GDT: G33 - PHI @ MIN - Return of the Fletcher - 6PM Central - FSN

[Bazeek]

Guys, guys, guys.... I said Walz is getti g better, thats all! Ha. It's a probable direct correlation with the reduction/absence of the nicknames. I dont hate him on color anymore.

I do kind of agree. It's gone from teeth-grinding to merely eye-rolling, and I don't hate what he has to say. He just says a lot of it and talks over the play too much.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

I don't see how you guys plan on keeping everyone and giving them all these raises.

Eventually Donato, Eriksson Ek or Kunin are going to be top 6 centers simply because we can't afford anyone else. Especially if we keep signing guys like Zuccarello in the offseason, and handing out NMC's

It’s not abnormal for players to get paid more on their 2nd contracts than their 1st. In fact, it’s what always happens.

 

[AKL]

It’s not abnormal for players to get paid more on their 2nd contracts than their 1st. In fact, it’s what always happens.

I never said otherwise. Right now, wingers have to move because we're running out of spots for them. Pretty soon, if you continue to try to keep everyone, players will have to move because you can't afford to keep anyone.

Doing the math, if we give Greenway, Kunin, Ek and Donato all about 4M, Fiala 5M, and don't trade any of them or Zucker, you'll have no Staal, no Koivu, and about 4M to sign a top six center or two. Kaprizov is likely going to get more than 4-5M if things go right, in 2022-23.

Your plan involves giving way too much money to wingers and bottom 6 players for a team with no top six centers in the near future. Move Zucker and Greenway, and you effectively free up about 9M in a couple years. So pick some guys you don't want, because push is going to come to shove eventually.

 

[16thOverallSaveUs]

I never said otherwise. Right now, wingers have to move because we're running out of spots for them. Pretty soon, if you continue to try to keep everyone, players will have to move because you can't afford to keep anyone.

Doing the math, if we give Greenway, Kunin, Ek and Donato all about 4M, Fiala 5M, and don't trade any of them or Zucker, you'll have no Staal, no Koivu, and about 4M to sign a top six center or two. Kaprizov is likely going to get more than 4-5M if things go right, in 2022-23.

Your plan involves giving way too much money to wingers and bottom 6 players for a team with no top six centers in the near future. Move Zucker and Greenway, and you effectively free up about 9M in a couple years. So pick some guys you don't want, because push is going to come to shove eventually.

It’s called not learning from your mistakes. Rather than building a team around star players, we employ 12 middle six forwards. I hate it, but people seem fine with it as long as it allows us to participate in the playoffs.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

I never said otherwise. Right now, wingers have to move because we're running out of spots for them. Pretty soon, if you continue to try to keep everyone, players will have to move because you can't afford to keep anyone.

Doing the math, if we give Greenway, Kunin, Ek and Donato all about 4M, Fiala 5M, and don't trade any of them or Zucker, you'll have no Staal, no Koivu, and about 4M to sign a top six center or two. Kaprizov is likely going to get more than 4-5M if things go right, in 2022-23.

Your plan involves giving way too much money to wingers and bottom 6 players for a team with no top six centers in the near future. Move Zucker and Greenway, and you effectively free up about 9M in a couple years. So pick some guys you don't want, because push is going to come to shove eventually.

I don’t really have a plan.

 

[Bazeek]

It’s called not learning from your mistakes. Rather than building a team around star players, we employ 12 middle six forwards. I hate it, but people seem fine with it as long as it allows us to participate in the playoffs.

Alternatively, it's called Working with What You've Got. Just this summer there was a lot of talk about the Rangers performing the "fastest rebuild evar" and New Jersey having the "best summer" of any team. Not quite how things have panned out this season.

We do have too many good-not-great players and we'll be forced to move at least two before next season, but things are playing out pretty nicely right now. I can't speak for anyone else, but it's been hugely enjoyable to see some of these young guys start to step up and show us what they've got. I am also getting very curious to see what some of these guys can do in the playoffs.

The star power still isn't there, but that can come from some strange places. If the alternative to the course we're on is what the Red Wings or Rangers are going through... I don't know, I'm glad I'm not the one making that decision. At the moment I really like just about every player on this team.

 

[AKL]

Alternatively, it's called Working with What You've Got. Just this summer there was a lot of talk about the Rangers performing the "fastest rebuild evar" and New Jersey having the "best summer" of any team. Not quite how things have panned out this season.

We do have too many good-not-great players and we'll be forced to move at least two before next season, but things are playing out pretty nicely right now. I can't speak for anyone else, but it's been hugely enjoyable to see some of these young guys start to step up and show us what they've got. I am also getting very curious to see what some of these guys can do in the playoffs.

The star power still isn't there, but that can come from some strange places. If the alternative to the course we're on is what the Red Wings or Rangers are going through... I don't know, I'm glad I'm not the one making that decision. At the moment I really like just about every player on this team.

Well that's his point, isn't it? People are happy with too many good-not-great players because hey, at least we can usually get a round of playoffs at the end of it. We're banking on the small chance that we follow the path the Blues did, because being at the bottom of the standings for 5-7 years is somehow worse than being a perpetual bubble team?

I don't see how Fiala, Eriksson Ek, Greenway, Zuccarello, Staal is any different than what we had with Granlund, Coyle, Nino, Pominville and Koivu. Same thing, (soon to be) different decade.

I don't know what the answer will end up being if we ever win the Cup, but I'll be damned if this is it.

 

[Bazeek]

Well that's his point, isn't it? People are happy with too many good-not-great players because hey, at least we can usually get a round of playoffs at the end of it. We're banking on the small chance that we follow the path the Blues did, because being at the bottom of the standings for 5-7 years is somehow worse than being a perpetual bubble team?

