GDT: Game 27 | Senators @ Flames | Tkachuk v Tkachuk Edition | Sat. Nov 30th 7:00PM | SN, TVAS

[Sweatred]

Why on earth would you conclude from my post that rookie fatigue isn't a thing? I said that after only playing 8 games this month playing 3rd line minutes and being 21 years of age, he is not going to be fatigued. He's not coming straight from college, he's played junior hockey and a season in the AHL. Its obviously punitive.

He's not really going to learn that there are consequences. He's watching guys like Boro and Hainsey make horrendous gaffes in back to backs with nothing being done. He's just learning that there is no logic or fairness in the coaching decisions, just pure favouritism.

This isn't a competitive team, there's no reason for rookies not to get more rope to make mistakes. Just tell em what they did wrong then throw em out for their next shift. This is garbage, which is par for this organization.

You mentioned there “is not fatigue factor here”. My point was the Sens don’t want to allow the players to be fatigued. You can’t do that by waiting for them to hit the wall and than trying to manage/rest them. To avoid getting fatigued you increase the amount of rest so fatigue never sets in. A minor injury or learning opportunity (bad game) are logically excellent opportunities to build that rest in.

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

You mentioned there “is not fatigue factor here”. My point was the Sens don’t want to allow the players to be fatigued. You can’t do that by waiting for them to hit the wall and than trying to manage/rest them. To avoid getting fatigued you increase the amount of rest so fatigue never sets in. A minor injury or learning opportunity (bad game) are logically excellent opportunities to build that rest in.

Yes, I think I understand the spin you've decided to put on this decision by the team. You're repeating yourself over and over.

I have little tolerance for this kind of bsing. You can go deflect elsewhere.

The Kids are Healthy Scratched

 

[Sweatred]

Yes, I think I understand the spin you've decided to put on this decision by the team. You're repeating yourself over and over.

I have little tolerance for this kind of bsing. You can go deflect elsewhere.

The Kids are Healthy Scratched

Ha ! It isn’t spin ... it just isn’t aligned with your single view of play=develop / no play= no development . There is a lot more to developing. Apparently the coaching staff disagrees with you too...

 

[Cosmix]

Scratching a kid for one mistake is how you get them to hold their stick tighter and play tentative. There's plenty of mediocre players on this team who could use a trip to the rafters before Logan.

I understand your point and would discuss the issue with Logan before doing that but there may be other things going on such as minor injuries, etc. Perhaps the coaches have already spoken with Logan about his D skills and the points made were not heard and heeded.

 

[OD99]

Why on earth would you conclude from my post that rookie fatigue isn't a thing? I said that after only playing 8 games this month playing 3rd line minutes and being 21 years of age, he is not going to be fatigued. He's not coming straight from college, he's played junior hockey and a season in the AHL. Its obviously punitive.

He's not really going to learn that there are consequences. He's watching guys like Boro and Hainsey make horrendous gaffes in back to backs with nothing being done. He's just learning that there is no logic or fairness in the coaching decisions, just pure favouritism.

This isn't a competitive team, there's no reason for rookies not to get more rope to make mistakes. Just tell em what they did wrong then throw em out for their next shift. This is garbage, which is par for this organization.

I agree with your first part as I don't think it was just rest due to fatigue.

Disagree with your 2nd point as a lack of effort is different than simply making a mistake. To me Brown was not engaged and was showing the warning signs of his game that we have all seen to date - a spot in the press box was the right call for me.

The main tool a coach has is playing time and using the old adage of 2 wrongs don't make a right I don't really care if vets get away with bad plays - the kids shouldn't get away with it just because.

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

I agree with your first part as I don't think it was just rest due to fatigue.

Disagree with your 2nd point as a lack of effort is different than simply making a mistake. To me Brown was not engaged and was showing the warning signs of his game that we have all seen to date - a spot in the press box was the right call for me.

The main tool a coach has is playing time and using the old adage of 2 wrongs don't make a right I don't really care if vets get away with bad plays - the kids shouldn't get away with it just because.

