Gabriel Landeskog vs Adam Larsson

[EdAVSfan]

This guy has no hockey sense, hence the doubt that he will 'stabilize' any d core.

He needs someone like Adam Larsson with immense hockey sense and IQ to take pressure off him.

He's only 23! Wait 2 or 3 more years before we label him. Defensemen notoriously take their time to show their true abilities.

 

[nowhereman]

You NEVER pass up a future Lidstrom-like player.

EVER.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and make the bold prediction that Adam Larsson doesn't go down in history as one of the five greatest defensemen in the history of the game. That's not saying he won't be a great player but he's not some sort of sure-fire prospect that's guaranteed to to rack up six or seven Norris trophies in his career.

If a team needs a gritty, potential first line Selke winner or a speedy offensive star, it's not a stretch to think that a team might pick Landeskog or RNH. There is no Crosby-like talent in this draft, which makes picking first a bit of a crap shoot.

 

[BluechipBulletin]

I haven't seen people rave like this about a guy based on nothing tangible since Jani Rita. I remember when Rita was supposed to be the best thing since sliced bread. And to be fair, Rita turned out to be a pretty nice player...in the SM-Liiga.

If I were picking top-5, I wouldn't touch Larsson with a ten foot pole. When a prospect regresses during his draft year while playing for the same team he did the season prior, that's not a good sign.

 

[His Beardliness*]

I haven't seen people rave like this about a guy based on nothing tangible since Jani Rita. I remember when Rita was supposed to be the best thing since sliced bread. And to be fair, Rita turned out to be a pretty nice player...in the SM-Liiga.

If I were picking top-5, I wouldn't touch Larsson with a ten foot pole. When a prospect regresses during his draft year while playing for the same team he did the season prior, that's not a good sign.

You call out people for making assessments based on nothing then go on to make your own uneducated assumption. How has he regressed according to you?

 

[BluechipBulletin]

You call out people for making assessments based on nothing then go on to make your own uneducated assumption. How has he regressed according to you?

His role at Skelleftea has increased from last season to this one, yet his production has dropped by almost 50%. His shot isn't hitting the net at the same rate it did in 09-10, and you can see that manifested in his goal total drop from 4 in 09-10 to 1 this season. His gap control isn't what it was last year, as both SEL and international players have discovered the hole in his backskating abilities. Now, it's a simple matter of chipping the puck along the boards and accelerating past him...he turns to try to try to catch up but his transitions are slow and he doesn't have the footspeed to catch up to the play. When the puck is on his stick, his indecision has led to him being clobbered along the boards, and he has suffered two injuries because of that.

He's being billed as a "shutdown defenseman", but a shutdown D needs to either have the hockey sense to angle his man to the boards or the speed, footspeed and agility to keep up with his man. And if he's not going to be a puck-rusher, he needs to be able to move the puck quickly and effectively, which he doesn't.

If you're looking at taking a D in the top five, you want someone who plays rock solid D, hits, moves the puck really well, skates well or has a booming shot. You're looking for at least two or three of those traits, but Larsson doesn't appear to have any of them in abundance.

 

[dream catcher]

His role at Skelleftea has increased from last season to this one, yet his production has dropped by almost 50%. His shot isn't hitting the net at the same rate it did in 09-10, and you can see that manifested in his goal total drop from 4 in 09-10 to 1 this season. His gap control isn't what it was last year, as both SEL and international players have discovered the hole in his backskating abilities. Now, it's a simple matter of chipping the puck along the boards and accelerating past him...he turns to try to try to catch up but his transitions are slow and he doesn't have the footspeed to catch up to the play. When the puck is on his stick, his indecision has led to him being clobbered along the boards, and he has suffered two injuries because of that.

He's being billed as a "shutdown defenseman", but a shutdown D needs to either have the hockey sense to angle his man to the boards or the speed, footspeed and agility to keep up with his man. And if he's not going to be a puck-rusher, he needs to be able to move the puck quickly and effectively, which he doesn't.

If you're looking at taking a D in the top five, you want someone who plays rock solid D, hits, moves the puck really well, skates well or has a booming shot. You're looking for at least two or three of those traits, but Larsson doesn't appear to have any of them in abundance.

Those are his strengths, basically every scouting report i have read says that. Maybe because of his injuries you alluded to, he isn't playing 100%, but you don't just lose those abilities.

 

[Talentless Practise*]

Two things.

1. You can't compare players of different positions.

2. You NEVER compare players of different positions because there are different facets of their games which out weigh each other. Comparing similar positions would be more reasonable as you can nitpick the same columns of attributes as each of them share the same ones.

 

[BluechipBulletin]

Those are his strengths, basically every scouting report i have read says that. Maybe because of his injuries you alluded to, he isn't playing 100%, but you don't just lose those abilities.

