GDT: Game 2: 10/6/2019 - Dallas Stars @ Detroit Red Wings - 7 PM ET (FS-D, ESPN+)

[Oddbob]

65 goals was historic. Go check the prorated numbers and see where he ranks for that season.

2007/2008 wasn’t the 80’s where goalies just flopped all over the place and goals were a joke.

Not saying 65 wasn't impressive cause it was, but 80s shooters also didn't have the sticks that Ovy has. So it wasn't as easy to score as people make out, otherwise we would have had far more 65 goal guys back then. Truth is, there wasn't that many different guys who hit that many in a season. Gretzky, Lemieux, Yzerman, Hull and a few others.

Quick count: Roughly 13 guys scored 65 or more in a season. Not that many, which means it wasn't that easy back in the day either.

 

[Fil Larkmanthanasiou]

To be fair, Mantha struggled hard for a lot longer than we've had Zadina. Like 4 years longer.

Short memories round here.

Mantha only really struggled in his first year as a pro and that was in part because of an injury sustained at training camp.
I only said 'what we were once hopin Zadina would become" as a dig for all of those who have written him off. For the record I still have hope that he will become 6'0" 200lb version of Moe.

 

[Gniwder]

Mantha only really struggled in his first year as a pro and that was in part because of an injury sustained at training camp.
I only said 'what we were once hopin Zadina would become" as a dig for all of those who have written him off. For the record I still have hope that he will become 6'0" 200lb version of Moe.

Yea, if 36 pts in 60 games is struggling then I hope the bottom 9 starts struggling soon.

Mantha showed he was NHL caliber from the start, at least when he decided to play. Not so much with Zadina, but I haven't given up yet. Let him ripen or whatever. I'm more interested in what Svech can do now, worry about Zadina later.

 

[Ezekial]

Mantha only really struggled in his first year as a pro and that was in part because of an injury sustained at training camp.
I only said 'what we were once hopin Zadina would become" as a dig for all of those who have written him off. For the record I still have hope that he will become 6'0" 200lb version of Moe.

He was also a full year older than Zadina, 14 months to be exact.

 

[Hen Kolland]

Yea, if 36 pts in 60 games is struggling then I hope the bottom 9 starts struggling soon.

Mantha showed he was NHL caliber from the start, at least when he decided to play. Not so much with Zadina, but I haven't given up yet. Let him ripen or whatever. I'm more interested in what Svech can do now, worry about Zadina later.

Mantha got 10 games in Detroit in his D+3 year and wasn’t a “mainstay” until his D+4 year. Meaning Mantha was 2 years older when he made his NHL debut than Zadina was when he made his.

Further, Zadina’s D+1 performance last year was at a higher points/game clip (0.59) than Mantha’s D+2 performance (0.53).

I know you are aware of some of, if not all of these minor details, but the worry about Zadina is being taken a bit too far imo. What he did in GR last year might not be what we were all hoping for, but it’s not at all a major concern at this point.

 

[Gniwder]

Mantha got 10 games in Detroit in his D+3 year and wasn’t a “mainstay” until his D+4 year. Meaning Mantha was 2 years older when he made his NHL debut than Zadina was when he made his.

Further, Zadina’s D+1 performance last year was at a higher points/game clip (0.59) than Mantha’s D+2 performance (0.53).

I know you are aware of some of, if not all of these minor details, but the worry about Zadina is being taken a bit too far imo. What he did in GR last year might not be what we were all hoping for, but it’s not at all a major concern at this point.

I'm not counting those 10 games, much like I'm not really counting Zadina's 9 games. As Hirose has shown, anything can happen in the first handful of games.

I know Zadina is still young, that's why I'm more focused on what Svech can do since he's not waiver eligible next year. The team will have to make a decision. He should be playing somewhere right now, I don't like him sitting in a press box.

It's silly to give up on any prospect until they run out of waivers exmption.

 

[Fil Larkmanthanasiou]

I'm not counting those 10 games, much like I'm not really counting Zadina's 9 games. As Hirose has shown, anything can happen in the first handful of games.

I know Zadina is still young, that's why I'm more focused on what Svech can do since he's not waiver eligible next year. The team will have to make a decision. He should be playing somewhere right now, I don't like him sitting in a press box.

It's silly to give up on any prospect until they run out of waivers exmption.

After missing an entire season, Svech really needs to play more than anyone. This is even more confounding than not allowing Ras to play in the WJC last year.

 

[Fil Larkmanthanasiou]

Not saying 65 wasn't impressive cause it was, but 80s shooters also didn't have the sticks that Ovy has. So it wasn't as easy to score as people make out, otherwise we would have had far more 65 goal guys back then. Truth is, there wasn't that many different guys who hit that many in a season. Gretzky, Lemieux, Yzerman, Hull and a few others.

Quick count: Roughly 13 guys scored 65 or more in a season. Not that many, which means it wasn't that easy back in the day either.

If I am not mistaken all of them played in the late 70s to the early nineties when Bettman took over and allowed goalie equipment to balloon for the sake of parity.

 

[Fil Larkmanthanasiou]

Not saying 65 wasn't impressive cause it was, but 80s shooters also didn't have the sticks that Ovy has. So it wasn't as easy to score as people make out, otherwise we would have had far more 65 goal guys back then. Truth is, there wasn't that many different guys who hit that many in a season. Gretzky, Lemieux, Yzerman, Hull and a few others.

Quick count: Roughly 13 guys scored 65 or more in a season. Not that many, which means it wasn't that easy back in the day either.

