GDT: Game 20 - Blue Jackets vs Blackhawks - "Why Does It Seem Like Every Game is In-Division" - 2/22 7 PM

Columbus Jack

He's from Columbus
Nov 25, 2009
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Vehvilainen you mean the guy who gave up 3 goals on 24 shots last night and lost in regulation while his team put up 37 shots?? Cmon now, if he's not playing regularly yet there's probably a reason. You don't just throw guys like that in to the NHL, let him earn his playing time in the A first, if he can't do that, there's probably a reason.
 

MoeBartoli

Checkers-to-Jackets
Jan 12, 2011
13,944
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The lack of defensive structure this team has is nothing short of shocking given their recent history. It wasn't good at the beginning of the season and it's getting worse as the season goes along. I have no hope that this team can figure it out before it's too late, if it isn't already.
This team seems built on two extremes. They can play tough 2-1, 3-2 OT defensive games while generating little to modest offense; or they can get into an up and down the ice affair scoring goals but playing pond hockey defense. But they can’t seem to blend the two.
 

KJ Dangler

Registered User
Oct 21, 2006
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Yes. And basketball players do a lot of that shooting practice on their own. That's why practice courts have multiple hoops for them to shoot at. Plus free throws are a little different than a penalty shot. There is no one in the shooters face or standing in front of the rim trying to stop their shot. How are you going to practice shootouts? Have Korpi or Elvis play goalie for an hour and risk getting hurt while guys practice their approaches? You can't just put a cone there or an empty net, you need something there that can move or whats the point? These guys shoot at empty nets all the time.

Tex was probably coming up in the rotation. If he shot and missed you would be complaining someone else didn't shoot. There was no problem with any of the 3 that shot. They just didn't get it done.
You mean like today ?

 

Monstershockey

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Dec 31, 2017
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You mean like today ?


Well, there you go. They practice shootouts. I guess that answered your question. Like I said in an earier post, I really couldn't care less about the shootout. I am sure there are other things they could work on, but lightening things up like this could be a good thing.
 

majormajor

Registered User
Jun 23, 2018
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You might be right.
Jenner, Nash, Foligno are not in the same position as Cam on PK though, and play a different role. Cam is there to intercept the puck at the blue line and use his speed (Robinson could probably do the same). He does that pretty well.
Atkinson has a high rate of short handed goals because he plays so much on the penalty kill does not sound silly to me. He's the one that gets most of CBJ'S chances on PK given his high position in the DZ.

You couldn't be more wrong.

Here's the NHL's Shorthanded goal leaders over the last 7 seasons. Cam is second with 14 goals. And none of the other guys around him, (Marchand, Stepan, Pageau, Frolik, Wheeler) have scored at a higher rate per minute (SHG/60). He's obviously not scoring because of minutes. 238 players have played 500+ shorthanded minutes in that span and Cam scores goals at a faster per minute rate than all of them.

All of the PK forwards have the same job, by the way. We don't have some cherrypick system in Columbus.
 

majormajor

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Jun 23, 2018
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This team seems built on two extremes. They can play tough 2-1, 3-2 OT defensive games while generating little to modest offense; or they can get into an up and down the ice affair scoring goals but playing pond hockey defense. But they can’t seem to blend the two.

I don't think this team can play tough 2-1 games. You're thinking of a different team, different players.
 

cbjgirl

Just thinking
Jan 19, 2006
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about last summer.
I don't think this team can play tough 2-1 games. You're thinking of a different team, different players.
I think his main point, and one I've thought for a few years now, is that the team seems to be capable of playing either offense or defense not both in the same game. Defense is worse this year than it has been though.
 

KCbus

Registered User
Jan 3, 2010
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I don't think this team can play tough 2-1 games. You're thinking of a different team, different players.
I think they CAN, they're just NOT. Strong defensive hockey is the foundation of this team. It has been for several years. They're just struggling like hell.
I think his main point, and one I've thought for a few years now, is that the team seems to be capable of playing either offense or defense not both in the same game. Defense is worse this year than it has been though.
I think this is spot-on. We have enough talent to score some goals. We have enough talent to play strong defensive hockey. We just don't have enough talent to do both at the same time.

Some teams are so talented that they can sit back and defend all game and still pick up three or four goals by virtue of that talent alone. Guys makin' plays. Some teams can press the attack and get away with it because they have elite defenders and goaltending who can bail them out routinely. We aren't at that level. It seems like we either have to pack it in and hang on for dear life, and HOPE we can scratch out a couple goals, OR we can open up the offense and routinely get torched and hope the opponent can't cash in.
 