I don't see how Fiala, Eriksson Ek, Greenway, Zuccarello, Staal is any different than what we had with Granlund, Coyle, Nino, Pominville and Koivu. Same thing, (soon to be) different decade.

I don't know what the answer will end up being if we ever win the Cup, but I'll be damned if this is it.

Yeah, and I do get the other side of this whole debate. I often wonder if you don't have the right of it, even if I can't quite agree with it.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

I never said otherwise. Right now, wingers have to move because we're running out of spots for them. Pretty soon, if you continue to try to keep everyone, players will have to move because you can't afford to keep anyone.

Doing the math, if we give Greenway, Kunin, Ek and Donato all about 4M, Fiala 5M, and don't trade any of them or Zucker, you'll have no Staal, no Koivu, and about 4M to sign a top six center or two. Kaprizov is likely going to get more than 4-5M if things go right, in 2022-23.

Your plan involves giving way too much money to wingers and bottom 6 players for a team with no top six centers in the near future. Move Zucker and Greenway, and you effectively free up about 9M in a couple years. So pick some guys you don't want, because push is going to come to shove eventually.

So you're against the Zuccarello signing, yet you want to free up $9 million for... what? Zuccarello is the kind of player you normally get with that money. You want to give RNH $85 million in 2021?

 

[AKL]

So you're against the Zuccarello signing, yet you want to free up $9 million for... what? Zuccarello is the kind of player you normally get with that money. You want to give RNH $85 million two summers from now?

At this point I want to free up 9M for the inevitable need for a top 6 center or two that we'll have shortly. If we didn't sign Zuccarello, we wouldn't necessarily have to move Zucker.

So yes, I am adamantly against the Zuccarello signing at this point because it was 6M committed for 5 years for a player we don't need at a position we're deep in. I would gladly pay RNH 7-7.5 before paying Zuccarello 6.

 

[Obvious Fabertism]

Well that's his point, isn't it? People are happy with too many good-not-great players because hey, at least we can usually get a round of playoffs at the end of it. We're banking on the small chance that we follow the path the Blues did, because being at the bottom of the standings for 5-7 years is somehow worse than being a perpetual bubble team?

I don't see how Fiala, Eriksson Ek, Greenway, Zuccarello, Staal is any different than what we had with Granlund, Coyle, Nino, Pominville and Koivu. Same thing, (soon to be) different decade.

I don't know what the answer will end up being if we ever win the Cup, but I'll be damned if this is it.

Imagine being the Oilers... only response necessary to this garbage.

 

[AKL]

Imagine being the Oilers... only response necessary to this garbage.

Your only response is anecdotal evidence of one team that has elite players and is currently ahead of us in the standings?

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

At this point I want to free up 9M for the inevitable need for a top 6 center or two that we'll have shortly. If we didn't sign Zuccarello, we wouldn't necessarily have to move Zucker.

So yes, I am adamantly against the Zuccarello signing at this point because it was 6M committed for 5 years for a player we don't need at a position we're deep in. I would gladly pay RNH 7-7.5 before paying Zuccarello 6.

I'd suggest taking a peek at the prospective UFA center market the next few years. $7 million for RNH is probably wishful thinking.

 

[AKL]

I'd suggest taking a peek at the prospective UFA center market the next few years. $7 million for RNH is probably wishful thinking.

So 8M? Even 8.5? If we're considering that about a 500k-1M overpay? I'd rather do that for a top 6 center than continue to dump money into wingers and middle six players, and middle six wingers.

There's also the chance that someone becomes available via trade, a la Trochek, possibly Johansen, etc.

If there comes a time where you can't make a move that would greatly help the team, because a couple years ago you thought it better to use the cap space rather than let it sit there, then it wasn't better to use it the cap space, was it?

Regardless of whether we sign Zuccarello or not, we're still looking for those centers. Now we just have less cap and flexibility to get them.

 

[TaLoN]

Walz has some good info compared to Greenlay. Just has to talk less.

A pullstring talking toy has better info than Greenlay.

 

[TaLoN]

It’s not abnormal for players to get paid more on their 2nd contracts than their 1st. In fact, it’s what always happens.

Yes, give them raises on 2nd contracts, but we can't lock up everyone long term, even with working with what you've got.

Keep roster flexibility and aspire for more. Trade guys in packages and try to find more than middling players.

I'm not against taking risks if you try to maximize the value in return also.

Making moves for only known quantities will get just more of the same usually.

Or, go all out on a swing for the fences type deal. Doesn't even need to be a real fence swinger either if you find a sap out there. Look how cheap Hall was from Edmonton... surely we could have offered better.

 

[Obvious Fabertism]

Your only response is anecdotal evidence of one team that has elite players and is currently ahead of us in the standings?

Buffalo, Arizona, Panthers, Islanders, perennial garbage. The only two teams to have succeeded off a tank are Pitt and Chi and I have no respect for either. keep it in in the tank thread.

 

[AKL]

Buffalo, Arizona, Panthers, Islanders, perennial garbage. The only two teams to have succeeded off a tank are Pitt and Chi and I have no respect for either. keep it in in the tank thread.

All the teams ahead of us in the standings?

 

[SupremeNachos]

Wow. Had a late watch after doing some trout fishing up north. That was a fun game. Felt like we were in control the entire game. Brodin and Soucy were ... Impressive. How cool would it have been if Staal had his thousandth point with a hat trick? Also, Walz is getting better on color.

How far north did you go for trout?