Post-Game Talk: Game #1: Sharks defeat Canucks 4-1 - Part II

[arsmaster*]

Anyone notice San Jose's wrinkle they made to the neutral zone drop pass on the PP?

I thought it was really creative.

I wish I was better at descriptive writing so I could explain it better (or had the skills to pause still videos and create images).

What I saw was they had the forward they wanted to gain the zone with the puck (Thornton IIRC) stationed at the offensive blueline, and as the puck moved up the ice, he retreated from that position to drop back around the center face-off circle to get the puck. It's basically the same play as the drop pass to someone coming from deep, it just isn't telegraphed. It actually reminded me of a drill my kids do in peewee. I liked it, hopefully our staff took note.

I could see it working really well, with Kesler pushed way up the ice stretching the neutral zone out and drawing defenseman to take notice of him only for him to drop back while gaining speed for the drop pass.

We need that constant motion, even in the neutral zone. Not enough movement on the PP.

------

The PK was absolutely phenomenal last night though. Particularly Burrows and dare I say, Bieksa.

 

[PhilMick]

IMO, should have traded Edler before his NTC kicked in.

I see him as someone who folds under Torts once the pressure is applied based on his personality.

Hopefully I'm wrong.

Honestly, he's looked a little better than he did the last year or two, Sully and/or Torts might be getting through to him. A bit. Whether he can endure it all season is another story.

 

[arsmaster*]

I laughed. I thought the game was fine as well, if disappointing.

On the bright side, I thought Chris (I prefer to call him "Higgins", but that might seem weird to you) had an excellent game until that one moment. I was actually thinking about how effective he'd been about 30 seconds before that. Then as that play developed I was like, "Nooo... Noooooo. Get the puck out -- CTHULHU SAVE US.

I betcha Chris, or Higgins, was probably more upset with shooting the puck into Niemi's pad, when he had the whole top of the net to score into, than the gaffe in his own zone.

Both were turning points, but the missed shot could have changed the complexion, we were already behind the 8 ball when he coughed up the puck in his own end.

 

[Proto]

I called a poster an a-hole last night cause his sarcasm pissed me off. But it was a costly play. I thought he looked fine too just a bonehead play. The team is going to lose games. It happens. Coulda been worse, coulda been better. Bounce back on Saturday. 81 left in the season

I get angry at people and I don't even know the guys on the team. I wouldn't be able to handle posting here if I did, so good on you.

I think he's the least of the problems this team will have. Works hard, always seems to do what the coach wants him to (even it it's not his best utilization). No complaints from me. Lots of players trying to do a bit too much last night to generate offense anyway. Sharks are a good club.

I just felt a bit bad for Luongo, as I thought he played a really strong game.

 

[ItsAllPartOfThePlan]

Honestly, he's looked a little better than he did the last year or two, Sully and/or Torts might be getting through to him. A bit. Whether he can endure it all season is another story.

Agreed. Thought Hamhuis and Garrison had worse games.

 

[Reign Nateo]

The Canucks just don't have enough quality top six scoring forwards to compete with the likes of San Jose or LA. It's quite obvious and plain as day for Mike Gillis to see!!

The line-up is chalked full of bottom six forwards trying to play top six minutes.

This is my concern as well. I don't think you can chalk it up to bottom 6 being the issue either. Quite frankly, our top players are not as good as the top teams in the West. Sedins and Kesler are solid players, but that's where the star power ends and the top teams have better stars and better depth. In Chicago after Kane and Toews, there's Saad, Hossa and Sharp. In San Jose after Marleau and Thornton there's Couture, Havlat, Burns and Pavelski. In LA after Kopitar and Brown there's Mike Richards and Jeff Carter. Then you throw in the young skill players all these teams have up front and the Canucks just don't match up.

It's only one game but that's my fear for the season. Our top players just aren't as good as other top players and we're a level below depth wise. Hard to have much hope for anything other than a quick playoff exit at best. Very hard to add depth in this league these days as well.