Forepar

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Nov 6, 2011
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I still thought of Bjorkstrand as our best player. FWIW he had 6 pts in 9 games this month before counting this 2 goal performance, pretty good for being saddled with Domi on his line. :D



Triggered... Bjorkstrand was there to prop them up!



Texier isn't going to help anyone score if he keeps booting it. It's really on him that he hasn't been scoring, not a linemate issue in my opinion. And Torts loves him, as soon as he regains his form he'll take that 2LW spot from Jenner right away.

I do like your lines, I'd try them. I think Robinson helps a lot defensively so maybe that will actually click. Domi can at least take faceoffs for Tex. That might be the only thing Domi has been okay at. He's killing us with and without the puck. For me it's not patience running thin, it's get this guy off my team now.
Not like you to be that definitive about jettisoning a player...or at least not often!
I am not disagreeing, just hoping (against all logic apparently) that Domi magically finds his game. I still agree with not giving Josh Anderson long-term contract, but it would be nice to have SOMETHING serviceable in return. Not yet.
 

Forepar

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I think they CAN, they're just NOT. Strong defensive hockey is the foundation of this team. It has been for several years. They're just struggling like hell.

I think this is spot-on. We have enough talent to score some goals. We have enough talent to play strong defensive hockey. We just don't have enough talent to do both at the same time.

Some teams are so talented that they can sit back and defend all game and still pick up three or four goals by virtue of that talent alone. Guys makin' plays. Some teams can press the attack and get away with it because they have elite defenders and goaltending who can bail them out routinely. We aren't at that level. It seems like we either have to pack it in and hang on for dear life, and HOPE we can scratch out a couple goals, OR we can open up the offense and routinely get torched and hope the opponent can't cash in.
I agree with the underlying premise - we aren't talented enough to be great at both.
However, I don't see CBJ giving up goals because they opened up the offense - they simply can't get the puck out of their own end consistently.
 

Forepar

Registered User
Nov 6, 2011
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Just watched the game...
Come on.

Lots of thing to say on regulation time, but I was not too unhappy with the line changes that Torts did.

OT! Only a few players have the chance to play, and I'm not quite sure they are the ones that deserve it. They had puck possession most of the time, but why always 13 and 71. With space on the ice, I am sure 42 would have been as good

But seriously, how ridiculous is this choice of players for shootout? Atkinson is hot right now, but it has more to do with luck than ability with the puck. And Roslovic, what a joke! I mean, Texier last SO goal was superb, why not giving him a chance? Torts wants the team to win or to give the opportunity to his favorite players to score the winning goal.

Well, I need to calm down, I am going to read the game thread now, which is most of the time much more entertaining than the game itself



"Well, I need to calm down, I am going to read the game thread now, which is most of the time much more entertaining than the game itself"


This ^^^ . The bolded part I mean. LOL.
 
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majormajor

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I agree with the underlying premise - we aren't talented enough to be great at both.
However, I don't see CBJ giving up goals because they opened up the offense - they simply can't get the puck out of their own end consistently.

Right. I would have said before this year that they could go to either end of the tradeoff, that pushing hard on offense gets them goals but they get buried on odd man goals against. This year that hasn't been the issue. It's not the rush, it's just bad d-zone play.

I think they CAN, they're just NOT. Strong defensive hockey is the foundation of this team. It has been for several years. They're just struggling like hell.

I think this is spot-on. We have enough talent to score some goals. We have enough talent to play strong defensive hockey. We just don't have enough talent to do both at the same time.

Some teams are so talented that they can sit back and defend all game and still pick up three or four goals by virtue of that talent alone. Guys makin' plays. Some teams can press the attack and get away with it because they have elite defenders and goaltending who can bail them out routinely. We aren't at that level. It seems like we either have to pack it in and hang on for dear life, and HOPE we can scratch out a couple goals, OR we can open up the offense and routinely get torched and hope the opponent can't cash in.

I don't think that's been the issue. We've had one game in the last ten where we were playing low-event hockey. There is no pack it in and hang on, it's all high event all the time. As above it's not a matter of shifting systems towards offense, we aren't giving up tons of odd-man rushes, which happens when you are too aggressive offensively. We're just not good in our own zone, there isn't a switch to flip. I think it's more personnel related, I really don't think we have a good cast for strong defensive hockey. Centers are far more important than wingers for defense and our centers have just been bad at it. This isn't last year's Jackets stylistically or in terms of personnel.

The guys that I see screwing up coverage the most often are Laine, Roslovic, Domi, and Stenlund. Perhaps we can find ways to make it work with them.

1. Play Laine with strong playdrivers (Foligno and Bjorkstrand) to get him out of the D-zone.
2. Play Roslovic with Jenner who can take the draws and cover defensively if needed.
3. Play Stenlund in a sheltered role (possibly an easier offensive 4th line, or on the wing with Nash).
4. Fire Domi into the moon.
 
