Post-Game Talk: G5: Sabres @ Russian-less Caps | 1/22/21 | 7p ET

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Ridley Simon

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Buddy I'm not an idiot although you clearly think I am. Of course I realize you were sarcastic and I just played along. But yeah I don't like Ovechkin in the role of a best player on the team that wants to win something serious. He's not that good anymore. He needs a sheltered role and salary.
How do you “shelter” the reigning multiple time Rocket Richard winner?

PP only or something? 4th line ES minutes so he’s only able to help when in the PP? (Which would mean like 6min a game the way the refs are calling our games)
 

Melkor

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He was en route to his 9th 50-goal season before Covid. Definitely washed up.
That's nice, his goals are appreciated but his overall presence on the ice doesn't give the same vibe it did years ago and that's to put it nicely. He's not a hitting machine he once was, he lost more than a step in terms of speed, he lost his agility and technique in terms of puckhandling. He gives pucks away very often and he doesn't support a puck possession well these days. I'm not even asking from him to be a driver of the play he's been in the past.
 

Melkor

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How do you “shelter” the reigning multiple time Rocket Richard winner?

PP only or something? 4th line ES minutes so he’s only able to help when in the PP? (Which would mean like 6min a game the way the refs are calling our games)
PP and supporting role on the second or third line and have a real playmaker with legs and hands to breath new life into the top line. Of cource that's a big ask, those don't grow on trees but this team needs it.
 

Calicaps

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That's nice, his goals are appreciated but his overall presence on the ice doesn't give the same vibe it did years ago and that's to put it nicely. He's not a hitting machine he once was, he lost more than a step in terms of speed, he lost his agility and technique in terms of puckhandling. He gives pucks away very often and he doesn't support a puck possession well these days. I'm not even asking from him to be a driver of the play he's been in the past.
I’ll give you that he’s not the dynamic force he was in 2009-10, but since almost no one else ever has been, that’s a pretty unreasonable bar. He’s become a better 200-foot player, and until this latest nonsense, a respected team captain, leading the franchise to its first-ever championship, while remaining the best goal scorer in the game into his mid-30s. Your standards are off.
 

txpd

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I responded and then I realized.....
5.-Fly-fishing-for-beginners.jpg
 
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Melkor

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I’ll give you that he’s not the dynamic force he was in 2009-10, but since almost no one else ever has been, that’s a pretty unreasonable bar. He’s become a better 200-foot player, and until this latest nonsense, a respected team captain, leading the franchise to its first-ever championship, while remaining the best goal scorer in the game into his mid-30s. Your standards are off.
Nah they're not. To win a cup you gotta have an elite young defense like Blues, elite young offense and goaltending like Tampa, or play heavy style and rely on timely performances from your goalie like Caps did. Otherwise, the team needs to have young leaders who have elite talent and some chemistry between them. The key word is young. Aging teams don't win cups nowadays and that's a fact no matter you like it or not. Ovechkin needs to be an MVP caliber player to make up for this team's deficiencies and he's nowhere near that. That's also a fact no matter people like it or not. So he's not a fitting leader for this team right now. Has been in the past but yeah the present and the past are not the same. He needs a new role and leave the throne for someone else. One thing I'd give you is that's not his problem. It's on the management to realize that and not waste last years of his career on first round exits and go find a young star who will make them contenders again. Dubois just got traded for Laine, I'm sure Caps can find a good fit and trade their cocaine addict and some other underwhelming top-liners for guys who want and can play.
 

francaisvolantsparis

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I mean of course Ovechkin isn’t as dynamic as when he put up 100+ points. No player remains at that level into their mid thirties. Crosby isn’t nearly as dynamic as he used to be either, nor is Malkin. That’s why we need players like Wilson, Vrana, Kuzy to pick up some of that slack.
100+ Ovechkin did not won the Cup by himself even at his best. Ovy-Kuzy-Wilson line did.
 
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Ridley Simon

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Nah they're not. To win a cup you gotta have an elite young defense like Blues, elite young offense and goaltending like Tampa, or play heavy style and rely on timely performances from your goalie like Caps did. Otherwise, the team needs to have young leaders who have elite talent and some chemistry between them. The key word is young. Aging teams don't win cups nowadays and that's a fact no matter you like it or not. Ovechkin needs to be an MVP caliber player to make up for this team's deficiencies and he's nowhere near that. That's also a fact no matter people like it or not. So he's not a fitting leader for this team right now. Has been in the past but yeah the present and the past are not the same. He needs a new role and leave the throne for someone else. One thing I'd give you is that's not his problem. It's on the management to realize that and not waste last years of his career on first round exits and go find a young star who will make them contenders again. Dubois just got traded for Laine, I'm sure Caps can find a good fit and trade their cocaine addict and some other underwhelming top-liners for guys who want and can play.
This all reads like a “I will give you the blueprint (in my mind), but will ignore all the realities of our situation”

No shit they need good young players. “Young star” as you call it. Drafting in the mid to high 20’s every year kinda makes that hard, yes? In fact you could easily argue that the Caps have done far better than most (save a Tampa) with regard to drafting from their slots.

