Post-Game Talk: GAME #25 - Canucks @ Blue Jackets

[Aphid Attraction]

Regarding the spinorama, it's actually specified as allowable in the rules:

http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=26308

"The spin-o-rama type move where the player completes a 360° turn as he approaches the goal, shall be permitted as this involves continuous motion."

So a goal can be disallowed for to too much spin when going past the 360

 

[quat]

My reaction to this game.

Man, this is one disturbing image.

 

[Hank4Hart]

How is it that Bobrovsky's eye gets hurt when he is high sticked with a full mask on?

The stick blade can fit through a cat-eye cage and make contact with the goalie's eye/facial area.

In fact, that is why cat-eye cages aren't allowed in any leagues besides the NHL and AHL.

It all started when Drew MacIntyre got an eye injury while playing in juniors and decided to sue the QMJHL over his injury. So after that debacle minor hockey associations basically decided that all goalies needed to wear a certified cage so that the league doesn't have to be responsible for any liabilities

 

[mossey3535]

I agree, and i am a big schneider fan, its just a misconception from canuck fans that we should get rid of him because he would fetch a ransom, he is not viewed by other teams as a proven number 1 yet, i do believe he will be in time, but right now i dont think he will fetch what many fans think.

Well what's a ransom? They got a 1st and 2nd for Varlamov, I'd expect Schneids to get at least that.

 

[me2]

Well maybe it stopped or maybe it was travelling extremely, extremely slowly. Either way if it stopped it was for such a tiny time the NHL probably doesn't want to open that kettle of fish.

Then again on a continent that's drifting, on a planet he spinning, on an orbit around a Sun the at is rotating around in the arm of a galaxy that's in an expanding universe is any puck really stationary?

 

[Bougieman]

Watched it 8 times and still can't see where that puck stopped, even on the slow motion replay where you would think that would be obvious. It moves very slow at one point... but..?

 

[mossey3535]

Basically this CLB game showed us what we already knew.

If the Canucks play with fire and effort with the current system, they can dominate possession and zone time but still struggle to generate offense. Unfortunately in our current state, the inevitable pushback from the other team (in the third period) shows that we still have serious problems with defensive execution - which unfortunately is probably due to the other part of our system.

I'm surprised at the ES scoring chance stats, are they broken down by period? I thought we had a lot of jump and were generating plenty of chances in the first two periods. Although many of those weren't necessarily quality shots, which is a problem we've had for awhile now.

 

[Derp Kassian]

Basically this CLB game showed us what we already knew.

If the Canucks play with fire and effort with the current system, they can dominate possession and zone time but still struggle to generate offense. Unfortunately in our current state, the inevitable pushback from the other team (in the third period) shows that we still have serious problems with defensive execution - which unfortunately is probably due to the other part of our system.

I'm surprised at the ES scoring chance stats, are they broken down by period? I thought we had a lot of jump and were generating plenty of chances in the first two periods. Although many of those weren't necessarily quality shots, which is a problem we've had for awhile now.

The thing fans have to fear is Gillis thinking the finishing/goal scoring will improve with just Kesler himself back. They can dominate possession all they want but until they get another goal scorer type or Booth/Mayray/Higgins put up goals consistently this team isn't a contender. Desperately need another centre too.

 

[Orca Smash]

Well what's a ransom? They got a 1st and 2nd for Varlamov, I'd expect Schneids to get at least that.

