- Dec 31, 2017
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But from the get go you were telling us that we were finally playing NHL hockey, that this is what it is like when you have a coach that lets the players play. Only recently have you sang another tune.
GDT: Game 10 | Columbus @ New Jersey | 2 PM EST
- Thread starter CBJWerenski8
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MissADD
Registered User
I think the problem with the defense is not so much the players as players themselves, but the defense scheme. I don't hate any of the players individually, but the way they play or they are told to play doesn't mix. As glad as I was that they Jackets didn't pay Seth Jones (not that he would sign here) what he got from Chicago, he was a great partner for Z. I feel like this group isn't meshing with each other. Maybe come the deadline trade a Peeke or Gavrikov, a Boqvist or a Bean. Then in the off season, bring in a new coaching staff (Trotz) and possibly a new GM and go forward. There is a foundation there, problem is the structure being build on top of it makes no sense.
I would hope 4th. Let’s be honest, even this defense wouldn’t be this hopeless under Torts or Trotz
Gaudreau and Laine are slaughtering the opposition in metrics when they are on the ice together. The goals will come. Lines are split up to kickstart other players as well, not just because "it didn't work".
Laine and Gaudreau are the last two players you guys should be worried about right now.
Laine and Gaudreau are the last two players you guys should be worried about right now.
Might be a controversial opinion, but acquiring JG was a Pyrrhic victory for this season (and possibly next). It created outsized and unreasonable expectations that were never going to be possible for us to reach, at least not in the near term. It changed the tenor and tone of how everyone - from the top all the way down to the fans and even the national media - was talking about and thinking of this team.
They overachieved last year at 81 points. Any reversion to the mean by any one player was going to negate most of what JG could be expected to add. And what we're seeing is a massive reversion in multiple areas of the roster.
We entered this season with virtually all of the same question marks we had at the end of the season: do we have NHL-level goaltending? Do we have legitimate 2-6 defensemen? Is our potential superstar sniper winger an actual thing or a mercurial one-trick pony? Do we have an NHL-level 2C? Or even a 3C?
Our current state was entirely predictable, but the shine on JG was blinding.
They overachieved last year at 81 points. Any reversion to the mean by any one player was going to negate most of what JG could be expected to add. And what we're seeing is a massive reversion in multiple areas of the roster.
We entered this season with virtually all of the same question marks we had at the end of the season: do we have NHL-level goaltending? Do we have legitimate 2-6 defensemen? Is our potential superstar sniper winger an actual thing or a mercurial one-trick pony? Do we have an NHL-level 2C? Or even a 3C?
Our current state was entirely predictable, but the shine on JG was blinding.
I agree about Jenner, Sillinger, and maybe Roslovic. Roslovic is the type where he isn't going to fix any team problems but if the team is okay he'll be an okay 2nd liner. So I'd set him aside. Sillinger can go down, I don't know why they're hanging on to him. The topline wingers are bad at retrievals and that does make it tough to find a fit for them at center. I'm not sure Jenner is that great at it either.
Kuraly isn't even part of that discussion. Lars uses him to take D zone draws and chase the puck up ice and get a O zone whistle. And he's good at doing that as a 4C.
I think by next year we should be icing a D group that doesn't include Gudbranson in the top 6D - he can play sparingly as a fighter and get bought out eventually. By the numbers, that alone will push our D group much closer to average.
I agree with what you're saying about the expectations this year getting way out of whack (largely because of the signing) and that mismatch with reality has put a dark cloud on the team.
A "Pyrrhic victory" would imply some irreparable long term damage from the JG signing, and I don't think that is the case. You never pass up getting a player of that caliber on a deal that good, and he legitimately improves the long run outlook substantially.
KJ Dangler
Registered User
I don’t have a different tune.. if you look last yr , and this yr ..my view .. it’s about getting best draft pick possible , about playing todays nhl, … I’m totally fine with losing , bottoming out and getting elite talent in the draft , and been consistent in stating that . I was in camp if getting rid of Nyquist , playing guys like Marchenko , Kj , Chinakov , get them experience , playing the right way , and draft in the top 3
As someone who thinks that vying to have consistent opinions is foolhardy (something something hobgoblin of small minds...), let me tell you that you have been very inconsistent.