It's a solid team, but at this stage, they look a long way from being a championship team.

 

[fRESH88]

sharks fan checking in. great game guys

 

[Mr. Canucklehead]

sharks fan checking in. great game guys

I thought the first two periods had a really great tempo, actually, until the Sharks started running away with it in the third. So yeah - great game.

 

[tantalum]

It's a solid team, but at this stage, they look a long way from being a championship team.

Thing is, most of the issues last night had little to do with ability from my viewpoint. It had to do with guys still needing to think things through resulting in slower than normal reactions, bad decisions etc. That's a new system type of thing IMO.

So I agree they look a long ways away from a championship team, however, give it another couple dozen games and I think we will be seeing a completely different looking team. One that may just be able to go to toe to toe with the best. I think it's important to remember that San Jose has been playing their system for quite some time. There is no learning curve or thinking for them right now.

 

[canuck4life16]

Still think we will surprise people and some player play out of position due to injuries

 

[MrShift4]

Sorry about Chris' gaffe. I'll try to get his contract voided.

Didn't someone pass him the puck when he was already going in the wrong direction though?

Sure he could have handled it better but I don't think he should take 100% of the blame.

 

[Reign Nateo]

Thing is, most of the issues last night had little to do with ability from my viewpoint. It had to do with guys still needing to think things through resulting in slower than normal reactions, bad decisions etc. That's a new system type of thing IMO.

So I agree they look a long ways away from a championship team, however, give it another couple dozen games and I think we will be seeing a completely different looking team. One that may just be able to go to toe to toe with the best. I think it's important to remember that San Jose has been playing their system for quite some time. There is no learning curve or thinking for them right now.

Sure there will be a learning curve and they will improve, I just think when it got to the point where the Canucks really needed a goal, it didn't look like it was imminent at any time. There's not a lot of killer instinct or guys with a high level of skill that can bury their chances. When the Sharks get healthy, their lines will be something like this:

Marleau - Couture - Havlat
Hertl - Thornton - Burns
Kennedy - Pavelski - Torres
Sheppard - Desjardins - Wingels

I don't think we compare. Every line has guys that can burn you if given the chance. Every line has speed, size and skill. We have a lot of limtited and responsible players, but no gamebreakers. Personally I don't see us matching up well with San Jose, Chicago or LA. Been a problem for a while, where these teams have young offensive talent (Toffoli, Saad, Nieto, Hertl etc.) the Canucks have Mike Santorelli and Brad Richardson. Where these teams have legit 2nd line players (Sharp, Hossa, Couture/Thornton, Richards, Carter) we have Kesler and with some 3rd line wingers. Where the Canucks have Dalpe centreing Sestito and Weise, those teams have legitimate 4th lines.

Of course there's more than just forward groups to it, but that's what I felt the difference was. Just outclassed. San Jose comes in waves and the Canucks just simply did not have the horses to compete over the course of a full game. Which sadly I think will be the case against most top teams this year.

 

[PhilMick]

Still think we will surprise people and some player play out of position due to injuries

Yeah, Booth looked ready to move back to the second line full time. When Kassian's on that line, and Higgy and Hansen are the 3rd line wings, the top 9 will be much more capable.

 

[Reign Nateo]

Didn't someone pass him the puck when he was already going in the wrong direction though?

Sure he could have handled it better but I don't think he should take 100% of the blame.

Thought Higgins played pretty well. He was working hard on the boards and one of the only Canucks that was able to get the puck to the net it seemed.

 

[fRESH88]

I thought the first two periods had a really great tempo, actually, until the Sharks started running away with it in the third. So yeah - great game.

we looked half asleep half way into the game but finally woke up after Brauns goal. Just as a hockey fan in general and all hate aside for the nucks, I get the feel that your guys team as to many open ended questions, a lot of uncertainty.

I was at the game last night and from what I saw, it looks like after our second goal your guys' body language slowly started a downward spiral. kind of like "here we go again." Dont get me wrong I love the rivalry between us but its become stale as of late. Ill take a win every time but as a hockey fan Id like to see the intensity come back.