PL Dubois was a 3OA. Most of the players leading teams now are because they were drafted super high and their teams sucked balls before then. Caps haven’t sucked balls in 15 years. So unless you get fortunate in the later rounds of the draft (which they actually have, ironically), make really astute trades (which again, they have, ironically), or can sign FA’s that blossom (again, they’ve done pretty well there as well), you are stuck.

Only way the Caps win another Cup is with this aging core and a correct move or 2. Maybe dealing Kuznetsov is THAT type of move. It’s probably the only one. Orlov or Oshie are the other guys that you could deal (= salary slot), but not sure you’re going to get what you need there. That would be an old school Poile type deal (go look at his trade resume from 82-92....a LOT of “hockey” trades...which don’t happen much anymore), or get lucky w a disgruntled type that has to be moved.

Regardless — this team is headed towards a rebuild. They have at most 2-3 more seasons, IMO. Ovechkins new deal may just cripple all of that after this season and next. It’s been a great run. Wish we had more Cups, but thankfully we got one.
 

Melkor

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This all reads like a “I will give you the blueprint (in my mind), but will ignore all the realities of our situation”

No shit they need good young players. “Young star” as you call it. Drafting in the mid to high 20’s every year kinda makes that hard, yes? In fact you could easily argue that the Caps have done far better than most (save a Tampa) with regard to drafting from their slots.

PL Dubois was a 3OA. Most of the players leading teams now are because they were drafted super high and their teams sucked balls before then. Caps haven’t sucked balls in 15 years. So unless you get fortunate in the later rounds of the draft (which they actually have, ironically), make really astute trades (which again, they have, ironically), or can sign FA’s that blossom (again, they’ve done pretty well there as well), you are stuck.

Only way the Caps win another Cup is with this aging core and a correct move or 2. Maybe dealing Kuznetsov is THAT type of move. It’s probably the only one. Orlov or Oshie are the other guys that you could deal (= salary slot), but not sure you’re going to get what you need there. That would be an old school Poile type deal (go look at his trade resume from 82-92....a LOT of “hockey” trades...which don’t happen much anymore), or get lucky w a disgruntled type that has to be moved.

Regardless — this team is headed towards a rebuild. They have at most 2-3 more seasons, IMO. Ovechkins new deal may just cripple all of that after this season and next. It’s been a great run. Wish we had more Cups, but thankfully we got one.
Umm nah..I mean it's somewhat a challenge but Caps definitely didn't do a better job at drafting than most. Their record in 2-7 rounds is absolutely atrocious, among the worst in the league and some of the current powerhouses have a lot of key players drafted in the later rounds. Their impotence at drafting past the 1st round is what crippled their depth over the years. Thankfully they were able to make up for that in one of the years and get some guys from FA dumpster to build a championship team. Otherwise, Ovechkin's career outside of his 3 MVPs would have looked like a total disaster
 

Ridley Simon

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Umm nah..I mean it's somewhat a challenge but Caps definitely didn't do a better job at drafting than most. Their record in 2-7 rounds is absolutely atrocious, among the worst in the league and some of the current powerhouses have a lot of key players drafted in the later rounds. Their impotence at drafting past the 1st round is what crippled their depth over the years. Thankfully they were able to make up for that in one of the years and get some guys from FA dumpster to build a championship team. Otherwise, Ovechkin's career outside of his 3 MVPs would have looked like a total disaster
How about examples please.
 

Melkor

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Your claims of “impotence” over the last decade? Or is it easier to just make the comments?
Not a single player taken in the round past the 1st by the Capitals had made a significant positive impact for the Capitals franchise in the last 5-6 years. In fact there's no such player even among 1st rounders. I'm not a google search bar on your browser, you can easily find the proof of this yourself.
 

