Value of: Gabriel Landeskog

[Legend123]

You said "have the potential for top four minutes" meaning you don't believe anyone on the Avs is already a top 4. Barrie is at worst a top 3 right now that already has the ability and potential to play top pairing with the right partner. EJ is a top pairing and that's been proven to you via what you value most (hero charts).

You can't make a claim and then move the goal posts. That's not how this works.

EJ is easily a top pairing defenseman and easily one on a contender. There's quite a few players on the list you made that EJ is better than right now while some have the potential to be.

Just because you don't like him doesn't make your takes correct. Even adanced stats that you've clung to dearly indicate he is. Now that they don't fit your narrative are they wrong?

i said zadorov and bigras. [MOD]

 

[Avs44]

What?? lol I argued Gallagher was a more effective player on the offensive zone than JvR. As far as im aware, EJ plays D. Stop posting irrelevant info.

You posted HERO charts, shot suppression, possession numbers. POST #60. Shot suppression is a defensive stat, possession is also at least partially a defensive stat as well. Nice try. You also don't get to pretend advanced stats only matter for forwards. I'll take your complete non-answer as you admitting to being a massive hypocrite. I'm done here.

 

[strictlyrandy]

What?? lol I argued Gallagher was a more effective player on the offensive zone than JvR. As far as im aware, EJ plays D. Stop posting irrelevant info.

How is it irrelevant? You argued in that thread that those charts backed up your claims. Now those same charts can't be used to prove your own claims wrong?

You argue that EJ isn't a top pairing defenseman and there's proof he is but now it's irrelevant?

 

[Harambae]

No landeskog isnt going anywhere

 

[Legend123]

How is it irrelevant? You argued in that thread that those charts backed up your claims. Now those same charts can't be used to prove your own claims wrong?

You argue that EJ isn't a top pairing defenseman and there's proof he is but now it's irrelevant?

I used that to proves hes the more effective player. I dint use it to say hes better defensively.
You cant use that to prove he is a top pairing Dman cuz they suggest he isnt one. Usually as a top pairing Dman, if u dont have the advanced numbers of a top pairing Dman, you would have the points and the reputation as one.
btw im not the one who closed that thread, stop being emotional when discussing ur players. lol

 

[strictlyrandy]

I used that to proves hes the more effective player. I dint use it to say hes better defensively.
You cant use that to prove he is a top pairing Dman cuz they suggest he isnt one. Usually as a top pairing Dman, if u dont have the advanced numbers of a top pairing Dman, you would have the points and the reputation as one.

Did you even read his chart?! He has the offensive numbers and the defensive cred (shot suppression) of a top pairing defenseman. Hell even at the top of it it says "COMPLETE TOP PAIRING DEFENSEMAN".

You can't say one chart is good enough for a forward, then a chart that is used for defenders isn't good enough just because it doesn't support your argument.

You say EJ isn't a top pairing defenseman? Prove it. What evidence do you have to support your claims? Proof has been shown (proof you've relied on to support your argument for another player mind you) that he is indeed a top pairing D. What proof do you have to counter that?

 

[strictlyrandy]

I used that to proves hes the more effective player. I dint use it to say hes better defensively.
You cant use that to prove he is a top pairing Dman cuz they suggest he isnt one. Usually as a top pairing Dman, if u dont have the advanced numbers of a top pairing Dman, you would have the points and the reputation as one.
btw im not the one who closed that thread, stop being emotional when discussing ur players. lol

I didn't accuse you of closing the thread. I'm not emotional. I'm being pretty calm. All I'm asking for is proof from you to support your claims. You post hot takes about a player but have no evidence to support these claims, you can't expect people to not call you out on it.

So, it's time. Put up or shut up imo.

 

[Legend123]

Did you even read his chart?! He has the offensive numbers and the defensive cred (shot suppression) of a top pairing defenseman. Hell even at the top of it it says "COMPLETE TOP PAIRING DEFENSEMAN".

You can't say one chart is good enough for a forward, then a chart that is used for defenders isn't good enough just because it doesn't support your argument.