 

[canuck4life16]

Sure there will be a learning curve and they will improve, I just think when it got to the point where the Canucks really needed a goal, it didn't look like it was imminent at any time. There's not a lot of killer instinct or guys with a high level of skill that can bury their chances. When the Sharks get healthy, their lines will be something like this:

Marleau - Couture - Havlat
Hertl - Thornton - Burns
Kennedy - Pavelski - Torres
Sheppard - Desjardins - Wingels

I don't think we compare. Every line has guys that can burn you if given the chance. Every line has speed, size and skill. We have a lot of limtited and responsible players, but no gamebreakers. Personally I don't see us matching up well with San Jose, Chicago or LA. Been a problem for a while, where these teams have young offensive talent (Toffoli, Saad, Nieto, Hertl etc.) the Canucks have Mike Santorelli and Brad Richardson. Where these teams have legit 2nd line players (Sharp, Hossa, Couture/Thornton, Richards, Carter) we have Kesler and with some 3rd line wingers. Where the Canucks have Dalpe centreing Sestito and Weise, those teams have legitimate 4th lines.

Of course there's more than just forward groups to it, but that's what I felt the difference was. Just outclassed. San Jose comes in waves and the Canucks just simply did not have the horses to compete over the course of a full game. Which sadly I think will be the case against most top teams this year.

we missing KAssasin and Schroeder who pretty make up two third of a line is the same category of Saad Nieto Hertl and Toffoli

 

[Foundational Player]

Although most of the top 9 had disappointing debuts aside from the twins and Burr, haven't read much regarding the play of recently extended Jannik Hansen.

Thought Hansen had an underwhelming game. He wasn't a liability but didn't seem to have the honey badger effect going.

Not sure if he even recorded a hit? Little more passive than usual.

Expect him to take a bigger role on the team, as he is one of the vets up front. Should be seeing more minutes this year so hopes he's able to make the best of any given opportunity.

 

[Lundface*]

Sure there will be a learning curve and they will improve, I just think when it got to the point where the Canucks really needed a goal, it didn't look like it was imminent at any time. There's not a lot of killer instinct or guys with a high level of skill that can bury their chances. When the Sharks get healthy, their lines will be something like this:

Marleau - Couture - Havlat
Hertl - Thornton - Burns
Kennedy - Pavelski - Torres
Sheppard - Desjardins - Wingels

I don't think we compare. Every line has guys that can burn you if given the chance. Every line has speed, size and skill. We have a lot of limtited and responsible players, but no gamebreakers. Personally I don't see us matching up well with San Jose, Chicago or LA. Been a problem for a while, where these teams have young offensive talent (Toffoli, Saad, Nieto, Hertl etc.) the Canucks have Mike Santorelli and Brad Richardson. Where these teams have legit 2nd line players (Sharp, Hossa, Couture/Thornton, Richards, Carter) we have Kesler and with some 3rd line wingers. Where the Canucks have Dalpe centreing Sestito and Weise, those teams have legitimate 4th lines.

Of course there's more than just forward groups to it, but that's what I felt the difference was. Just outclassed. San Jose comes in waves and the Canucks just simply did not have the horses to compete over the course of a full game. Which sadly I think will be the case against most top teams this year.

Yupp and at this point kesler isn't a horse at all. We don't have enough firepower, players that can control the game or turn it around.

We have the Sedins who held their own but behind them it gets ugly.

San Jose has Thornton, Marleau, Couture, Boyle, Pavelski that can control the game....supplement that with Burns and Havlat when healthy.

