, why would a non-Canuckfan bother; but still to make a comment like that without following the team is crazy).
 

Reign Nateo

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I've been pretty critical of Schroeder, but that was a very good game from him. He made a couple impressive back-checks and dat pass damn. Like that he drives the corners too. Vigneault knows how to get the best out of people despite what the fans seem to think. Demoting Schroeder is just part of the process. He needs to work as hard as he did last night EVERY night to be successful at this level. Some 4th line time and a demotion to the minors will send that message every time. Now it's up to Schroeder to be consistant and work hard every night, not Vigneault to hand him a top spot.

He should stick with Raymond-Hansen for a while imo though.
 

Jack Tripper

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just finished watching the replay, happy for the win of course but this was a goaltending win...schneider kept the canucks in the game in the first period when it could've easily gotten out of hand in a hurry and didn't get frustrated in the third period when fluke goals started going past him

lots of positives from the game as previously mentioned in the thread...the sedins, hansen, schroeder, schneider, and garrison all played fantastic games, and schroeder being able to keep up some consistency in that 2c role is going to be critical in the next month while kesler is out

i guess the biggest negative for me is that edler, hamhuis and bieksa continue to be shells of their former selves and their collective poor play has continued way too long, to the point whether you wonder if they are going to be able to pull it together at any point this season

and on the 3rd period...yeah, some credit goes to the blues but the canucks couldn't have been more disinterested in scoring a goal in that period, but as we all know it's how av likes to roll
 

WetcoastOrca

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OK now list the players that have had career years playing for Vigneault? Which list is longer?

Agreed. I could question some of AV's decisions this year but some of the criticism he receives is bordering on the ridiculous. People are blaming him for the fact that the Canucks have been sitting on leads. How about placing some of the blame on the players.
And if people are going to criticize his decisions how about giving him some creddit for some of the good ones. Most people wanted Raymond run out of town but AV continued to play him in the top 6 believing that he had some upside. Looks like he was right.
 

Barney Gumble

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OK now list the players that have had career years playing for Vigneault? Which list is longer?

Read my post above your first post on this page where I said "his method might work for some players...".

AV's problem is that he doesn't leave room for exceptions (except of course, if your name is Bieksa). You can't put all players through a single "cookie cutter" measurement. As I said before, Schroeder isn't going to thrive on a 4th liner role - a complete waste (especially since his FO ability is lacking). Raymond at least had some size over Schroeder (considering Raymond is hardly big - that says something) to be able to play in an offensive or defensive role.

And if people are going to criticize his decisions how about giving him some creddit for some of the good ones.
Can't give him credit for the Sedins since he himself admitted he doesn't "understand them" so he leaves them alone (though I suppose you can give him credit for that....). Most of the rest of the forwards (sans Kesler)? Gillis dealt him a bad hand so you can't blame AV for that.

Blueline? It's the deepest it's every been in Canuck history (and also in terms of health). Who are you going to give him credit for? Tanev? Maybe. Three of the top four is a gong show a number of nights (in their zone). Ballard? He's a $4+ million dollar guy that you can't trade right now. OK, so that's his buddy Bowness responsibility.
 

Tiranis

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People are blaming him for the fact that the Canucks have been sitting on leads. How about placing some of the blame on the players.

They're not the one shouting 'deep' every time we cross the red line. That rests pretty squarely on AV's shoulders. Several times he took guys off after a 15-20 second shift resulting in a loss of possession and another shift hemmed in our own zone.
 

WetcoastOrca

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They're not the one shouting 'deep' every time we cross the red line. That rests pretty squarely on AV's shoulders. Several times he took guys off after a 15-20 second shift resulting in a loss of possession and another shift hemmed in our own zone.

I guess we are seeing things differently. I see our defence and forwards running around in our own end and barely able to get the puck outside of our own blueline and then the opposition dumping it in and attacking all over again. By the time we get the puck out to center ice the line out there is exhausted and needs to dump it in for a line change. We have to be able to play better and more poised in our own zone when the other team cranks up the pressure when we get the lead. It not only happens in the third period when we are protecting the lead but also happens pretty much every time after we take the lead even early in the game. Watch the Detroit game when Burrows scores 6 seconds in and the same thing happened in Minny. We get pinned in and battle just to clear our zone. It's frustrating to watch.
 
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Barney Gumble

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Now if Kesler were healthy, then I'd feel different as there wouldn't be room to give Schroeder any kind of long leash. But we're awful down the middle after Hank & a guy like Ebbett certainly isn't going to be an upgrade over Schroeder (heck, even his FO ability stinks more than Schroeder!).
 

PhilMick

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May 20, 2009
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They're not the one shouting 'deep' every time we cross the red line. That rests pretty squarely on AV's shoulders. Several times he took guys off after a 15-20 second shift resulting in a loss of possession and another shift hemmed in our own zone.

:laugh: :facepalm: It's just so....boring.
 

WetcoastOrca

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Read my post above your first post on this page where I said "his method might work for some players...".

AV's problem is that he doesn't leave room for exceptions (except of course, if your name is Bieksa). You can't put all players through a single "cookie cutter" measurement. As I said before, Schroeder isn't going to thrive on a 4th liner role - a complete waste (especially since his FO ability is lacking). Raymond at least had some size over Schroeder (considering Raymond is hardly big - that says something) to be able to play in an offensive or defensive role.


Can't give him credit for the Sedins since he himself admitted he doesn't "understand them" so he leaves them alone (though I suppose you can give him credit for that....). Most of the rest of the forwards (sans Kesler)? Gillis dealt him a bad hand so you can't blame AV for that.

Blueline? It's the deepest it's every been in Canuck history (and also in terms of health). Who are you going to give him credit for? Tanev? Maybe. Three of the top four is a gong show a number of nights (in their zone). Ballard? He's a $4+ million dollar guy that you can't trade right now. OK, so that's his buddy Bowness responsibility.

The coach is the easy scapegoat when a team is struggling. Go to every team's board who goes through a tough patch. Heck, read the comments about Sutter on the LA board the year before or Julien in the playoffs before the Bruins won the cup.

I agree we have one of the deepest bluelines in the NHL. I guess the question is whether you place most of the blame on the players and their execution or on the coaching. I see too many poor decisions and missed assgnments by this group to blame it on coaching. AV's style is to give the players autonomy because they are a mature and seasoned group. I think it's going to be tough to change that style now with this group of players.
Anyways, I'm probably in the minority judging by most posts on here. And this probably isn't the thread to discuss this in any event so I'll leave it at that.
 

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