GDT: Game 23: Coyotes 7.0 or something @ Wild - 6PM - FSAZ+ (11/27)

Jakey53

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Aug 27, 2011
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Cousins - Crouse - Archibald: our new first line

Edit: meh

I'm eating crow for breakfast all because of Archibald.:laugh: Give credit where credit is due, that fourth line played fantastic. The kids did good, Crouse 1 goal, 1 assist, Archibald with career high 3 pts. and Strome will a goal and an assist.........oh wait, Strome is not on our team.
 
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cobra427

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May 6, 2012
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Well, does that apply to Strome, as well as the talent that surrounds him?

Strome's linemates in Erie were Raddysh and Debrincat in his final year, correct? Baptiste and Elie in his draft year? Considering that Debrincat has been more productive in the NHL thus far by making it to the league before Strome and putting up points on a more consistent basis, is he the true driver and Strome was kind of "along for the ride?" Same principle as being on a line behind McDavid - so much attention was paid to McDavid that he was playing against inferior competition, and now getting lined up against better talent shows just how much more Strome needs to put in.

I truly think that is the case of what RT means by passengers - too many people are looking for someone else to do something, rather than taking the initiative, even when the initiative may have a poorer than expected result. But since our players who can do that (Keller) are not adjusting well in their second season, it leaves us in a really interesting position, as we don't have the complement of players to help bring out the best in others. Keller had it last year, and now it is regressing slightly now that people have tape on him. Strome was designed to be that guy, but it is looking like he is the player that thrives off of being not expected to drive the play. Is that mismanagement by the coaching staff, or the realization that the talent that we have to complement Strome doesn't fit and we made the decision to trade Strome instead? The latter option has the most danger associated with it, but it is either that or wait (and wait, and wait) to see if the right player to fit Strome comes along via trade, FA, or draft.
Good post. I had been thinking that about Strome being along for the ride a bit given his teammates before the NHL. Playing with Kane will lead to more production, how could it not? I don't think the issue is Strome producing with talented line mates, its his poor play without the puck that eventually limits his TOI.

This is hindsight, but Tip wanted to deal the Strome pick for Hamilton, Chayka would have drafted Marner or Hannifan, but DM had final say and they took Strome.
 

cobra427

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May 6, 2012
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I'm eating crow for breakfast all because of Archibald.:laugh: Give credit where credit is due, that fourth line played fantastic. The kids did good, Crouse 1 goal, 1 assist, Archibald with career high 3 pts. and Strome will a goal and an assist.........oh wait, Strome is not on our team.
You need to blast Keller and OEL, so they can have a better next game too:)
 

azcanuck

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coyotes are looking more and more like a lottery team. Every once in a while you'll see them beat a team after essentially getting their ass handed to them most of the game.
They had 6 shots on goal halfway through the game. this after a trade was supposed to jolt them? Wow.
Not impressed with them at all.
I watched the Hawks game too. Strome is a playmaker and needs linemates who can finish. I still think he's only a marginal NHL player because of all of his warts but he'll put up more points playing with Kane for sure. And don't think anyone can play with Kane. it's tough playing with really good players. Their speed and the way they think the game demands a lot out of you and will expose you if you're a fraud. We'll see how that goes.
Perlini was invisible.
 

Jakey53

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Aug 27, 2011
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Did you even see the goal? Fleury had made a save on the side and the goal was practically wide open. There were some legs and skates in the front that actually nearly pushed the puck wide, but when Strome was the only player who knew where the puck was with 3 Golden Knights within a few feet of the goal mouth, it's not exactly something to write home about.

It's kind of what had been talked about before with regard to how much Strome drives the action - Kane basically did all the work behind it and Strome simply capitalized without even doing much to force the play. Good for him, but don't be fooled into believing that he had a major part in creating that opportunity.

A goal is a goal is a goal. I don't care how they go in as long as they go in.
 
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Jakey53

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You need to blast Keller and OEL, so they can have a better next game too:)

I will add your boy Stepan to that list. How the hell does he get the most minutes of any forward and wasn't you first line C. He was invisible most of the night. The fourth line played fantastic every shift and gets 11 TOI.
 

