GDT: Game 17: Vegas Golden Knights @ Toronto Maple Leafs | 4:00PM | More realistic VGK effort edition

[hangman005]

Also another game in a long list of games going back to last season where we fail to score more than once with the back up.

 

[GKG18]

Great effort by Suubs. Sucks he didn't get the W. I get tired of the lazy 'He sucks' analysis. He's good. I'd like to see him get more reps going forward.

 

[ltsthinaz]

Going back to last season that is 10 straight games without a win in OT. Pathetic.

And another 3rd period lead we give up that ends in a loss. It almost feels like the team doesn’t want Subban to win a game. We never see the team play well enough to give him an easy win.

Even though we gave up a one goal lead, it took several tic-tac penalties and two broken sticks to tie the game. Granted, we'll win an OT game in about ten more years, but the part of the game we saw wasn't like recent games - we controlled possession and had beaucoup chances, didn't need the goalie to steal the game. We play every game like this we'll win most and as I said there's no 3 on 3 in the playoffs.

 

[Vegas07]

This team isn’t scoring enough goals. In the last 11 games the number of goals scored has been: 2, 3, 3, 2, 2, 1, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1.

 

[ltsthinaz]

We're not scoring because:

Eakin - 0 goals

Pirri - 0 goals

Pacioretty - 4 goals (at 7 million per year)

Nosek - 0 goals since first two games

Glass - 2 goals (gets a pass as rookie playing out of position)

 

[Vegan Knight]

Great effort by Suubs. Sucks he didn't get the W. I get tired of the lazy 'He sucks' analysis. He's good. I'd like to see him get more reps going forward.

He doesn't suck he's just inconsistent, even for a backup. And it hasn't improved for years.

 

[HanSolo]

We're not scoring because:

Eakin - 0 goals

Pirri - 0 goals

Pacioretty - 4 goals (at 7 million per year)

Nosek - 0 goals since first two games

Glass - 2 goals (gets a pass as rookie playing out of position)

He's also a playmaker playing with two guys that have zero goals. And not to split hairs but he has 3 goals.

 

[CupInSIX]

We're not scoring because:

Eakin - 0 goals

Pirri - 0 goals

Pacioretty - 4 goals (at 7 million per year)

Nosek - 0 goals since first two games

Glass - 2 goals (gets a pass as rookie playing out of position)

and
Karlsson 4 goals
Marchessault 3 goals

Glass has 3 goals btw

 

[ltsthinaz]

and
Karlsson 4 goals
Marchessault 3 goals

Glass has 3 goals btw

Stand corrected on Glass, but........................part of this is on the defense. Spending too much time in our zone (much better tonight, btw), having to go 200 feet to score. We used to be constantly pressuring the other team, forcing turnovers and mistakes, getting to the goalie before he's set. Now...........not so much.

 

[Vegan Knight]

We need a defenseman who can release the offense and decrease the amount of time spent in our zone. A defenseman who holds the zone better. The forwards need to be able to think about offense a bit more and not have to worry about the defensemen.

I stand by the target of Niskanen, I realize some cap would have to go the other way but you could even send Eakin over, or who knows when Tuch will be back now so maybe they could LTIR him for a while. Don't want to rush him back from a second injury to the head in a month and a half.

Niskanen for Schuldt, Eakin, some combo of our 2 2nds and 3rd.

Theodore-Niskanen as the second pair.

Nosek/Carrier-Glass-Pirri/Tuch when healthy as the third line.

They already have enough PKers to replace Eakin.

Even DeMelo for our 3rd would be something.

 

[Vegas07]

This team isn’t scoring enough goals. In the last 11 games the number of goals scored has been: 2, 3, 3, 2, 2, 1, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1.

I forgot to mention that in the game against Montreal, Tuch played and scored a goal, Eakin had 2 assists (his only points of the season!) and Glass had a goal. And the team scored 4 goals. That makes the scoring numbers I showed earlier look even worse.

 

[Super Cake]

I f***ing hate this win one lose one pattern. I hated when the Sens did it and now I am hating that the Knights are doing it. This shit needs to stop right f***ing now.

 

[ltsthinaz]

I forgot to mention that in the game against Montreal, Tuch played and scored a goal, Eakin had 2 assists (his only points of the season!) and Glass had a goal. And the team scored 4 goals. That makes the scoring numbers I showed earlier look even worse.

Obvious answer - build a real third line that can score and defend and take some pressure over the Marchy-Karlsson-SMith line. I'd favor moving Glass to second line center and dropping Stastny to third line with Eakin and Tuch/Carrier as wings, with Roy inserted for Carrier on fourth.

 

[ER89]

I don't understand how we look so bad in OT... it baffles the mind.

On the bright side, great game by Subban

Hey is he always this good? :/? Or a classic case of getting up for one as it is his hometown?