You say EJ isn't a top pairing defenseman? Prove it. What evidence do you have to support your claims? Proof has been shown (proof you've relied on to support your argument for another player mind you) that he is indeed a top pairing D. What proof do you have to counter that?

what the?
Only his shot generation are top pairing and not by that much. lol at at the top it says. Thats his designed role.

EJ doesnt have top pairing Shot supression, nor advanced numbers. Doesnt score many points.

 

[Legend123]

I didn't accuse you of closing the thread. I'm not emotional. I'm being pretty calm. All I'm asking for is proof from you to support your claims. You post hot takes about a player but have no evidence to support these claims, you can't expect people to not call you out on it.

So, it's time. Put up or shut up imo.

No i expect the fans of the player in question to call me out (like u) but i wanna see if fans of other teams see him as one.

He doesnt have advanced numbers of top pairing nor does he produce as one. I can agree that Tanev or Vlasic is a borderline (tanev not Vlasic) top pairing Dman, despite his point total, with how elite he is in his own zone but I dont see that in EJ. http://public.tableau.com/shared/HQ5PP5D3X?:display_count=yes

 

[strictlyrandy]

what the?
Only his shot generation are top pairing and not by that much. lol at at the top it says. Thats his designed role.

EJ doesnt have top pairing Shot supression, nor advanced numbers. Doesnt score many points.

That's the role he played because that's what he is...

He doesn't score many points, but put up 11 goals in 73 games. Hedman only had 10. So does Hedman not score much by that measure since you don't think EJ scores much but you feel Hedman is clearly better?

You feel Shea Weber is an elite shutdown defenseman, yet EJ clearly has better shot suppression than him, so does that not bring EJ up into the top pairing category? I mean really...EJ is a great all around #2 defenseman. Nobody is saying he's elite. They're not saying he's a #1. They're saying he's a solid #2 top pairing defenseman.

You've yet to actually prove he isn't a top pairing defenseman. I argued Weber doesn't suppress shots and isn't a shut down D, you said those weren't relevant, now all of a sudden they're relevant to EJ? Make up your mind.

 

[Legend123]

That's the role he played because that's what he is...

He doesn't score many points, but put up 11 goals in 73 games. Hedman only had 10. So does Hedman not score much by that measure since you don't think EJ scores much but you feel Hedman is clearly better?

You feel Shea Weber is an elite shutdown defenseman, yet EJ clearly has better shot suppression than him, so does that not bring EJ up into the top pairing category? I mean really...EJ is a great all around #2 defenseman. Nobody is saying he's elite. They're not saying he's a #1. They're saying he's a solid #2 top pairing defenseman.

You've yet to actually prove he isn't a top pairing defenseman. I argued Weber doesn't suppress shots and isn't a shut down D, you said those weren't relevant, now all of a sudden they're relevant to EJ? Make up your mind.

I said the Gally vs JvR was irrelevant. And tbh that too is irrelevant. Weber plays top pairing shut down Minutes for Canada, he does the same for Preds and scores 51 points, a considerable amount more than EJ.

He doesn't score many points, but put up 11 goals in 73 games. Hedman only had 10. So does Hedman not score much by that measure since you don't think EJ scores much but you feel Hedman is clearly better?

20 additional points/assists dont massively over match a single goal?? I prefer a Dman that can distribute the puck (like Hedman, whos alot better truth be told) than a D that scored 1 extra goal. lol

 

[Makar Goes Fast]

I said the Gally vs JvR was irrelevant. And tbh that too is irrelevant. Weber plays top pairing shut down Minutes for Canada, he does the same for Preds and scores 51 points, a considerable amount more than EJ.

20 additional points/assists dont massively over match a single goal?? I prefer a Dman that can distribute the puck (like Hedman, whos alot better truth be told) than a D that scored 1 extra goal. lol

so since barrie scores at the eclipse of the best dmen in the league, is barrie a 1D then?

ps check out barries hero chart, its better than webers in literally everything.