The sticks break so often now that any advantage gained in shot velocity is offset by the fact that they are so fragile breaking on shot attempts and often leaving players without a stick

 

[Gniwder]

The sticks break so often now that any advantage gained in shot velocity is offset by the fact that they are so fragile breaking on shot attempts and often leaving players without a stick

If that was true, everyone would still be using wood sticks.

You know, as an engineer, I think they're made fragile on purpose so they can sell more sticks. But I also think Bettman rigs the lottery, and I never go anywhere without my tinfoil hat.

 

[Oddbob]

The sticks break so often now that any advantage gained in shot velocity is offset by the fact that they are so fragile breaking on shot attempts and often leaving players without a stick

Absolutely not true!

 

[TheOtherOne]

You know, as an engineer, I think they're made fragile on purpose so they can sell more sticks.

If that were true, the company that stopped making them fragile would instantly own 100% of the market.

 

[Fil Larkmanthanasiou]

Absolutely not true!

Do you even watch hockey?

 

[Gniwder]

If that were true, the company that stopped making them fragile would instantly own 100% of the market.

The problem is that the company would only sell one per customer since they don't break, I still have the aluminum stick that I carried around as backup.

There are companies that supposedly make more durable composites, some with Kevlar or titanium but I don't know much about them. I quit playing hockey and softball before composites came out. I'm aluminum age, lol.

The only composites I have are golf clubs, and I don't slash or crosscheck people with it. Not yet at least.

I'm gonna think on this for a while though, 'cause anyone that comes out with a better composite stick will make money.

 

[Oddbob]

Do you even watch hockey?

Are you in the age group of 10-13?!? That is how a little child argues their point, "oh you don't agree with me, so that must mean you don't watch the game!" Sticks don't break at such an astronomical rate that evens the better stick vs worse stick argument. Also wooden sticks broke as well, so that even negates some of the difference as well.

 

[Oddbob]

The problem is that the company would only sell one per customer since they don't break, I still have the aluminum stick that I carried around as backup.

There are companies that supposedly make more durable composites, some with Kevlar or titanium but I don't know much about them. I quit playing hockey and softball before composites came out. I'm aluminum age, lol.

The only composites I have are golf clubs, and I don't slash or crosscheck people with it. Not yet at least.

I'm gonna think on this for a while though, 'cause anyone that comes out with a better composite stick will make money.

You aren't golfing right then! I always slash at least a couple of people during golf.

 

[Gniwder]

You aren't golfing right then! I always slash at least a couple of people during golf.

OK, Happy Gilmour.

 

[vladdy16]

Not saying 65 wasn't impressive cause it was, but 80s shooters also didn't have the sticks that Ovy has. So it wasn't as easy to score as people make out, otherwise we would have had far more 65 goal guys back then. Truth is, there wasn't that many different guys who hit that many in a season. Gretzky, Lemieux, Yzerman, Hull and a few others.

Quick count: Roughly 13 guys scored 65 or more in a season. Not that many, which means it wasn't that easy back in the day either.

The sticks ruined so much about the game imo. But you can't make this 1 to 1 comparison. Because the goaltending and skating ability of defenders is so much different.

Loosely/anecdotally/hypothetically speaking, if your life depended on it, I think you'd be better off attempting to beat a 1980 goalie with a wood stick, then attempting to beat a modern goalie with a composite.

Composites definitely increase the production of fringe players which changes the dynamics of the game, but I don't think it eats into the function of world class players in any way.

 

[Gniwder]

The sticks ruined so much about the game imo.

I agree, composite sticks and goalies wearing queen size mattresses as padding have both ruined the game. They don't allow anything but wood bats in baseball, pro hockey should be the same. It's all about marketing...

Also (slightly off topic), I think double wall and composite softball bats are flat out dangerous. I always pitched without a cup, nowadays I'd consider wearing NHL goalie equipment.

And they should make tennis players use those little wood rackets. Takes way more skills to hit a ball with those.

Damn do I feel old… getting off my soapbox.

 

[waltdetroit]

I agree, composite sticks and goalies wearing queen size mattresses as padding have both ruined the game. They don't allow anything but wood bats in baseball, pro hockey should be the same. It's all about marketing...

Also (slightly off topic), I think double wall and composite softball bats are flat out dangerous. I always pitched without a cup, nowadays I'd consider wearing NHL goalie equipment.

And they should make tennis players use those little wood rackets. Takes way more skills to hit a ball with those.

Damn do I feel old… getting off my soapbox.

It's not the game or how well it's played, it seems it's just scoring goals that counts these days

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

The sticks ruined so much about the game imo. But you can't make this 1 to 1 comparison. Because the goaltending and skating ability of defenders is so much different.

Loosely/anecdotally/hypothetically speaking, if your life depended on it, I think you'd be better off attempting to beat a 1980 goalie with a wood stick, then attempting to beat a modern goalie with a composite.

Composites definitely increase the production of fringe players which changes the dynamics of the game, but I don't think it eats into the function of world class players in any way.

I always wondered if it would be worth it to switch to a wood stick in situations like if you're a defenseman on the PK in the playoffs.

It's even more improbable it would happen these days since players grew up on composites. But I thought maybe earlier on in that era someone would try it.

 

[Gniwder]

I always wondered if it would be worth it to switch to a wood stick in situations like if you're a defenseman on the PK in the playoffs.

It's even more improbable it would happen these days since players grew up on composites. But I thought maybe earlier on in that era someone would try it.

The flex is different, so the way the puck comes off the stick will be different. Would really suck if you went to wrist a puck out of the zone and wind up throwing the puck right at the opponent because you used a different stick. Hockey isn't like golf or softball (batting) where you have a lot of time to think about what you're doing.

I flubbed pucks all the time with my aluminum backup stick, it was heavier and stiffer. Damn good for slashing people though.

 

[Mlotek]

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