I am a big fan of cory and actually dont think we trade him unless we absolutely have to and nobody will touch lou. But alot of people will bring up halak as well and we all know what he fetched, actually you can discuss on the main boards varlamov worth vs schneider right now, be prepared to be disappointed and angry, alot of fans of other teams at this moment are arguing reasons why schneider will not even fetch what varlamov did. Given the goalie market today and the amount of goalies coming out of the woodwork and consider the worth of a 1st and 2nd in a deep draft for schneider, I will gladly admit i was mistaken if we can fetch that and more.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1373019&highlight=schneider&page=1

I am no proponent of discussing trades on hfboards and i am not saying they are spot on in assessing value either, but i also feel it is more reliable then our own fan base deciding our own players worth. And its not much.. Fans of other teams all echo the statement they have not seen him handle a full workload and he barely has played any playoff games, and his worth is that of an unproven but promising starter who is already getting up in age for his amount of experience, and a 4 million cap hit. A lot of us like all fan bases assume we can get more for people then we actually can and cory being one of the worst since darren dreger speculated over a year ago gillis would get offers that stop him in his tracks. Corys worth took off from that vague statement among vc fans. I think if we look to move cory at the deadline to address some needs, the worth of an unproven number 1 goalie to buyers trying to get into playoffs and one who has little playoff experience... he simply wont be an extremely hot commodity among buyers at the deadline. The off season might be a different story...imo. But if we give the ball to lou, and get bounced and cory hardly plays again, his worth is not going to be high heading into the off season either as he will be 27 going on 28 already with very little experience to show for it.

A lot of fans see someone like bernier as a safer option then someone like cory because he also has high but unproven number 1 potential, but is also cheaper, easier to fit under the new cap system, and younger. And no i dont think bernier is as good as schneider right now but I understand where they are coming from to, nobody has seen if cory can handle the workload of a number 1 yet and he is already 27 with a 4 million cap hit... thus the asking price needs to make sense for the risk involved.

 

[StringerBell]

Well maybe it stopped or maybe it was travelling extremely, extremely slowly. Either way if it stopped it was for such a tiny time the NHL probably doesn't want to open that kettle of fish.

Then again on a continent that's drifting, on a planet he spinning, on an orbit around a Sun the at is rotating around in the arm of a galaxy that's in an expanding universe is any puck really stationary?

It's always making forward progress through the dimension of time. Checkmate, anti-goal supporters.

This is of course assuming it's not traveling at light speed

 

[absolute garbage]

- Burrows, Raymond and the 4th line are really struggling. Burrows looking very sluggish, not sure what's going on there. Not skating or handling the puck very well. Loses way more battles than usual.

- Raymond once again not accomplishing anything against these tight checking playoff type teams; not enough time or space for him to skate around and hang on the puck. Too small, too weak, doesn't win many battles to effectively play this grinding type of hockey.

- Weise, Sestito and Lapierre are all playing like crap. Zero puck management, they are just scrambling all over the place. Sestito got benched after icing the puck with very little pressure.

+ Booth and Kassian had again strong games. Booth is skating and working like crazy and playing very physical. Kassian is skating well and playing physical too. Both got some good hits in. A bit better puck management and a proper center and they would start scoring.

+ Edler was a beast. Very strong in battles, took control of the play and made solid plays with the puck. His best game in a long time. Garrison was very good too. He has really improved his anticipation and puck retrieval as he has got more familiar with the team. Doesn't give opposition forwards much room to work with. Tanev and Hamhuis were solid, it's blatant though that Hamhuis is not the answer to PP struggles.

+ Luongo was very good, better than Schneider recently. I'd assume he has the ball now. It's up to him to run with it.

 

[604]

The thing fans have to fear is Gillis thinking the finishing/goal scoring will improve with just Kesler himself back. They can dominate possession all they want but until they get another goal scorer type or Booth/Mayray/Higgins put up goals consistently this team isn't a contender. Desperately need another centre too.

Our issue is actually NHL level setup guys up front IMO.

Guys we have that are capable of scoring 20 goals are: D. Sedin, Kesler, Booth, H. Sedin, Higgins, Raymond (once, on pace this year), Hansen (on pace this year).

Our only guys to have recorded 30 assist (what I consider an equivalent point) are: D. Sedin, H. Sedin, Kesler, and Burrows (once).

The top line is obviously getting'er done but with Kesler out, we don't even have one other guy on another line that has shown he can put up top 6 level assists in the NHL. In contrast, we have four other guys that have shown they can chip in a top 6 level amount of goals if put in the right situation.