Or rather it seems to follow a transparent pattern - new coach good, old coach bad.
KJ Dangler
Registered User
Nope.. wasn’t a fan of torts and how he coached , not the person . Don’t like coaches that try to take skill out of the game , mucking up the neutral zone .. I feel like when Torts was brought in , we ran away skilled players , masked the lack of talent with his defense first trapping system . Was Larsen my first choice , nope … but he atleast let’s his players play todays hockey. Some of his recent decisions scream Torts .. how he deferred to his chosen few workman like players .. but I’m realistic .. this team was never a playoff contender .. the way they are playing has nothing to do with Bjorkstrand not being here . Rather , they have no #1 or #2 C … and they have a few good young defenseman , but the unit as a whole is bottom 3 in nhl .
I think the system change this year has created confusion , and they look terrible . But make no mistake, I’ve been consistent on playing a skilled game , and the need to draft top 3 . I’m totally fine with us sucking this yr if it allows us to finally get that elite center we have always needed
- Dec 31, 2017
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Yeah, you have changed your tune big time on Larsen.
I get what you are saying with the draft of players and all, but I don't agree with it. I am not fine with losing. Watching the Indians/Browns lose all my younger life was not entertaining. I also don't feel that is the right way to build a team. I may be wrong about that, but I just don't. I can't figure out how you can teach young players to play the right way in a losing environment.
I don't like what I am seeing from our vet players, and I question if we have the right kind of older players that will benifit the younger guys. I hope I am wrong on that, because I am not in the room and have no idea what goes on behind the scenes or in practice. I just have to listen to the fluff the reporters and tv guys have to say and figure out if it seems to be what is happening.
What I would like to see is Larsen figure out whatever it is he is trying to do and get these guys playing better. Also, see the players respond and get thier games in order. To me, them responding to the mess this season is turning into, and right the ship and play some solid hockey the rest of the year would be the best thing that can happen to these guys. Learning to deal with adversity and coming out on the other side in better shape would be huge for a team that wants to be in the playoffs in the next couple of seasons. I really don't want to play for a draft spot.
Double-Shift Lasse
Just post better
Ive been watching a bit this season and one thing I've noticed is that Werenski is pretty unimpressive, and he has a massive salary. He had an interview where he was talking about trying to play like Makar but when I watch Weresnki he just doesn't skate or move very quickly. Maybe CBJ fans know differently but he looks like I bit of an albatross from what Ive seen so far this season.
From that interview he clearly understood himself to be a different type of player from Makar and Hughes.
I think this is what a very good defenseman looks like on a bad team. I've seen it plenty of times. Werenski isn't bad.
And he is deceptively fast, not a slow player at all.
I'd actually like it if he worked on his vision and tried to be like the top playmaking D. You can train yourself to head check more (looking around, loosening up the neck). He has excellent execution on shots but tends to look straight ahead only and misses pass opportunities.
KJ Dangler
Registered User
I’m not for canning Larsen.. are their decisions he’s making that seem a lot like Torts.. yes , atleast in my eyes . For example , Johnson was electric with Gudreau and Laine , so much so , Laine is praising him up for 2 awards this season, yet Larsen goes away from that . And since then , nothing has remotely worked with that line .
The Foudy scratch after 2 points in his debut was puzzling..
I hear what you’re saying about the Indians , but where would they be as a franchise if they didn’t act as a farm team for the big market teams and sell off all their good players .
Look at the cavs , they went all in for a couple years getting top
Picks in the draft , and now are in position to be a team that can do serious damage , this yr and for the foreseeable future .
