GDT: Game 22 |Chicago Blackhawks @ Detroit Red Wings | 12:30 PM EST | NBC

[TatarTangle]

No, YOU don't get it. You are a random schmuck on the internet. Babcock is a highly successful coach at whatever level he's coached at. When I have to choose between which one has the right ideas.... well, sorry.

I knew a pot once, he knew a kettle

 

[Flowah]

No, YOU don't get it. You are a random schmuck on the internet. Babcock is a highly successful coach at whatever level he's coached at. When I have to choose between which one has the right ideas.... well, sorry.

That's it? He's been a coach longer so he is infallible? Have you ever criticized a politician? I bet not, because you're a consistent and smart guy. And you realize that they've been a politician for way longer than you've ever been, and you're just some schmuck on the internet, so what the hell do you know? If I have to pick between who has the right idea, well, you're just a nobody.

You have the attitude of a man with no intellectual curiosity, no skepticism, no desire for improvement. It's kinda sad.

 

[rx7dryver]

What does Franzen even do for us anymore out there? He's about worthless as can be.

Franzen looked awful today. He looked worse than Abby and Cleary but he did just about score the game winner.

 

[DRWCountryClub]

That's it? He's been a coach longer so he is infallible? Have you ever criticized a politician? I bet not, because you're a consistent and smart guy. And you realize that they've been a politician for way longer than you've ever been, and you're just some schmuck on the internet, so what the hell do you know? If I have to pick between who has the right idea, well, you're just a nobody.

You have the attitude of a man with no intellectual curiosity, no skepticism, no desire for improvement. It's kinda sad.

Well said.

Soup guy's shtick is really getting old. Can't stand people on a message board with who criticize others for having and voicing opinions.

 

[Dynheart]

Well said. BUT:

Even when we are playing from behind, like in LA, Babcock does not even try Tatar with Datsyuk. This indicates to me there's more at play. Does Babs even give credit to Tatar in the post-games? But even if he wants to keep Tatar and Andersson on the 3rd, why not try Eaves or Miller in Abby's spot? Wouldn't mess with line match-ups and could they perform worse than Abby's 1 point? Why not switch Abby and Franzen? Give Z some dead-weight and Dats atleast one guy with a bit of skill and scoring ability.

There are ways to keep balanced lines without completely throwing one or two lines under the bus. What Babcock is doing now is handicapping our best offensive weapon, not giving enough ice-time to another of our best offensive weapons, and giving far too much ice-time to guys who are not scorers.

I don't think we need to read into that much.

My opinion? I fully believe Babcock may be grooming a Nyquist/Tatar/Andersson line in the future.

Andersson and Tatar are rookies. Nothing more, nothing less. Keep grooming them, even in the NHL. I think he wants these guys playing together at ALL times. In comes Nyquist? Sounds like a good line, eh?

 

[Flowah]

I don't think we need to read into that much.

My opinion? I fully believe Babcock may be grooming a Nyquist/Tatar/Andersson line in the future.

Andersson and Tatar are rookies. Nothing more, nothing less. Keep grooming them, even in the NHL. I think he wants these guys playing together at ALL times. In comes Nyquist? Sounds like a good line, eh?

No...

If playing Tatar more gives you wins, then you take those wins unless you're trying to tank. And yes, I think Tatar getting more TOI = more wins. Look at the kid's production in the fewer games and way fewer minutes he's playing compared to Abby, Cleary.

So unless your opinion is that Babcock is tanking, this is a terrible idea.

 

[Vladdy84]

Franzen looked awful today. He looked worse than Abby and Cleary but he did just about score the game winner.

Franzen was awful the first 2 periods. He went Mule in the 3rd. We don't know how hurt he still is. But yeah he looks soft out there for the most part. Still would love to rid ourselves of him then sign Semin next year

 

[CloneHakanPlease*]

Franzen looked awful today. He looked worse than Abby and Cleary but he did just about score the game winner.

No he did not. He was lazy, but he actually did drive to the net several times and had a few good shots. That's more than what Cleary or Abby did.

 

[tobu]

I thought this was a good game by Detroit, but Tatar's 8:15 ice time, are you kidding me? Switching to 3 lines only after he scores a goal and scratching his line for the remainder of the game? Seriously, this was some bad coaching in the 3rd!

 

[ashenhigh]

What do you purpose he does? Take Tatar off the third line, and then watch the other coach just match their top lines against the 3rd and 4th lines against the Wings?

I tell you what Q did. He matched he top lines against Datsyuk's line, and Zetterberg's line, obviously. But he made a point to go after the Wings 2nd line, and their 4th line. Why was the 3rd line mostly untouched? They generated the most today.

You move Tatar to Datsyuk's wing, especially when they are injured, you pretty much are in the same situation. Probably worse off. You still have a weak second line that MAY be able to produce just a little bit more; it's not proven. But you weaken the 3rd line so much that, THAT line will be a target. So will the 4th line AND the 2nd line. The other coaches will have a field day!