Adding a guy like Gagne, Hemsky, Tanguay, Hudler, Hodgson, Ennis, Stastny, Brassard, Roy, Rebeiro, Fleischmann, Versteeg, Boyes, Nielsen, Boedker, or Purcell. Might make a big difference in getting a guy like Booth or Higgins scoring goals again...obviously these guys have different cons or they wouldn't be on the list at all.

 

[604]

3) It's not a bad trade, just for whatever reason it takes forever to integrate a rookie completely into our system if AV decides he doesn't like his game. Say compared to Buffalo where Hodgson has been given every opportunity to succeed.

Keep in mind that Buffalo has a very high payroll, similar expectations to us and are currently way out of the playoffs.

Winning games for both Buffalo and Vancouver takes precedence over developing players. There is a way to bring guys in slowly that makes sense and can help accomplish both and both teams are trying to do that.

 

[tantalum]

A few thoughts....

Burrows is terrible right now.

LaPierre is terrible right now and needs to be moved to the wing.

Alberts is terrible.

Barker wasn't the worst D-man thanks to Alberts.

Raymond goal was borderline but given the whole shootout is purely for entertainment purposes you can pretty get away with anything short of going for the rebound.

Kassian has played over 12 minutes each of the last 6 games. Over 15 minutes the last 3. The numbers aren't there but his play from the third line has been fine. Not spectacular but fine. I know people will point o the goal as being his fault. Perhaps, but that was quite simply a terrible rebound. If AV is prepared to continue giving 12+ minutes a night to him he should remain up. Certainly there are far bigger concerns than Kassian. His hit may have been late, but it was clean. A 2 minute penalty is likely the correct call. In all honesty the hits to Calvert (I think) by Booth and Letestu by Kassian are the kinds of hits I want teams worrying about when they play the canucks.

 

[ruiner]

Our only guys to have recorded 30 assist (what I consider an equivalent point) are: D. Sedin, H. Sedin, Kesler, and Burrows (once).

Not to mention that even if Kesler were back he won't pass anymore.

The fact that no one besides Malhotra has been able to win a faceoff this year isn't helping either, especially now that he's gone.

 

[ChilliBilly]

It's always making forward progress through the dimension of time. Checkmate, anti-goal supporters.

This is of course assuming it's not traveling at light speed

Wrong. There were times in that game where time stood still. Sorry.

 

[Eddy Punch Clock]

Wrong. There were times in that game where time stood still. Sorry.

That game was so slow I'm still watching it.

Hope we win.

 

[mossey3535]

I am a big fan of cory and actually dont think we trade him unless we absolutely have to and nobody will touch lou. But alot of people will bring up halak as well and we all know what he fetched, actually you can discuss on the main boards varlamov worth vs schneider right now, be prepared to be disappointed and angry, alot of fans of other teams at this moment are arguing reasons why schneider will not even fetch what varlamov did. Given the goalie market today and the amount of goalies coming out of the woodwork and consider the worth of a 1st and 2nd in a deep draft for schneider, I will gladly admit i was mistaken if we can fetch that and more.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1373019&highlight=schneider&page=1

I am no proponent of discussing trades on hfboards and i am not saying they are spot on in assessing value either, but i also feel it is more reliable then our own fan base deciding our own players worth. And its not much.. Fans of other teams all echo the statement they have not seen him handle a full workload and he barely has played any playoff games, and his worth is that of an unproven but promising starter who is already getting up in age for his amount of experience, and a 4 million cap hit. A lot of us like all fan bases assume we can get more for people then we actually can and cory being one of the worst since darren dreger speculated over a year ago gillis would get offers that stop him in his tracks. Corys worth took off from that vague statement among vc fans. I think if we look to move cory at the deadline to address some needs, the worth of an unproven number 1 goalie to buyers trying to get into playoffs and one who has little playoff experience... he simply wont be an extremely hot commodity among buyers at the deadline. The off season might be a different story...imo. But if we give the ball to lou, and get bounced and cory hardly plays again, his worth is not going to be high heading into the off season either as he will be 27 going on 28 already with very little experience to show for it.