Chicago has Toews, Kane, Hossa, Keith, Sharp

LA has Kopitar, Richards, Carter, Brown, Doughty

Vancouver has Daniel, Henrik

The year we made the final it was Daniel, Henrik, Kesler, Ehrhoff

The current team can win but it will have to be based purely on hard work and a solid pp

 

[Reign Nateo]

we missing KAssasin and Schroeder who pretty make up two third of a line is the same category of Saad Nieto Hertl and Toffoli

Schroeder is a 5-6 fringe player that can't put up numbers or stay healthy at the highest level. He is not a top prospect and never was outside of the minds of some Canucks fans. I would take any of those players in a heartbeat over Jordan Schroeder.

Kassian looks more like a 4th line banger than top 6 threat at this stage (though I have faith in him). These guys do not have the same talent level as the guys mentioned. Bottom line is he's not going to provide the kind of skill level I was talking about the way these guys can.

Besides, even if you want to consider those guys compareable, that doesn't make up for the chasm in quality between their top 6s on a whole and ours. Overall we just have a much weaker forward group compared to the top teams in the West.

 

[canuck4life16]

Schroeder is a 5-6 fringe player that can't put up numbers or stay healthy at the highest level. He is not a top prospect and never was outside of the minds of some Canucks fans. I would take any of those players in a heartbeat over Jordan Schroeder.

Kassian looks more like a 4th line banger than top 6 threat at this stage (though I have faith in him). These guys do not have the same talent level as the guys mentioned. Bottom line is he's not going to provide the kind of skill level I was talking about the way these guys can.

Besides, even if you want to consider those guys compareable, that doesn't make up for the chasm in quality between their top 6s on a whole and ours. Overall we just have a much weaker forward group compared to the top teams in the West.

Schroeder is a good player you need to give him a chance.....his development is where Hodgson was last year and should take a step forward

 

[Saturated Fats]

Schroeder is a 5-6 fringe player that can't put up numbers or stay healthy at the highest level. He is not a top prospect and never was outside of the minds of some Canucks fans. I would take any of those players in a heartbeat over Jordan Schroeder.

Kassian looks more like a 4th line banger than top 6 threat at this stage (though I have faith in him). These guys do not have the same talent level as the guys mentioned. Bottom line is he's not going to provide the kind of skill level I was talking about the way these guys can.

Besides, even if you want to consider those guys compareable, that doesn't make up for the chasm in quality between their top 6s on a whole and ours. Overall we just have a much weaker forward group compared to the top teams in the West.

Quality for your 10,000th post. Congrats

And I agree wholeheartedly. People who think Schroeder is going to amount to something weren't paying attention last year. He won't be on the roster past this year. He has a modicum of puck skill, but no tenacity, which is an absolute requisite for a small player to succeed. And I too have faith in Kassian (look at how long a PWF like Blake Wheeler took to develop), but he needs to at least start showing flashes soon.

 

[ShouldveDraftedFiala]

Schroeder is a good player you need to give him a chance.....his development is where Hodgson was last year and should take a step forward

Says the guy claiming Jensen is a scoring threat

 

[WinterEmpire]

I can't believe people are giving up on Schroeder already, he looked fine when given an opportunity last year. Let see how he plays this year when he has a chance to stay with the club before we start jumping to conclusions.

 

[Bleach Clean]

Quality for your 10,000th post. Congrats

And I agree wholeheartedly. People who think Schroeder is going to amount to something weren't paying attention last year. He won't be on the roster past this year. He has a modicum of puck skill, but no tenacity, which is an absolute requisite for a small player to succeed. And I too have faith in Kassian (look at how long a PWF like Blake Wheeler looked to develop), but he needs to at least start showing flashes soon.

Count me in as one "who wasn't paying attention last year". I saw a good level puck skill, high hockey IQ, very good speed, and a stocky frame. He's already at a utility level and I would have him on my team than Richardson. Tenacity is a key factor, but it isn't the only factor. If it were, there's no way he projects in the first round in 2009. Yeah, disagree all around.

 

[canuck4life16]

I can't believe people are giving up on Schroeder already, he looked fine when given an opportunity last year. Let see how he plays this year when he has a chance to stay with the club before we start jumping to conclusions.

that was sad about Hodgson and boom he was better