 

[Legend123]

so since barrie scores at the eclipse of the best dmen in the league, is barrie a 1D then?

ps check out barries hero chart, its better than webers in literally everything.

He is def better than Weber offensively. But Defensively he isnt a top pairing Dman, until then he wont be. But if he can fix his defensive issues, he will be one of the best D in the league. Only his size would hold him back.

 

[Makar Goes Fast]

He is def better than Weber offensively. But Defensively he isnt a top pairing Dman, until then he wont be. But if he can fix his defensive issues, he will be one of the best D in the league. Only his size would hold him back.

but his hero stats are way better than defensive Juggernaut Weber, on both sides of the puck

 

[Legend123]

but his hero stats are way better than defensive Juggernaut Weber, on both sides of the puck

he gets shelled defensively, doesnt play the pk, doesnt start his shifts in his own zone.

 

[Legend123]

but his hero stats are way better than defensive Juggernaut Weber, on both sides of the puck

is petry a top pairing D?
http://public.tableau.com/shared/QXZ4WY356?:display_count=yes

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

he gets shelled defensively, doesnt play the pk, doesnt start his shifts in his own zone.

The entire Avs team got shelled defensively under Roy. Can you prove it's Barrie and not the team/system?

Tyson Barrie averages more PK time than Leddy, Gostisbehere, and Klingberg, all guys you claimed were obviously better than EJ. So, either PK time matters or it doesn't, you can't have it both ways.

Barrie only started 48.6% of his 5v5 shifts in the O-Zone last year. Weber started 51% of his 5v5 shifts in the O-Zone. Good try, but the stats don't back you up.

 

[Makar Goes Fast]

is petry a top pairing D?
http://public.tableau.com/shared/QXZ4WY356?:display_count=yes

nope doesnt put up enough points, if he put up more, like say barrie then yes.

 

[Legend123]

The entire Avs team got shelled defensively under Roy. Can you prove it's Barrie and not the team/system?

Tyson Barrie averages more PK time than Leddy, Gostisbehere, and Klingberg, all guys you claimed were obviously better than EJ. So, either PK time matters or it doesn't, you can't have it both ways.

Barrie only started 48.6% of his 5v5 shifts in the O-Zone last year. Weber started 51% of his 5v5 shifts in the O-Zone. Good try, but the stats don't back you up.

Weber plays pk no? Yeah Barrie is better than Leddy and Ghost. Imo Barrie>EJ. So what u trying to say?

 

[Legend123]

nope doesnt put up enough points, if he put up more, like say barrie then yes.

so why is EJ a top pairing Dman?

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

no offense but none are top pairing Dmen. Some (Zadorov, Bigras) have the potential for top 4 minutes but def not anything great. Barrie is a good top 4. Beauchemin an ideal bottom pairing. EJ an ideal #3.

The only accurate thing you just posted is "some (Zadorov, Bigras) have the potential for top 4 minutes".

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

Weber plays pk no? Yeah Barrie is better than Leddy and Ghost. Imo Barrie>EJ. So what u trying to say?

EJ plays PK, so he's better than Barrie, OEL, Ghost, Leddy and Klingberg, right? Or does that only work for the guys you think are better?

 

[Legend123]

EJ plays PK, so he's better than Barrie, OEL, Ghost, Leddy and Klingberg, right? Or does that only work for the guys you think are better?

What?? what u trying to say? I said Weber plays tough minutes vs opponents top lines, PK, and plays 30 minutes per game or so. Stop with that PK none sense plz

 

[Legend123]

The only accurate thing you just posted is "some (Zadorov, Bigras) have the potential for top 4 minutes".

Why do u think the avs ranked 23th in GA?

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

so why is EJ a top pairing Dman?

Petry's career high in points is 25.

EJ has scored 39 twice. He had 23 points in 48 games last season before getting injured (another 39 point pace).

EJ also started only 43% of the 5v5 shifts in the O-Zone last season. I don't think that helped his point totals, but he still eclipsed Petry's career high in only 73 games.