I'd assume that most of the "scouting reports" you've read haven't come from actual scouts. Larsson gets a lot of run based on his (largely undeserved) reputation and based on people's proclivity for projecting based on players who were hyped in similar ways in the past (with Larsson, I've read people who called him big and physical and compared him to Hedman because they're both Swedish D in the running for #1 overall...last year, it was Seguin being compared to Duchene because his stock rose at the end and his production jumped so much his draft year).

You're right, you don't lose those abilities. But I do think that you're seeing Larsson exposed by the speed and talent of the SEL level, while the "scouting reports" are based on what people saw of him compared to players who were a lot younger and a lot less skilled than the grown men in the SEL.

Larsson hasn't really been good with Skelleftea, especially not this year. He hasn't helped that team play better and he hasn't been a difference maker. He hasn't shown too much that would indicate that he's going to become a dominant player, and you need to see that from a top five pick.

I think he'll develop into a very good 2nd pairing D, but that's not worth a top five pick.

 

[PeterTheGreat]

This guy has no hockey sense, hence the doubt that he will 'stabilize' any d core.

He needs someone like Adam Larsson with immense hockey sense and IQ to take pressure off him.

Haha I call bullsh**. EJ's hockey sense is in line with other defencemen his age. For the most part it is very good, once in a while he'll try to do too much on his own and that's when he gets into trouble. These are things young dmen learn over time. He just finished his third season. When did Weber start becoming the dman he is now? It took him a while too. Same with Pronger.

It seems like everyone expects a Doughty like start to an NHL career. That is the exception not the rule. By the way, Dought had his struggles this year too, it happens to young dmen.

 

[4thliner*]

Haha I call bullsh**. EJ's hockey sense is in line with other defencemen his age. For the most part it is very good, once in a while he'll try to do too much on his own and that's when he gets into trouble. These are things young dmen learn over time. He just finished his third season. When did Weber start becoming the dman he is now? It took him a while too. Same with Pronger.

It seems like everyone expects a Doughty like start to an NHL career. That is the exception not the rule. By the way, Dought had his struggles this year too, it happens to young dmen.

Erik Johnson will NEVER EVER become the player Weber is. Weber has always oozed of hockey sense and defensive awareness, even when his offensive game wasn't there as a prospect in Kelowna. I can say he was not as physically gifted a skater or as explosive. But he was smarter, a LOT smarter.

Erik Johnsson's hockey sense is below average at best. And it is not just the defensive miscues from time to time and not knowing when do pich in etc etc. it's even his OFFENSIVE hockey sense and work with the puck at the neutral zone. Dude's hockey sense is terribly lacking because he's got the physical tools and skating of a stud. That is too bad.

And I am not the only one, heck even in his draft year people were saying this guy has it all, except high IQ, which is crucial for an elite defenseman. Difference between a Chris Pronger and an Ed Jovanovski.

I would bet Johnsson will have a Jovanovski type of career instead of a Pronger or Weber.

 

[PeterTheGreat]

Erik Johnson will NEVER EVER become the player Weber is. Weber has always oozed of hockey sense and defensive awareness, even when his offensive game wasn't there as a prospect in Kelowna. I can say he was not as physically gifted a skater or as explosive. But he was smarter, a LOT smarter.

Erik Johnsson's hockey sense is below average at best. And it is not just the defensive miscues from time to time and not knowing when do pich in etc etc. it's even his OFFENSIVE hockey sense and work with the puck at the neutral zone. Dude's hockey sense is terribly lacking because he's got the physical tools and skating of a stud. That is too bad.

And I am not the only one, heck even in his draft year people were saying this guy has it all, except high IQ, which is crucial for an elite defenseman. Difference between a Chris Pronger and an Ed Jovanovski.

I would bet Johnsson will have a Jovanovski type of career instead of a Pronger or Weber.

Fair enough, thats your opinion and you are entitled to it. I disagree however.

A lot of people were saying the very same things about Chris Pronger when he was EJ's age.

 

[4thliner*]

Fair enough, thats your opinion and you are entitled to it. I disagree however.

A lot of people were saying the very same things about Chris Pronger when he was EJ's age.

It is odd that I can't recall any as I was around then.

 

[Goulet17]

It is odd that I can't recall any as I was around then.

You just gave yourself away with that comment. I remember it well.

 

[4thliner*]

You just gave yourself away with that comment. I remember it well.

I don't remember any. As in questions about Pronger's hockey sense???

I remember him on something like having to learn to play more under control but hockey sense??

Never heard of that about Chris. At any rate, some evidence, old scouting report etc before you accuse me?

 

[Goulet17]

I don't remember any. As in questions about Pronger's hockey sense???

I remember him on something like having to learn to play more under control but hockey sense??

Never heard of that about Chris. At any rate, some evidence, old scouting report etc before you accuse me?

You sound like one of the birthers in the U.S. that believe Obama is not a U.S. citizen. You make your claims and then demand that everyone provide facts that prove you are wrong, while at the same time offering none to support your argument.