At least the 3rd and 1st line are clicking. THe 4th line...that is what it is. They do what they do. The 2nd line? At least Datsyuk can hold it together. the 3rd line? Tatar and Andersson are what hold that line together.

Get healthy...go from there.

Tatar had 8 freaking minutes of ice time this game. It isn't some outlandish idea to throw Tatar some more ice time and give him some shifts on the second line with Datsyuk who is clearly being dragged down by two terrible linemates who cant make a single play for him. Adaptive coaching, something Babcock is not doing. Instead we have a coach doing the same old **** every game.

Then in overtime.......Tatar gets no shifts?

Enough with the excuses for Babcock he is making some terrible on-ice decisions.

Get healthy you say? Oh I just cant wait for Bertuzzi and Sameulsson to get back. Unless of course by "get healthy" you only mean Helm get healthy.

 

[SoupGuru]

Well said.

Soup guy's shtick is really getting old. Can't stand people on a message board with who criticize others for having and voicing opinions.

Wtf? You guys think you hold the same cards as Babcock? That you guys are privy to the same info? You've been to all the practices and know what's going on better than one of the more successful coaches in the league? And then you get pissed at guys like me for trusting Babcock's coaching over a bunch of internet idiots?

You're right. I'm going to start taking medical advice from Ask Yahoo instead of my doctor.

 

[CloneHakanPlease*]

That's it? He's been a coach longer so he is infallible? Have you ever criticized a politician? I bet not, because you're a consistent and smart guy. And you realize that they've been a politician for way longer than you've ever been, and you're just some schmuck on the internet, so what the hell do you know? If I have to pick between who has the right idea, well, you're just a nobody.

You have the attitude of a man with no intellectual curiosity, no skepticism, no desire for improvement. It's kinda sad.

Post of the year.

 

[Flowah]

Wtf? You guys think you hold the same cards as Babcock? That you guys are privy to the same info? You've been to all the practices and know what's going on better than one of the more successful coaches in the league? And then you get pissed at guys like me for trusting Babcock's coaching over a bunch of internet idiots?

You're right. I'm going to start taking medical advice from Ask Yahoo instead of my doctor.

Completely incorrect analogy, unsurprising based on your logical thinking skills.

The Ask Yahoo guy does not casually practice medicine and has not been observing doctors for 20+ years.

A lot of the fans here, myself included, have been playing hockey at various levels and watching it at various levels for decades. We're not just some random guy off the street who has no idea what he's watching. We're watching every game. We're tracking prospects. We know how hockey is played. We can tell when someone is playing well and when someone isn't.

Want a better analogy? Try someone who's been a paralegal for 25 years and see if you trust his legal opinion even though he's never passed the bar or gone to law school. That guy is going to know a hell of a lot, in some cases, more than most new lawyers. He's us. He's the guy who doesn't have the degree or pedigree, but has been involved with the subject for a long time and has been using it practically for just as long. He's not just some clueless idiot. His opinion isn't baseless.

Maybe you should grab a clue.

 

[Dynheart]

No...

If playing Tatar more gives you wins, then you take those wins unless you're trying to tank. And yes, I think Tatar getting more TOI = more wins. Look at the kid's production in the fewer games and way fewer minutes he's playing compared to Abby, Cleary.

So unless your opinion is that Babcock is tanking, this is a terrible idea.

Trying to tank? I don't think so.

Also, when did Tatar become the magic man? I remember this with Nyquist last year. Babcock the horrible! And when Nyquist was put on Zetterbergs wing, or even Datsyuk's wing...all it did was look pretty. No results.

Tatar will probably end up the same. It's best if he stick to the 3rd line and build chemistry with Andersson.

 

[Dynheart]

Tatar had 8 freaking minutes of ice time this game. It isn't some outlandish idea to throw Tatar some more ice time and give him some shifts on the second line with Datsyuk who is clearly being dragged down by two terrible linemates who cant make a single play for him. Adaptive coaching, something Babcock is not doing. Instead we have a coach doing the same old **** every game.

Then in overtime.......Tatar gets no shifts?

Enough with the excuses for Babcock he is making some terrible on-ice decisions.

Get healthy you say? Oh I just cant wait for Bertuzzi and Sameulsson to get back. Unless of course by "get healthy" you only mean Helm get healthy.

Ok then. We'll just keep using Adbdelkader and Cleary...instead of having Flips/Bert/Sammy for options.

 

[RedWingsNow*]

Wtf? You guys think you hold the same cards as Babcock? That you guys are privy to the same info? You've been to all the practices and know what's going on better than one of the more successful coaches in the league? And then you get pissed at guys like me for trusting Babcock's coaching over a bunch of internet idiots?

You're right. I'm going to start taking medical advice from Ask Yahoo instead of my doctor.

Why are you even posting in a hockey forum? What kinds of posts do you expect to see?

 

[RedWingsNow*]

Besides... the return of Bertuzzi and Samuelsson... isn't necessarily going to help this team.