Ridley Simon

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Not a single player taken in the round past the 1st by the Capitals had made a significant positive impact for the Capitals franchise in the last 5-6 years. In fact there's no such player even among 1st rounders. I'm not a google search bar on your browser, you can easily find the proof of this yourself.
I see. So Holtby, Orlov, Stephenson, Djoos, Grubauer, Vanacek, Siegenthaler, Sanford weren’t all post round 1 players? To name a few?

And if you mean past 5-6 years than those kids are 22-23 now. Find me a team that has multiple post 1st rounders playing now?

Or else this is you just liking to talk.
 

CapitalsCupReality

It’s Go Time!!
Feb 27, 2002
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This all reads like a “I will give you the blueprint (in my mind), but will ignore all the realities of our situation”

No shit they need good young players. “Young star” as you call it. Drafting in the mid to high 20’s every year kinda makes that hard, yes? In fact you could easily argue that the Caps have done far better than most (save a Tampa) with regard to drafting from their slots.

PL Dubois was a 3OA. Most of the players leading teams now are because they were drafted super high and their teams sucked balls before then. Caps haven’t sucked balls in 15 years. So unless you get fortunate in the later rounds of the draft (which they actually have, ironically), make really astute trades (which again, they have, ironically), or can sign FA’s that blossom (again, they’ve done pretty well there as well), you are stuck.

Only way the Caps win another Cup is with this aging core and a correct move or 2. Maybe dealing Kuznetsov is THAT type of move. It’s probably the only one. Orlov or Oshie are the other guys that you could deal (= salary slot), but not sure you’re going to get what you need there. That would be an old school Poile type deal (go look at his trade resume from 82-92....a LOT of “hockey” trades...which don’t happen much anymore), or get lucky w a disgruntled type that has to be moved.

Regardless — this team is headed towards a rebuild. They have at most 2-3 more seasons, IMO. Ovechkins new deal may just cripple all of that after this season and next. It’s been a great run. Wish we had more Cups, but thankfully we got one.

some of us foresaw and called the coming rebuild a year or 2 ago. I was rebuffed, told there would be very little drop off with Kuzy transitioning into “best player” role. HAH!

they will probably miss the playoffs again for a few years when the young guns have finally aged out unless they get very lucky in the draft and make incredibly savvy roster moves.
 
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Melkor

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I see. So Holtby, Orlov, Stephenson, Djoos, Grubauer, Vanacek, Siegenthaler, Sanford weren’t all post round 1 players?
Oh boy to call this a stretch would be an understatement. And yeah perhaps I should have worded it better. No player taken in the last 5-6 years. Anyways, Stephenson and Djoos were one year wonders for bottom lines/pairings and Holtby fell off a cliff after the cup run but I give him that run, he was on point when they needed him.
Find me a team that has multiple post 1st rounders playing now?
Okay. Tampa: basically the whole team outside Stamkos, Vasi and Hedman.
Dallas: Hintz, Benn, Lindell.
Carolina: Aho, Slavin, Pesce
Boston: Pasta, Mcavoy and Debrusk are the only 1st rounders.
Nashville: Arvidsson, Ekholm, Josi
STL: Kyrou, Parayko, Dunn, Binnington.

I got tired tbh. There's a lot of such teams.
 
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CapitalsCupReality

It’s Go Time!!
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I see. So Holtby, Orlov, Stephenson, Djoos, Grubauer, Vanacek, Siegenthaler, Sanford weren’t all post round 1 players? To name a few?

And if you mean past 5-6 years than those kids are 22-23 now. Find me a team that has multiple post 1st rounders playing now?

Or else this is you just liking to talk.

He did say “significant”....so you get Holtby and Orlov, drafted in 2008/2009 lol...

that’s not nothing but it’s not much either.
 

txpd

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some of us foresaw and called the coming rebuild a year or 2 ago. I was rebuffed, told there would be very little drop off with Kuzy transitioning into “best player” role. HAH!

they will probably miss the playoffs again for a few years when the young guns have finally aged out unless they get very lucky in the draft and make incredibly savvy roster moves.

I think many people saw Kuzy as a legit 1C as Backstrom slowed down into a 2C. That with Oshie leaving and Ov slowing down, Vrana and Wilson have shown a lot of ability. There is reasonable expectation that McMichael is a legit top 6 player. I think many had Samsonov pencilled in as an elite goalie. If that all happens and one of the many defense prospects is a legit top 4 d, there's no reason this team wouldnt remain competitive.

What we have found is the road has been bumpy for Samsonov. That Fehervary isnt playing in the league yet. McMichael looks promising but isnt playing yet. Kuzy has not shown to be the leader he might be. Vrana and Wilson remain legit players.
 
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