I totally disagree. If you can't apply the same kind of accountability across the board, its meaningless. Everyone sees it and knows how hollow and empty the gesture is. Smith is just another husk of coach we've come accustomed to. He's the same as all the rest. Empty words, ego, stubborn, dated strategies etc. Our young guys will have to succeed in spite of him like others before.

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

. Smith is just another husk of coach we've come accustomed to. He's the same as all the rest. Empty words, ego, stubborn, dated strategies etc. Our young guys will have to succeed in spite of him like others before.

Wow. I thought it was too early to judge him.

Let me ask you this, what coach would you take if we could have any in the NHL today?

 

[TheDebater]

I totally disagree. If you can't apply the same kind of accountability across the board, its meaningless. Everyone sees it and knows how hollow and empty the gesture is. Smith is just another husk of coach we've come accustomed to. He's the same as all the rest. Empty words, ego, stubborn, dated strategies etc. Our young guys will have to succeed in spite of him like others before.

Over-reacting.

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

Wow. I thought it was too early to judge him.

Let me ask you this, what coach would you take if we could have any in the NHL today?

Any coach? I'd take Barry Trotz or Jon Cooper.

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

Over-reacting.

Just because it's a tough pill to swallow, doesn't mean its wrong. This is just reacting to what's in front of us. Its okay to call a spade a spade.

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

Just because it's a tough pill to swallow, doesn't mean its wrong. This is just reacting to what's in front of us. Its okay to call a spade a spade.

A spade is a spade, indeed. Maybe preface your opinion with "I think".

Jury is still not out out on DJ Jazzy Smith yet. So far, so good. He is a rookie coach, it can go either way.

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

A spade is a spade, indeed. Maybe preface your opinion with "I think".

Jury is still not out out on DJ Jazzy Smith yet. So far, so good. He is a rookie coach, it can go either way.

I do not define this as good. My standards are clearly different. The team has a 9.3% conversion rate on the PP. That's unacceptable for a NHL team, that would be the worst PP in over 20 years of NHL hockey.

I like the sitting of Ryan and Boedker, but that's about it. He's using Connor Brown like he's Nathan MacKinnon, making bad decisions with defensive pairings, let Nilsson get absolutely killed on Friday for no reason and now starting this nonsense with Logan Brown.

Smith is better than Boucher because he doesn't deploy a dinosaur defensive system but he's basically the same as the rest. He'll do for the next 2 years before he's fired but I'm still gonna point out the dumb things he's doing. The red flags are everywhere and it started with the asinine decision to vouch for Zaitsev who is just awful.

 

[aragorn]

I understand your point and would discuss the issue with Logan before doing that but there may be other things going on such as minor injuries, etc. Perhaps the coaches have already spoken with Logan about his D skills and the points made were not heard and heeded.

Agreed. I think Logan Brown was scratched because he let his man get by him for a goal against in the game before & deservedly so, he cost the team a goal. This is how young guys learn the severity of making a mistake at the NHL level where there is so much parity in the league & any team can beat you on any night because of one small mistake. IMO it's a learning moment for Logan.

I think one of the big reasons that the PP sucks is because Ottawa's defence sucks & it's really only Chabot who is contributing on defence. Most of Ottawa's defenders can barely get the puck to the net other than Chabot & don't seem able to make plays. I think Ottawa really misses a player like Wolanin who added a speed dimension that this defence misses other than Chabot again.

Brannstrom looks slow, plays soft & small & has yet to add any offence to his game or this team. Zaitsev is definitely not an offensive defenceman & is just okay. Hainsley looks like he is passed his best before date & although DeMello is playing well enough he's not contributing offensively at all either. The most unexpected defenceman who is contributing a little offensively is Boro whose real purpose is to defend well, hit hard, block shots & clear the front of the net & he is playing great given his limited offensive skill set. I think this defence would look much different with Wolanin in their lineup.

 

[DrEasy]

Why on earth would you conclude from my post that rookie fatigue isn't a thing? I said that after only playing 8 games this month playing 3rd line minutes and being 21 years of age, he is not going to be fatigued. He's not coming straight from college, he's played junior hockey and a season in the AHL. Its obviously punitive.