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Monstershockey

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Right. I would have said before this year that they could go to either end of the tradeoff, that pushing hard on offense gets them goals but they get buried on odd man goals against. This year that hasn't been the issue. It's not the rush, it's just bad d-zone play.



I don't think that's been the issue. We've had one game in the last ten where we were playing low-event hockey. There is no pack it in and hang on, it's all high event all the time. As above it's not a matter of shifting systems towards offense, we aren't giving up tons of odd-man rushes, which happens when you are too aggressive offensively. We're just not good in our own zone, there isn't a switch to flip. I think it's more personnel related, I really don't think we have a good cast for strong defensive hockey. Centers are far more important than wingers for defense and our centers have just been bad at it. This isn't last year's Jackets stylistically or in terms of personnel.

The guys that I see screwing up coverage the most often are Laine, Roslovic, Domi, and Stenlund. Perhaps we can find ways to make it work with them.

1. Play Laine with strong playdrivers (Foligno and Bjorkstrand) to get him out of the D-zone.
2. Play Roslovic with Jenner who can take the draws and cover defensively if needed.
3. Play Stenlund in a sheltered role (possibly an easier offensive 4th line, or on the wing with Nash).
4. Fire Domi into the moon.
Reading your posts I think I am starting to get the feeling you aren't to fond of Domi.
 
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tchigo

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Dec 13, 2019
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You couldn't be more wrong.

Here's the NHL's Shorthanded goal leaders over the last 7 seasons. Cam is second with 14 goals. And none of the other guys around him, (Marchand, Stepan, Pageau, Frolik, Wheeler) have scored at a higher rate per minute (SHG/60). He's obviously not scoring because of minutes. 238 players have played 500+ shorthanded minutes in that span and Cam scores goals at a faster per minute rate than all of them.

All of the PK forwards have the same job, by the way. We don't have some cherrypick system in Columbus.
thanks for the information. Funny to see that he's the only one without assist among the 30 first
500+ shorthanded minutes players.



All of the PK forwards have the same job, by the way. We don't have some cherrypick system in Columbus.

Mas o menos. I still believe his high position in the DZ on PK helps a lot. Other forwards defend differently. It is only my perception. If I had to compare #13 to a soccer player, this would be Inzaghi. But I doubt it tells you anything ;)
 
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Farmboy Patty

Senior Hockey Analyst
Nov 2, 2017
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Well, that was fun until we lost. PP looked great and there was a lot to like, especially the way that the boys fought back.
 
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cslebn

80 forever
Feb 15, 2012
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You couldn't be more wrong.

Here's the NHL's Shorthanded goal leaders over the last 7 seasons. Cam is second with 14 goals. And none of the other guys around him, (Marchand, Stepan, Pageau, Frolik, Wheeler) have scored at a higher rate per minute (SHG/60). He's obviously not scoring because of minutes. 238 players have played 500+ shorthanded minutes in that span and Cam scores goals at a faster per minute rate than all of them.

All of the PK forwards have the same job, by the way. We don't have some cherrypick system in Columbus.

I always felt like Andy picked a little when he was out there
 
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Bookker

Registered User
Sep 17, 2010
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The guys that I see screwing up coverage the most often are Laine, Roslovic, Domi, and Stenlund. Perhaps we can find ways to make it work with them.

1. Play Laine with strong playdrivers (Foligno and Bjorkstrand) to get him out of the D-zone.
2. Play Roslovic with Jenner who can take the draws and cover defensively if needed.
3. Play Stenlund in a sheltered role (possibly an easier offensive 4th line, or on the wing with Nash).
4. Fire Domi into the moon.

I totally do agree :nod:
I would try something like :

Laine - Foligno - Bjorkstrand
Jenner - Texier - Roslovic
Robinson - Stenlund - Atkinson
Domi - Nash - Grigorenko

But of course it won't happen because Atkinson will play in the top6, and Texier will stay stuck with grinders.
 

majormajor

Registered User
Jun 23, 2018
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I totally do agree :nod:
I would try something like :

Laine - Foligno - Bjorkstrand
Jenner - Texier - Roslovic
Robinson - Stenlund - Atkinson
Domi - Nash - Grigorenko

But of course it won't happen because Atkinson will play in the top6, and Texier will stay stuck with grinders.

I don't mind Atkinson playing ahead of Texier for now. Texier isn't scoring because he's not playing very well. He's got to settle his hands a bit, and he'll move up when he does that, possibly supplanting Jenner. Atkinson is still hot and seemed to play well with Jenner and Roslovic last game.
 

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