 

[Nevada Jones]

Hey is he always this good? :/? Or a classic case of getting up for one as it is his hometown?

He's had his moments, but often they're bad ones. Inconsistent and often injured. But if he could have games like this more often, it sure would take a load off Flower.

 

[ER89]

He's had his moments, but often they're bad ones. Inconsistent and often injured. But if he could have games like this more often, it sure would take a load off Flower.

(leaf fan so didn't quite now). Thank you for the info. I also had a question re: glass. Seems like some fans think he should be sent down? He was absolutely fantastic yesterday imo. Is that an anomaly or is he consistently doing this and just doesn't have the line mates to capitalize in terms of stats?

 

[IceNeophyte]

(leaf fan so didn't quite now). Thank you for the info. I also had a question re: glass. Seems like some fans think he should be sent down? He was absolutely fantastic yesterday imo. Is that an anomaly or is he consistently doing this and just doesn't have the line mates to capitalize in terms of stats?

There are some here (ahem) who believe that a rookie centerman can't play wing on an NHL team and be a great centerman in the future.

I agree with you, he's fun to watch and I'm happy he's up, even if it means slumming it on the wing.

 

[HanSolo]

There are some here (ahem) who believe that a rookie centerman can't play wing on an NHL team and be a great centerman in the future.

I agree with you, he's fun to watch and I'm happy he's up, even if it means slumming it on the wing.

When did I say can't? I said Gallant is risking his development potential playing him on the wing with two guys who have had zero puck management ability thus resulting in Glass spending the majority of his early formative days chasing after the puck. That cross crease pass 5 on 5 that Glass almost scored on is the most dangerous chance the third line has had since Eakin returned from injury and spoiler alert, it only happened because Marchessault hadn't made a line change and was the one with the puck skills to feed him. When it's Eakin/Pirri/Nosek the majority of Glass' growth is built around chasing the puck around the ice. He's not learning how to win faceoffs in a game setting, outside of a couple powerplay minutes a game he's not honing his ability to perform in set offensive plays because his linemates have dead sticks. The only thing he's consistently having the opportunity to refine is his defensive zone play. And that's fine if we're developing a future middle 6 defensive winger. Not with the guy who is supposed to be our number 1 center someday.

I never said he can't still be a great center. I'm just saying the situation he's in now is not ideal to optimize the chance that he gets there. And especially because Eakin is contributing f*** all offensively and the line is offensively dead, Turk might as well let Glass have the center slot and get minutes playing the position and taking faceoffs. It's one thing to get to participate in faceoff drills in practice where there's no stakes involved in losing a draw. It's another to hone the skill in a game setting where it matters. So again, not saying this situation precludes him from being a great center but if he ends up a more average second liner it's gonna be hard not to attribute it to Gallant treating him more like a piece on the chessboard than an asset that needs to be handled properly for maximum future returns.

 

[IceNeophyte]

When did I say can't? I said Gallant is risking his development potential playing him on the wing with two guys who have had zero puck management ability thus resulting in Glass spending the majority of his early formative days chasing after the puck. That cross crease pass 5 on 5 that Glass almost scored on is the most dangerous chance the third line has had since Eakin returned from injury and spoiler alert, it only happened because Marchessault hadn't made a line change and was the one with the puck skills to feed him. When it's Eakin/Pirri/Nosek the majority of Glass' growth is built around chasing the puck around the ice. He's not learning how to win faceoffs in a game setting, outside of a couple powerplay minutes a game he's not honing his ability to perform in set offensive plays because his linemates have dead sticks. The only thing he's consistently having the opportunity to refine is his defensive zone play. And that's fine if we're developing a future middle 6 defensive winger. Not with the guy who is supposed to be our number 1 center someday.

I never said he can't still be a great center. I'm just saying the situation he's in now is not ideal to optimize the chance that he gets there. And especially because Eakin is contributing **** all offensively and the line is offensively dead, Turk might as well let Glass have the center slot and get minutes playing the position and taking faceoffs. It's one thing to get to participate in faceoff drills in practice where there's no stakes involved in losing a draw. It's another to hone the skill in a game setting where it matters. So again, not saying this situation precludes him from being a great center but if he ends up a more average second liner it's gonna be hard not to attribute it to Gallant treating him more like a piece on the chessboard than an asset that needs to be handled properly for maximum future returns.

You've said many times in many different ways that playing him 3W will ruin his future as a star center.

Tarkanian used to say he worked his guys so hard in practice that they looked forward to an actual game so they could take it easy a little bit.

In a poor twist of that, I think if you break a player in with less-than-optimal linemates, and he has to figure out how to make that work, and off-position to boot, centering a line containing two of Stone, Patches, Smith would be a joy. Marchessault would still be a pain in the butt because he won't shut up.