Jakey53

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Aug 27, 2011
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I'm actually his biggest fan here. FYI ;)

I'm happy for Archibald, seems like a nice kid, but not a very good player. Happy the fourth line showed the top two lines how it's done. Crouse was a force tonight, just have to add a bit of nasty to his game and I'm a happy camper.
 

tuxonpups

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Mar 15, 2009
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Didn't see either game, so the obvious hot take is Arizona wins this trade by a landslide as Chicago lost and Arizona won. Got the deadweight players off Archibald and Crouse's line so they can put the team on their backs and carry us into the playoffs. Tocchet proves that the guys playing the "Tocchet way" win games despite lopsided stats, additional 5 year coaching extension incoming. Strome will now inherit Schmaltz's production from last year playing with Kane, players themselves are a wash. Perlini will be Duclair 2.0 in Chicago, sign with Seattle for league minimum the following year and score 40 as they sail into the Stanley Cup finals. That about right?
 

Jakey53

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Aug 27, 2011
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I am watching it as I type.

You have heard that when people get traded or moved, they usually find a way to momentarily "fix" what it is that they are doing incorrectly? Call it the factor of trying harder to please the new coach and realizing the leash is short.

Kane drives plays better than Keller. Keller wants to be like Kane, but he isn't at this stage. Strome is taking advantage of having a truly elite player to drive the play. That's what happens with generational players like Kane. In normal circumstances, a player as highly regarded as Strome would be the guy who drives the play, but that is clearly not him. If Strome were lined with Keller, Keller isn't Kane right now, and we would have seen similar results as what we saw with Strome on the 4th line. Strome has been 6 of 15 in the faceoff dot, but wasn't he supposed to uphold his high win percentage regardless of where he plays in the lineup?

We'll be able to judge this better after about 5 or 6 games to see where everything stands.

We will never know will we. They never even tried Strome with Keller. That's what I was saying all along, they didn't put Strome in a position to succeed. Why didn't they at least try Strome and Keller together? It worked with Domi last year. It doesn't matter who Kane plays with, he will drive that line, nothing wrong with that. If you think 5 or six games will decide what kind of player Strome will be in Chicago you should try and get a job with the Coyotes because that is there philosophy.
 

CLW

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Nov 11, 2018
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I liked what I saw with Hill. He must have a very different style than Raanta from what I saw, but he was sound in limited action. Kudos to the Coyotes to limiting him to so few SOG. I bet MN fans are ready to rip Dubnyk.

Hill is an Arizona 2015 pick :)
 
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MIGs Dog

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The 2nd period was a disaster. It looked like the Coyotes had been kidnapped at the 1st intermission and replaced by a local high school team. I almost "went to the store", but decided to stick it out. Their jump returned in the third, and as soon as Archie scored the go-ahead goal I shut off the tube...didn't want to ruin the good feeling I had by blowing the lead. Checked the score later and went to bed happy.
 
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Bonsai Tree

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coyotes are looking more and more like a lottery team. Every once in a while you'll see them beat a team after essentially getting their ass handed to them most of the game.
They had 6 shots on goal halfway through the game. this after a trade was supposed to jolt them? Wow.
Not impressed with them at all.
I watched the Hawks game too. Strome is a playmaker and needs linemates who can finish. I still think he's only a marginal NHL player because of all of his warts but he'll put up more points playing with Kane for sure. And don't think anyone can play with Kane. it's tough playing with really good players. Their speed and the way they think the game demands a lot out of you and will expose you if you're a fraud. We'll see how that goes.
Perlini was invisible.
Did you seriously think that the Coyotes would not be a lottery team this year prior to the season? Based on a good run during garbage time at the end of last year?
 

FinnishCoyote

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Jan 3, 2017
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I just think that we should be bad team this year and get best possible chances to win lottery. Our team has been bad, we have had high picks, but our team is like middle pack team when you compare young talent.

If we want to be threat in future, we need Kakko or Hughes this year. Top-6 with Hayton, Keller, Galchenyuk, Stepan, Dvorak and Schmaltz is full of complimentary guys (maybe aside Keller and possibly Hayton, but i doubt either of them can be the star forward for playoff team). With that core we might be able to make playoffs at some point, but usually that kind of teams get beaten rather easily
 

Grimes

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coyotes are looking more and more like a lottery team. Every once in a while you'll see them beat a team after essentially getting their ass handed to them most of the game.
They had 6 shots on goal halfway through the game. this after a trade was supposed to jolt them? Wow.
Not impressed with them at all.
I watched the Hawks game too. Strome is a playmaker and needs linemates who can finish. I still think he's only a marginal NHL player because of all of his warts but he'll put up more points playing with Kane for sure. And don't think anyone can play with Kane. it's tough playing with really good players. Their speed and the way they think the game demands a lot out of you and will expose you if you're a fraud. We'll see how that goes.
Perlini was invisible.