You throw out your claims about Pronger and how highly regarded his hockey sense is, then when someone calls you own on your statements, you cry out and demand that someone prove you are wrong. Almost too conveniently, that was a pre-internet era draft and scouting reports are virtually non-existent online. Unfortunately for you, I WAS following hockey before the year 2000 and I remember the discussions about Pronger. Not coincidentally he was traded at a young age for a young, budding-star of a power forward.

I have seen many young players that lacked discipline and emotional control, and guess what, that is often characterized as a lack of hockey sense. Imagine that.

The more interesting point in my mind is that in Johnson's first three seasons, he far surpassed the statistical output of players like Jovanovski and Pronger at the same stage, at least from an offensive standpoint.

 

[4thliner*]

Point is, there was no issue with Pronger's hockey sense, never was. Johnsson's is an issue.

Talk about Obama or Osama all you want. I've never heard of any or better yet SEEN any from Pronger. You say you have been watching hockey before 2000, well I was watching hockey before 1990.

 

[Ice Crusher]

Point is, there was no issue with Pronger's hockey sense, never was. Johnsson's is an issue.

Talk about Obama or Osama all you want. I've never heard of any or better yet SEEN any from Pronger. You say you have been watching hockey before 2000, well I was watching hockey before 1990.

When you can't even spell a name right, I take your opinion as a grain of salt!

ERIK JOHNSON! Just not mentioning his name right proves that you haven't seen enough the back of his shirt yet!

By the way, Adam Larsson had a more offensive role last year because guys like Erixon, Rundblad were not ready to take up the minutes that Larsson was getting last season! This season Larsson had a defensive role because there wasn't players like Larsson that could have take those big minutes for Skelleftea as a defensive dman! Erixon and Rundblad were the offensive dman this season. Please before posting be more lucid on your research!

 

[BluechipBulletin]

It is odd that I can't recall any as I was around then.

I remember it quite clearly. I remember hearing him referred to as a "stiff" and that St Louis got hosed. Early on, there wasn't anything impressive about Pronger other than his size.

 

[NWAvs]

I agree.

I could see Lou picking Murphy with a fourth or a fifth pick.
That said, it seems like the Devils will win the draft lottery and I don't, personally, see Murphy going first.

Goo call on them winnig it.

 

[Trotzig]

Goo call on them winnig it.

Not sure if sarcastic.

Alas, NJD ended up with the fourth pick and they did, considering the final standings, in a sense "win" the lottery.

Lemaire got far more out of the team then I expected, or MacLean ran the team harder into the ground than I could comprehend.

 

[21]

Difficult choice and depends on what the team actually need.

With Landeskog you will get a complete power forward with true grit and leadership skills even though it hasn't been tested on a NHL level yet, future team captain potential. Landeskog is playing a Canadian type of hockey game even though he is from Sweden. If Landeskog continues to develop he is most probably my future favorit player. He reminds me a little bit of an old personal favorit, Mikael Renberg (ex Legion of Doom member), but Landeskog seems to be a tiny little bit better in every aspect of the game. Extremely interesting. I do have a question mark for Landeskogs slapshot (Renberg had a poor slapshot as well).

Larsson has potential to become one of the leauges better and most valuable defensemen. (I'm very insecure though how productive he will become regarding goals, assists etc). I like his team mate David Rundblad better though (he is much more offensive). My congratulations to Ottawa. Just look at WC right now.

 

[Coog]

About Adam Larsson, I’m not out to tear the guy down, he’s still young and all, but it doesn’t look like he performes well under pressure. In the WJC he didn’t shine in my opinion and in the finals of the swedish league he was down right awfull. But I haven’t seen that much of him during the season to form a more solid opinion of his over all skills. Hope I’m wrong though.

 

[Bolt32]

Seriously, have you followed SEL enough to make that judgement?
And just in case you feel you have, seriously?

I hope 25 other teams have the same outlook as him. Because a Larsson-Hedman pairing would be nasty on the Bolts.

 

[Kiefer]

I hope 25 other teams have the same outlook as him. Because a Larsson-Hedman pairing would be nasty on the Bolts.

True

 

[JawandaPuck]

Great argument.

It's disappointing that this is the level of discourse that we can expect here. Shouldn't we be aiming higher?

I agree that we should aim higher. Just because the general sentiment is that Larsson is the next Lidstrom, those that disagree should certainly be allowed to express their opinions without fear of belittlement. But this a public forum after all, so don't take it personally .

I noticed that there is a prospect rankings website utilizing your HFB username (http://bluechipbulletin.com/). Is this yours? I would be interested in knowing your credentials (just generally). I have similar concerns with Larsson's season as expressed here...

From a statistical standpoint, what I like about Hedman's SEL numbers better than Larsson's is that the formers production grew year over year. The decline in offensive production from Larsson's this season vs last, is somewhat disconcerting.

See the actual stats here.