He's not really going to learn that there are consequences. He's watching guys like Boro and Hainsey make horrendous gaffes in back to backs with nothing being done. He's just learning that there is no logic or fairness in the coaching decisions, just pure favouritism.

This isn't a competitive team, there's no reason for rookies not to get more rope to make mistakes. Just tell em what they did wrong then throw em out for their next shift. This is garbage, which is par for this organization.

Hainsey's mistake was a physical mistake. Hainsey's probably making the right decisions just sucking at execution. Boro is probably doing what they're asking him to do and is all he's capable to do. Benching them wouldn't affect what they do the next game. Sure, ideally neither is in the line-up ever but for that we need to have better defensemen who can take their place. Hopefully we have higher expectations of L. Brown.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Funny take considering that it’s well documented how well liked Smith is by young players. You are basically the only person even mentioning Ego, stubbornness, etc... Like your take on BT, this take looks bad from day one.

Watching how hard the guys are playing, and how effective the effort based systems like the forecheck are, is a nice testament to the coach and a players buying in and working together.

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

Funny take considering that it’s well documented how well liked Smith is by young players. You are basically the only person even mentioning Ego, stubbornness, etc... Like your take on BT, this take looks bad from day one.

Watching how hard the guys are playing, and how effective the effort based systems like the forecheck are, is a nice testament to the coach and a players buying in and working together.

If you think Smith is a good coach then that just kinda hammers home my point. Always easy money betting against you.

 

[TheDebater]

Just because it's a tough pill to swallow, doesn't mean its wrong. This is just reacting to what's in front of us. Its okay to call a spade a spade.

Give Smith credit. He has made the tough decisions but they have been the correct decisions. Healthy scratching Bobby Ryan takes courage and he did it, sitting your highest paid player is very controversial. Same with Boedker.

Then for basically two months people here complained about his overplaying Ennis, accusing him of "Leafs favourtism" when it was clear Ennis was one of the hardest working players every game and although lacking in skill, Smith rewarded the effort and set a precedent for other players to follow. Now look at how some members are praising Ennis, in this very thread actually.

Another example is Nick Paul, who was tapering on the edge of complete bust of a player yet suddenly has found a role with this team, coincidence? Same goes for Duclair, admittedly he played well under Boucher too, but he has taken his game to another level this season and has been given enough rope to play his game and become a useful player.

My "over-reacting" comment was due to you completely ignoring all the good Smith has done this season, simply due to some self constructed mental formula that you created as a standard for how young players should be treated in the NHL. It is simply an opinion, not a fact.

 

[Ice-Tray]

If you think Smith is a good coach then that just kinda hammers home my point. Always easy money betting against you.

Forget it, SOA said it in a far better way.

Thanks for sharing your particular perspective, I think you’re wrong, but whatever.

 

[SensontheRush]

I totally disagree. If you can't apply the same kind of accountability across the board, its meaningless. Everyone sees it and knows how hollow and empty the gesture is. Smith is just another husk of coach we've come accustomed to. He's the same as all the rest. Empty words, ego, stubborn, dated strategies etc. Our young guys will have to succeed in spite of him like others before.

......yeh no.

He's scratched Boedker pretty much the entire season, and Ryan got scratched a couple of times before he left the team to seek assistance.

Duclair caused the EN goal last night, and yet Smith put him back out on the very next shift.

You probably see all these things in him because it resonates with your own ego.

 

[Ice-Tray]

......yeh no.

He's scratched Boedker pretty much the entire season, and Ryan got scratched a couple of times before he left the team to seek assistance.

Duclair caused the EN goal last night, and yet Smith put him back out on the very next shift.

You probably see all these things in him because it resonates with your own ego.

Pretty much nailed it.

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

Give Smith credit. He has made the tough decisions but they have been the correct decisions. Healthy scratching Bobby Ryan takes courage and he did it, sitting your highest paid player is very controversial. Same with Boedker.

Then for basically two months people here complained about his overplaying Ennis, accusing him of "Leafs favourtism" when it was clear Ennis was one of the hardest working players every game and although lacking in skill, Smith rewarded the effort and set a precedent for other players to follow. Now look at how some members are praising Ennis, in this very thread actually.