A lot of fans see someone like bernier as a safer option then someone like cory because he also has high but unproven number 1 potential, but is also cheaper, easier to fit under the new cap system, and younger. And no i dont think bernier is as good as schneider right now but I understand where they are coming from to, nobody has seen if cory can handle the workload of a number 1 yet and he is already 27 with a 4 million cap hit... thus the asking price needs to make sense for the risk involved.

I'm sorry Orca, but I completely disagree. That thread has some terrible arguments in it. I very closely watch the other goalies in the league as much as I can, and I don't think I'm overrating him. If anything I'm saying he's worth only picks unlike that thread where half the guys think we're getting a ROY candidate, AND a roster player PLUS a 1st.

Also if the NHL has proven anything over the years, it's that someone somewhere bites on 'potential' and bites hard.

If a 2nd + 2nd rate prospect was the most that could be gotten for Schneids and/or Luongo, the deal would have been done already.

The problem is that people assume that an offer is made and then boom the deal is done. What is more likely is that incremental offers have already come somewhat close to Gillis' expectations (which is at least a 1st) before the market dried up.

And there is a market, trust me. The comparisons to Varlamov (who was coming off only ONE >.920 season EVER compared to Schneider playing TWO straight seasons of it and still maintaining a .910 despite being admittedly disappointing this year are enough to kill that thread's credibility for me. I also love how they forgot the Caps were a dominant team during that time and he still couldn't beat out Neuvirth for the starters job for more than 30 games.

I mean Dubnyk's name should never be brought up in the same breath as Schneider's. All you have to do is watch a game where Dubnyk plays - there is and has never been anything dominant about him. But then again, that poster is an Oiler's fan.

 

[biturbo19]

Our issue is actually NHL level setup guys up front IMO.

Guys we have that are capable of scoring 20 goals are: D. Sedin, Kesler, Booth, H. Sedin, Higgins, Raymond (once, on pace this year), Hansen (on pace this year).

Our only guys to have recorded 30 assist (what I consider an equivalent point) are: D. Sedin, H. Sedin, Kesler, and Burrows (once).

The top line is obviously getting'er done but with Kesler out, we don't even have one other guy on another line that has shown he can put up top 6 level assists in the NHL. In contrast, we have four other guys that have shown they can chip in a top 6 level amount of goals if put in the right situation.

Adding a guy like Gagne, Hemsky, Tanguay, Hudler, Hodgson, Ennis, Stastny, Brassard, Roy, Rebeiro, Fleischmann, Versteeg, Boyes, Nielsen, Boedker, or Purcell. Might make a big difference in getting a guy like Booth or Higgins scoring goals again...obviously these guys have different cons or they wouldn't be on the list at all.

This. So much this.

We've got a lot of solid north-south types and shooters who can score a pretty decent amount with the right opportunities. What we don't have, is anyone other than the Twins and maybe Burrows to set these opportunities up. Even Kesler has clearly trended away from an interest in playing setup man.

 

[B-rock]

This. So much this.

We've got a lot of solid north-south types and shooters who can score a pretty decent amount with the right opportunities. What we don't have, is anyone other than the Twins and maybe Burrows to set these opportunities up. Even Kesler has clearly trended away from an interest in playing setup man.

The problem is that AV loves these kinds of players and doesn't allow for any other kind of player on his team. No surprise then that the team is perpetually starved for offence.

I agree with previous posters that Burrows is looking like ass lately and that Raymond is back to his ineffectual self, getting continually outmuscled on the boards. Nice to see Garisson playing well and to all those henny penny's out there, try to remember for next time that it takes about a month for new d men to adjust to a new system. He's pretty much a Mitchell clone with a bit less grit and a bit more of a shot. Good signing. Need one more offensive dynamo on the back end to round things out. Not sure where you find him though.