 

[Nevada Jones]

So whose that's an L, whose got the Next GDT @Nevada Jones I'm looking at you,

WTH?!?

 

[theslatcher]

I ****ing hate this win one lose one pattern. I hated when the Sens did it and now I am hating that the Knights are doing it. This **** needs to stop right ****ing now.

As long as all losses are in overtime I'm fine with it.

 

[HanSolo]

You've said many times in many different ways that playing him 3W will ruin his future as a star center.

Tarkanian used to say he worked his guys so hard in practice that they looked forward to an actual game so they could take it easy a little bit.

In a poor twist of that, I think if you break a player in with less-than-optimal linemates, and he has to figure out how to make that work, and off-position to boot, centering a line containing two of Stone, Patches, Smith would be a joy. Marchessault would still be a pain in the butt because he won't shut up.

Lol I never said will ruin his future as a star center (maybe one time on a post game beer drunk rant) what I said and have continued to say is the current status quo can inhibit his potential to get there. The problem with this "he'll be fine" logic is it presupposes that every promising young player will reach their potential cap regardless of the circumstances regarding their development. Under that logic why not just throw every top pick right into the NHL and just let them figure it out?

Can Glass figure out how to be a 1C in spite of being placed in a situation that does not foster that style of play or adapt him to the requisite responsibilities of the position, or even develop his NHL level offensive game? Sure. It can happen. He's talented and smart enough. But when considering what is best for maximizing his potential and minimizing the risk of any regression from his potential cap, this sure as shit ain't it. And all because we couldn't fathom the atrocity of trying to move a pending UFA with zero goals to the wing. Or maybe try a new lineup that lets Glass play with competent forward talents.

But I never tried to suggest that if he doesn't get off the third line wing he can't possibly hit his potential cap. It's just gonna be harder for him to get there and in having that difficulty and playing with guys who might as well not have sticks in the offensive zone, there is at least some risk that the present situation could harm his top end potential. And I don't think it's a risk worth taking with a top prospect with star upside.

I dump these walls of text specifically so I'm not misunderstood but clearly I've failed. If I actually believed Glass was doomed I could make my point with a single line: "Glass is doomed and Gallant is the one who killed him" but that's not the kind of thing I say.

Edit: also why is it a rookie's job to make our third scoring line work? Why isn't it the coach's job to notice its not working? Glass can't make Pirri and Eakin make better decisions with the puck. He just can't. There's a reason why Glass looks like an actually useful player on the powerplay or when by happenstance a top 6 player ends up on his line or he ends up on one of their's cause of a transitional line change, but 5 on 5 with the third line he mostly disappears in the shift to shift tradition of running around the ice cause the third line can't hold possession. Like I said. If Eakin and Pirri can't competently sustain offensive zone time let alone a set play then at least let Glass have the center spot.

I mean can you tell me what benefit we're getting from Eakin in 5 on 5 play?

 

[HanSolo]

I mean that, to me just goes to a bigger problem than just how Glass is being handled. In every single game since Eakin returned from injury even the fourth line is able to sustain more offensive zone time or at least keep pucks deep longer than the third line.

It is a completely limp appendage on the body of this team.

Edit: looked it up and the sight test lines up with the metrics. Pirri and Eakin have the worst CF% and CFrel. To those that don't know if the CF number is above 50, any value above that is time spent controlling the puck. Someone like Stone is at 55.2. Last year the worst CF% number on the team was Eakin with 49.7, just a hair under neutral. This year, Pirri and Eakin are at 40.0 and 40.7 respectively. So Stone, a fantastic possession player is only 5.2 above 50. Pirri and Eakin are 10 under neutral. Meaning they are controlling the puck far less than they are chasing it.

And no surprise, Glass is the next worst possession player but is considerably better than those two at 46.6 CF%

 

[Vegas07]

Hey is he always this good? :/? Or a classic case of getting up for one as it is his hometown?

He has looked better this season. He looked great in the one period he played against Arizona (he got injured in that game). And he looked fine against Winnipeg. The rest of the team stopped playing in that game after the 2nd quarter.

 

[Vegas07]

(leaf fan so didn't quite now). Thank you for the info. I also had a question re: glass. Seems like some fans think he should be sent down? He was absolutely fantastic yesterday imo. Is that an anomaly or is he consistently doing this and just doesn't have the line mates to capitalize in terms of stats?

I’m still waiting for Pirri and Eakin to score their first goal. Zykov never scored a goal either in the 7 games he played in. 0 goals in 30 games combined for those players this season. That is who Glass has been playing with. I never thought out of those 3 that I would be happiest with how Zykov has played (well, before the failed drug test anyway).

Oh, and Alex Tuch scored a goal in his first game back, got injured again in his second game, and you can see why he is really missed.