Another example is Nick Paul, who was tapering on the edge of complete bust of a player yet suddenly has found a role with this team, coincidence? Same goes for Duclair, admittedly he played well under Boucher too, but he has taken his game to another level this season and has been given enough rope to play his game and become a useful player.

My "over-reacting" comment was due to you completely ignoring all the good Smith has done this season, simply due to some self constructed mental formula that you created as a standard for how young players should be treated in the NHL. It is simply an opinion, not a fact.

I literally gave him credit for sitting Boedker and Ryan. Try actually reading the posts before hitting reply. It really didn't take any kind of courage, it was a no brainer decision. Sitting the PILLSbury doughboy is something everyone agrees with. He was a terrible example for the kids on and off the ice. There is no controversy here at all.

If you think Ennis has "no skill" you really don't know the player. Really weird to claim this is some triumph when Ennis has been a fixture on that historically bad PP. His inclusion there and the PP is an objective failure of DJ Smith.

 

[OD99]

I totally disagree. If you can't apply the same kind of accountability across the board, its meaningless. Everyone sees it and knows how hollow and empty the gesture is. Smith is just another husk of coach we've come accustomed to. He's the same as all the rest. Empty words, ego, stubborn, dated strategies etc. Our young guys will have to succeed in spite of him like others before.

That's not reality.

So we sit Hainsey and Boro then sit Goul and ? Is added to replace them...then we sit????

Reality is proven veterans in any facet of life get the benefit of the doubt because they have proven to be good professionals.

Rookies in any job have to prove themselves.

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

That's not reality.

So we sit Hainsey and Boro then sit Goul and ? Is added to replace them...then we sit????

Reality is proven veterans in any facet of life get the benefit of the doubt because they have proven to be good professionals.

Rookies in any job have to prove themselves.

Boro and Hainsey have in no way shape or form proven to be good professionals for many years now. Boro has always been one of the worst players in the NHL and Hainsey has been one for 2 or 3 years.

That's not benefit of the doubt, its idiocy.

 

[TheDebater]

I literally gave him credit for sitting Boedker and Ryan. Try actually reading the posts before hitting reply. It really didn't take any kind of courage, it was a no brainer decision. Sitting the PILLSbury doughboy is something everyone agrees with. He was a terrible example for the kids on and off the ice. There is no controversy here at all.

If you think Ennis has "no skill" you really don't know the player. Really weird to claim this is some triumph when Ennis has been a fixture on that historically bad PP. His inclusion there and the PP is an objective failure of DJ Smith.

I do not want to sit here and argue semantics based on my definition of "skill" but Ennis' 34 goals and 75 points over the past 225 games (5 seasons) does not scream "skilled". He is a feisty player, he is fast and hard working, but that is pretty much where it ends in terms of positive endearment for a hockey player. As a comparable, and since you brought up how terrible he is, Boedker has 32 goals and 99 points over the past 232 games played (or three seasons).

Imagine that, actually I also included Boedker's 1 point in 6 games this season so if you remove that, Boedker has almost the same goals and more points in one less game, over 3 seasons, compared to 5 seasons for Ennis including his 6 goals and 11 points this year.

So what is the catch? Is Ennis' skill the reason why DJ Smith favours him over Boedker, or is it simply that Smith has set the bar high when it comes to what type of player he wants infront of him every game?

P.S,

Search my post history regarding Ennis (or for those who are unfortunate enough to pay attention to my posts) and you will find I was one of a handful of people who defended and praised Ennis so far this season, so I do not want this post to appear that I am disgracing him as a player.

 

[L'Aveuglette]

I understand your point and would discuss the issue with Logan before doing that but there may be other things going on such as minor injuries, etc. Perhaps the coaches have already spoken with Logan about his D skills and the points made were not heard and heeded.

Logan's defensive play has been fine. The few mistakes he made in Minny were outliers. That's the point. Overall he's been very very good for a rookie and considering the lack of talent on this team, scratching him over a bunch of scrubs is misguided.