This franchise has done it wrong since day one , where Doug Mac was desperate to create an ultra competitive team day one … which caused us to miss out on elite talent , winning meaningless games , always to pick outside of the difference makers . And the times we were bad enough to big high, we drafted Rick Nash , who turned out to be pretty good . This is the year to suck .. we need to embrace it , sell off Voracek , Nyquist , Gavrikov , Kuraly , play the young kids, or at minimum If your worried about Johnson , Sillinger , Jiricek , send them all to Cleveland , and make sure we secure a top 3 pick. Nearly every team in recent times that has won the cup , got elite players picking at the top of the draft .. there is always a large gap between the elite players and the pick we end up with , and it’s imperative we land a #1 C in this draft. Having an elite #1C , and a very good #2 C seems to be the recipe to success in the nhl, coupled with good defenseman ofcourse , which we already have coming
Iron Balls McGinty
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- Aug 5, 2005
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He's honestly the least of my concerns. I don't like the way any of our D played last year. I'm not on board the Bean and Boqvist train at all. They are all soft except Blankenberg and so far he's fragile.
Farmboy Patty
Senior Hockey Analyst
- Nov 2, 2017
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Roslovic should play W instead of C, because he’s always been a mediocre playmaker at best. His strenghts come to bettet use at wing.
- Dec 31, 2017
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I think there is going to be a lot of Torts like decisions being that he was pretty much mentored by him. I don't have a problem with that if it is just little things he is doing, as Torts is a very good coach, whether you want to admit it or not. But Larsen definitely needs to establish himself, and he may be trying to do that. I must have missed the part with Johnson playing with Laine and Johnny, but I think if there was really something there, Larson would have stuck with it, after all the worse he looks, the quicker he is out of a job. He still needs to show something positive here if he want to get another head coaching job.
I wasn't too puzzled with the Foudy decision, not sure if the Jackets may think they have better options than him or not. His last two games were kind of meh, but it has only been three games.
I wasn't here at the beginning so I really have no comment, but looking at the Jackets history and the new Browns history, there are a ton of similarities, with the teams, and the fanbase sentiments. I can see why people are losing faith. I walked away from the Browns after the move. I still have tickets because my buddy still goes, well he actually has given up on them this year and has been selling his tickets, and I am unable to get them out of my name without losing them and going on the waitlist. I think I have been to five games since the return, and even though I live ten minutes from the Browns stadium, I would rather drive two hours to see the Jackets.
Also, quick point on the Indians, they really don't act as a farm team anymore. The last two big names they moved, Lindor and Clevenger, both trades produced guys that all played this year and took the Yankees to the brink of elimination this year. Actually how the Indians have rebuilt their teams is how I wish the Jackets would do it. I know it's different sports and all, but the front office has a clear plan how they go about their business, stick to it, and have a solid scouting department and farm system to develop players. They didn't even have to make a trade to get a rental and lose prospects in the process. Almost everyone they brought up contributed. Pretty good for the youngest, lowest paid team.
Say Hey Kid
War, children, it's just a shot away
Columbus' Goaltending is Subpar – But Show Some Respect
The Columbus Blue Jackets are struggling in their own zone and in net, and both will need improvement quickly. But the abuse from fans must stop.
thehockeynews.com
IMO, The impact they are making in relation to their salary/cap hit, is an issue for the team regarding all 3 of Laine, Gaudreau and Werenski.
And Elvis, and Voracek, and to a slightly smaller extent Nyquist.
You get the point.
TaketheCannoli
RIP
Getting rid of Bjorsktrand is a symptom. The Jackets have lost or gotten rid of the guys that can do those things. Some got old, some wanted out, some were traded for picks.
Jarmo hasn't replaced them. Now there aren't many left.
TaketheCannoli
RIP
Who jumps on the ice and holds his teammates accountable? Who goes out and competes for the puck? Who makes a solid hit and takeaway?
I'll give you that Jarmo expected Kuraly, Jenner, Robinson etc. to do it. Are they? No.
I saw one guy doing it for a game or two, Blankenburg. We saw the impact he had on the whole team through his competitive level, then he got injured. Who else?
You're making my point. Thanks Lack of leadership. Wrong guys?
Cowumbus
Registered User
There are some fans that are… weird.Columbus' Goaltending is Subpar – But Show Some Respect
The Columbus Blue Jackets are struggling in their own zone and in net, and both will need improvement quickly. But the abuse from fans must stop.
I’m not telling anyone how to be a fan, but waiting on players to leave NWA is kind of weird to me. Not to mention telling a player that they “should go die”
At the same time, you are a professional athlete so some of that stuff I guess should be “expected.” Crazy.
