GDT: Game 29 - Battle for 1st in the Metro-Washington vs Columbus Dec. 8, 2018

Johansen2Foligno

CBJ Realest
Jan 2, 2015
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Gees. Ammo for everyone's confirmation bias in this one (mine included, most likely). Anyway, for all the season-long griping over the goalies and Wennberg and Werenski and the piss-poor special teams...

I can't shake that what really looks bad is the defense. I'm sure it would be easy for me to look up and see how it compares to previous years - and there seems to be a noticeable uptick in scoring league-wide this season - but the eyeball test is showing me poor structure and hopelessness on odd-man rushes.

Does this jive with anyone else's sense? What's the cause? What's the solution?

One thing I noticed is that the fifth line does not have a defense chant. How else are the players supposed to know?
 

Maylo

It never happened.
May 20, 2017
4,646
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Really?? Torts is the LEAST cliche coach in the NHL, if not all of pro sports.
Really. The least clishe presser came from Shaw when Torts was sick, that guy has subtance between his ears, Torts is just loud mouth, who apparently color blind or something, - Lars did a great job with D?!! What? And Shawsy has struggled with F?!
 
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Monk

Registered User
Feb 5, 2008
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Really. The least clishe presser came from Shaw when Torts was sick, that guy has subtance between his ears, Torts is just loud mouth, who apparently color blind or something, - Lars did a great job with D?!! What? And Shawsy has struggled with F?!

I wouldn't attribute too much of the on-ice result to coaching (in this example, at least). Too many other factors at play. I have no problem believing what he's saying is true. And he specifically says he's (Torts) ultimately the one to blame in other places, which I also think is true.
 

Viqsi

"that chick from Ohio"
Oct 5, 2007
53,660
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Really. The least clishe presser came from Shaw when Torts was sick, that guy has subtance between his ears, Torts is just loud mouth, who apparently color blind or something, - Lars did a great job with D?!! What? And Shawsy has struggled with F?!
Or he's trying to have the media focus on the positive where there was negative.
 

major major

Registered User
Feb 18, 2013
14,598
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Gees. Ammo for everyone's confirmation bias in this one (mine included, most likely). Anyway, for all the season-long griping over the goalies and Wennberg and Werenski and the piss-poor special teams...

I can't shake that what really looks bad is the defense. I'm sure it would be easy for me to look up and see how it compares to previous years - and there seems to be a noticeable uptick in scoring league-wide this season - but the eyeball test is showing me poor structure and hopelessness on odd-man rushes.

Does this jive with anyone else's sense? What's the cause? What's the solution?

"For all the griping about ... Werenski .... what really looks bad is the defense".

I think it's mostly Werenski. I did the analysis in the info thread in case you missed it. Goals against for the team is fine, no higher than last year, when Werenski and Dubois are not on the ice.
 

Double-Shift Lasse

Just post better
Dec 22, 2004
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"For all the griping about ... Werenski .... what really looks bad is the defense".

I think it's mostly Werenski. I did the analysis in the info thread in case you missed it. Goals against for the team is fine, no higher than last year, when Werenski and Dubois are not on the ice.

Thanks for this. I admitted to not looking at the stats, so I'm in no way disputing what you're saying. But everything happening in the d zone looks poor to me right now, on everyone's part, Seth to Harry, Dubois to Dubi.

I will be interesting if the team can begin to look better integrated (to me, anyway?) from structure and execution standpoint with the switchback.
 

MoeBartoli

Checkers-to-Jackets
Jan 12, 2011
13,944
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It is confusing. To my way of thinking, the language Torts used for each should be reversed. You know, like the decision to switch up coaching responsibilities.
The club is on its way to having the most goals in a season (despite an only occasionally functional Larson PP) and the club on pace to give up more goals than can be remembered, with shoody D structure (and leaky goalie play)......I'm with you DSL.

The only thing I can think goes back to the neutral zone and transition comments from Torts at the time the change was made when he justified the switch as a chance for Shaw to use his defensive knowledge to improve this part of the forwards' play. I'd agree it's been a weakness this season, leading to the goalies being left hung out to dry - but it was likewise before the switch.
 

Double-Shift Lasse

Just post better
Dec 22, 2004
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"For all the griping about ... Werenski .... what really looks bad is the defense".

I think it's mostly Werenski. I did the analysis in the info thread in case you missed it. Goals against for the team is fine, no higher than last year, when Werenski and Dubois are not on the ice.

Also, I've indulged this discussion for a page or so now but can we please get back to the important point of my posting an assessment/inquiry about the D here and a coaching change being announced within the hour?
 

major major

Registered User
Feb 18, 2013
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a +3 playing against top lines in the league, as a second year player, is awful ?

Meanwhile , Wennberg the great defensive forward (playing against lower competition) is -3.

+/- is not a defensive stat, it's a combination of an offensive stat with a defensive stat.

Wennberg and Dubois both have very high goals against, out of character for Wennberg. You might say that at least in Dubois' case his line scores just as many as they give up. But that's true for the team as a whole - they've scored 100 and given up 100, and we are sitting here complaining about something.

And for good reason. The room for improvement on this team is getting goals against down, which is really mostly an issue for a few players. Wennberg will get back to normal, perhaps once free from Dubinsky. Dubois and Werenski need to be taught to play better defense and in the meantime it wouldn't hurt to avoid putting them out there with each other (the goals against are ridiculously high when the two youngins are both on the ice).
 

major major

Registered User
Feb 18, 2013
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Thanks for this. I admitted to not looking at the stats, so I'm in no way disputing what you're saying. But everything happening in the d zone looks poor to me right now, on everyone's part, Seth to Harry, Dubois to Dubi.

I will be interesting if the team can begin to look better integrated (to me, anyway?) from structure and execution standpoint with the switchback.

Looking at the stats might surprise you. We have 5 D with normal goals against numbers, and two forward lines (Foligno-Jenner-Anderson and Sedlak-Nash-Hannikainen) with strong goals against numbers. It's Werenski and the other two forward lines that account for 100% of the excess goals against.

The structure hasn't been an issue for most of the team.
 
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Viqsi

"that chick from Ohio"
Oct 5, 2007
53,660
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40N 83W (approx)
Also, I've indulged this discussion for a page or so now but can we please get back to the important point of my posting an assessment/inquiry about the D here and a coaching change being announced within the hour?
It's a coincidence. Your opinions don't actually matter that much.

Have a nice day! :thumbu:
 

Double-Shift Lasse

Just post better
Dec 22, 2004
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Looking at the stats might surprise you. We have 5 D with normal goals against numbers, and two forward lines (Foligno-Jenner-Anderson and Sedlak-Nash-Hannikainen) with strong goals against numbers. It's Werenski and the other two forward lines that account for 100% of the excess goals against.

The structure hasn't been an issue for most of the team.

True, but in this case, it wasn't so much an opinion as a question, one which - apparently - prompted management to take immediate action.
 

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