I had my eye on the Hawks game too. Have to agree that not everyone can play with Kane and not sure Strome can. He helped that line offensivly for sure, but I'm not convinced he can handle the legnth of shifts Kane takes.
Saw him multiple times looking absolutely gassed near the end of shifts and struggling to get off the ice. Maybe he just is out of condition from playing on our 4th line, but I can forsee his line getting into trouble defensivly if he is caught down low after a long offensive shift and cant get to his defensive coverage quickly.

Im a Strome supporter and would love to see him excel because he is so creative and I hope players like him are not a thing in the past in thos league. His assist was a thing of beauty last night.
 
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BUX7PHX

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Jul 7, 2011
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A goal is a goal is a goal. I don't care how they go in as long as they go in.

That's fine - but let's not also throw him a parade because he basically happened to be in a position where 4 (I thought only 3) Vegas players were within stick's reach of the puck and he basically had to punch it towards a fairly wide open net (there was a defenseman in front, but the puck was so deep, it would have been very hard to not put the puck on net, at the very least). Did he put himself in the right position? Sure. But was Strome the one who brought Fleury so far out of his crease that it forced the Knights to collapse, which basically took the defense out of position and led to the goal? Or was that Kane and Debrincat's efforts and Strome just kind of happened to be in the "right place, right time?" (Watch the video again - the only time Strome was within 5 feet of the puck in the entire sequence was when he happened to be in the right position to follow up). We had used that "right place, right time" logic quite a lot back when chatting about Strome after drafting him - he doesn't look like he is doing much, but when you go back and look at the box score, somehow, he managed to get some points. Seems like we have long known that he needs other players to drive things for him, and then when the other players get the defense out of position, he happens to be the one to capitalize.

My question is that since we were shooting so much and getting the high number of shots off that we were, why is it that we didn't see more of this from Strome overall when he was here? Why was there a lack of driving the net, since people talk about that aspect of his game last night? Is that b/c Strome had a wake-up call from the trade? Is that b/c he was playing with better overall linemates? Is it the system in general? Or was it reuniting he and Debrincat that established some chemistry? Or was it b/c Kane is just that talented of a player that he opens up many more lanes for his linemates?

All of those questions are things that we don't have here. We didn't have a great amount of established chemistry between Strome and some other players. There may have been some chemistry, but we also didn't scare any teams into forcing their defense to adjust that much with any established chemistry, either. That is about the only thing that we can get pissed at the coaching staff for, but we see that players that have that "entitled" feel don't mesh well with any type of coach - whether Turris/Tippett or Strome/Tocchet. Ron Wilson was with Toronto in the 2009 season - he healthy scratched Matt Stajan often early in the year 2008-09. But Stajan manned up and took it as something he needed to learn from. He set career highs in points that year, so sometimes, the player needs to sit back and realize that getting sat can be a motivating tool when the player isn't quite up to par with what is needed.

We didn't always see the effort from Strome. We don't have Patrick Kane - we have someone who models his game after Kane, but Kane didn't see the decrease in production from year 1 to year 2 that we are seeing with Keller (although Keller is not a huge concern to produce going forward). We are working towards a similar talent level to what the Hawks have at forward, but we are a significantly younger team at this juncture, and still learning the ropes.

I do understand that a good goal and a bad goal still count as a goal, but when the goal comes from what everyone else around you does to set you up - that still may not mean that you can't do more.
 

Heldig

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It was mentioned above that it can be hard to play with talent like Kane. Same can be said for Strome. IMO he sees the game a way not many players do. Playing Strome with plugs is counter to his skill set. Strome wants to pass to the right spot. Trouble is his linemates have to understand / see where the right spot is. Few on the Coyotes can do that. It is the reason why he and DeBrincat had so much success. DeBrincat finds the space and Strome got him the puck (and vice versa).
 

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