In all liklihood, it means Tatar and Andersson are back in Grand Rapids.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

Trying to tank? I don't think so.

Also, when did Tatar become the magic man? I remember this with Nyquist last year. Babcock the horrible! And when Nyquist was put on Zetterbergs wing, or even Datsyuk's wing...all it did was look pretty. No results.

Tatar will probably end up the same. It's best if he stick to the 3rd line and build chemistry with Andersson.

I don't know what alternate universe you spent last season in, but in our universe the Nyquist-Datsyuk-Bertuzzi line was pretty solid.

 

[Flowah]

Trying to tank? I don't think so.

Also, when did Tatar become the magic man? I remember this with Nyquist last year. Babcock the horrible! And when Nyquist was put on Zetterbergs wing, or even Datsyuk's wing...all it did was look pretty. No results.

Tatar will probably end up the same. It's best if he stick to the 3rd line and build chemistry with Andersson.

And? The Abby/Cleary/Datsyuk line doesn't even look pretty, forget about any kind of results. And they seem immovable from that line. Babcock hasn't even thought about changing that up. Why are they so secure? Is it because Abby has proven himself in the past as an offensive dynamo?

If Tatar or Nyquist had the same kind of leeway and playing time with Datsyuk/PP, I can guarantee they'd have more than just ONE point by now.

 

[obey86]

Besides... the return of Bertuzzi and Samuelsson... isn't necessarily going to help this team.

In all liklihood, it means Tatar and Andersson are back in Grand Rapids.

Yep. On one hand I want Helm, Bertuzzi, and Samuelsson back and healthy not because I like them (Bert and Sam anyways) but to knock Abs and Cleary out of the top 6 and out of the top PP. On the other hand, I know that likely means Tatar and Andersson's time is up. I'm not sure which scenario is better for the Wings quite honestly.

 

[Dynheart]

Besides... the return of Bertuzzi and Samuelsson... isn't necessarily going to help this team.

In all liklihood, it means Tatar and Andersson are back in Grand Rapids.

Probably. But Datsyuk get's some better wingers to work with. And let's face it, they are improvements to what he has now.

Yea, the 3rd line will probably take a down grade, but that is OK. I'm much rather that, and have the 2nd line compete with other 2nd lines...so our 1st line can do it's thing.

Right now its Z's line against other teams first and second lines, if they want to wear him out. The 2nd line is there for the pickings...but it's a defensive grind. 3rd line is usually matched against the other 3rd line. 4th line...they do what they do. Energy line...weather the storm.

If Datsyuks line get's stronger, that makes Z's line stronger (only because his line isn't focus fired). 3rd line? Pray for Helm's return. THe 4th line will always be the 4th lien, and they've been good.

 

[Dynheart]

I don't know what alternate universe you spent last season in, but in our universe the Nyquist-Datsyuk-Bertuzzi line was pretty solid.

/sigh

It LOOKED solid, hence the reason why I said pretty. But we are talk goals, right? Nyquist didn't exactly light the lamp, did he?

 

[RedWingsNow*]

Thanks for bringing some common sense to the thread

Holy hell. You call that common sense?

So you ruin your 20-minute a night center to protect an eight-minute a night 3/4th line?

Get real

That's the sense of a commoner, alright.

 

[Dynheart]

Holy hell. You call that common sense?

So you ruin your 20-minute a night center to protect an eight-minute a night 3/4th line?

Get real

That's the sense of a commoner, alright.

Nobody can have a debate without insulting one another in this thread?

I'm up for debates, not name calling. I have my views, which are totally valid. You have yours...doesn't make them any more valid than mine.

 

[Brick Top]

Probably. But Datsyuk get's some better wingers to work with. And let's face it, they are improvements to what he has now.

Yea, the 3rd line will probably take a down grade, but that is OK. I'm much rather that, and have the 2nd line compete with other 2nd lines...so our 1st line can do it's thing.

Right now its Z's line against other teams first and second lines, if they want to wear him out. The 2nd line is there for the pickings...but it's a defensive grind. 3rd line is usually matched against the other 3rd line. 4th line...they do what they do. Energy line...weather the storm.

If Datsyuks line get's stronger, that makes Z's line stronger (only because his line isn't focus fired). 3rd line? Pray for Helm's return. THe 4th line will always be the 4th lien, and they've been good.

Funny thing is, we don't have to wait for guys to return to the lineup to make Datsyuk's line more dangerous... basically playing any 2 other wingers on the roster besides Abby and Cleary and Pavel's line has a better chance of generating chances and sustaining pressure in the offensive zone. Move Tatar up to play with Datsyuk, makes the 2nd line much stronger which is more important than keeping the 3rd line producing at its current level given how much more IT Pavel's line gets.

Our current 2nd line gets routinely outplayed by other teams' 2nd lines, which really speaks to the levels that 11 and 8 drag down one of the games true elite playmakers and talents. Having Pavel's line being productive and dangerous is far more important than keeping the 3rd line going for the scant 8-10 mins it gets.