Speculation: future number one defenseman

4-5 years from now who is number one defenseman on the team


  • Total voters
    127

Shaman464

No u
May 1, 2009
10,211
4,420
Boston, MA
Two completely different players regarding their growth and physical maturity curves. Compare them both when Cholowski turns 26.
The comparison was in role. And they aren’t as different as you’d think. It was the NHL and how teams evaluated players that was different in Ralaskis early years.
 

Henkka

Registered User
Jan 31, 2004
31,077
12,076
Tampere, Finland
It takes generally 10 years after draft to develop defenseman in his prime, only 2 of them on the second round .

Yeah, and like at Athletic article wrote about our possible end result of this rebuild, the team being in-prime at season 2021-22, we need in-prime defenceman to match with that roster. So it should be somebody who is 27-32 year old on that time. Somebody who is 24-30 at the moment.

It does mean defencemen drafted at 2007-13.

2007
- PK Subban
- Ryan McDonagh

2008
- Drew Doughty
- Erik Karlsson (2019 UFA)
- Alex Pietrangelo
- Roman Josi
- John Carlson
- TJ Brodie
- Tyler Myers (not #1D, but 2019 UFA)
- Jake Gardiner (not #1D, but 2019 UFA)

2009
- Oliver Ekman-Larsson
- Victor Hedman
- Tyson Barrie
- Mattias Ekholm
- Nick Leddy
- Ryan Ellis

2010
- Justin Faulk
- John Klingberg
- Cam Fowler

2011
- Oscar Klefbom
- Dougie Hamilton

2012
- Jaccob Slavin
- Jacob Trouba
- Esa Lindell
- Hampus Lindholm
- Colton Parayko
- Morgan Rielly
- Shayne Gostisbehere
- Brady Skej
- Matt Dumba

2013
- Rasmus Ristolainen
- Seth Jones
- Josh Morrissey
- Brett Pesce
- Shea Theodore
- Ryan Pulock
- Madison Bowey

2019 or 2020 drafted defenceman doesn't match with our forward prime at all. Those guys are in prime at 2028 at earliest.

We need to get that #1D via trade or UFA, that's 100% obvious. It's somebody from that group of names above.
 
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Lil Bert

Registered User
Oct 14, 2018
255
143
Cholowski absolutely has the tools to be a #1 defenseman.
Except for a defensive game. He'll need a LOT of time to fix up that tire fire. Hronek's quietly been our best all around defenseman for the past three weeks. Decent defensively, and six points in eight games leading up to the all star game. I have more hope for Hronek than Cholo at this point
 

obey86

Registered User
Jun 9, 2009
8,013
1,274
People really are selling Cholowski short IMO. The dude is only 20 years old still. For reference, PK Subban played 2 games in his 20 year old season, Shea Weber played 28 games (10 points) his 20 year old season, Mike Green played 22 games (3 points) his 20 year old season, Ryan Suter didn't play until age 21, Duncan Keith didn't play until age 22, etc.

Plenty of opposite examples where players came up earlier than age 20 as well. Just saying that Cholowski still has quite a bit of growing to do at the NHL level before he's a final product and he seems to have the skill set and work ethic that will cause him to improve.
 
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PelagicJoe

Registered User
Mar 20, 2012
2,130
558
St. Louis, MO
While he is not Nick Lidstrom or Erik Karlsson, Cholo will be the #1 guy, or at least he will be a #1D on our roster. He's already the best defenseman we have drafted in a long time. The only two guys we drafted in the past 10 or 15 years that turned out to be long term NHLers are Kronwall and Ericsson. I might be forgetting someone that ended up getting traded.
We suck at drafting defensemen it seems. Over 20 years, we managed to draft 3 really good ones: Lidstrom, Konstantinov, and Kronwall. We need to start stealing scouts from Nashville.
 
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jkutswings

hot piss hockey
Jul 10, 2014
10,840
8,558
Yeah, let’s totally absolve the GM who is actually calling the shots... Come on with this.
Jim Nill's actual role with Detroit:

databank_jedimindtrick_01_169_a491266d.jpeg
 
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Shaman464

No u
May 1, 2009
10,211
4,420
Boston, MA
People really are selling Cholowski short IMO. The dude is only 20 years old still. For reference, PK Subban played 2 games in his 20 year old season, Shea Weber played 28 games (10 points) his 20 year old season, Mike Green played 22 games (3 points) his 20 year old season, Ryan Suter didn't play until age 21, Duncan Keith didn't play until age 22, etc.

Plenty of opposite examples where players came up earlier than age 20 as well. Just saying that Cholowski still has quite a bit of growing to do at the NHL level before he's a final product and he seems to have the skill set and work ethic that will cause him to improve.
I’d still rather have chychrun. But, Cholo is what he is, he won’t be a #1 guy but he’ll be a solid PMD, PPQB.
 

datsyukfan

Registered User
Jul 5, 2007
3,829
1,537
Wonder what the price would be on parayko. Think a late 1st (Nyquist trade) +islander 2nd+ AA would get it done?
 

kliq

Registered User
Dec 17, 2017
2,727
1,319
The extent to which Nill is used as a scapegoat is a hilarious. If you are a manager and hire a crappy employee, you don’t get to just wipe your hands clean and say “that guy sucks.” That falls on you too.

Agreed, but it goes both ways. Can’t critizise holland for all the bad picks, then give credit to the scouts for the good ones. It all goes through holland, he deserves the credit and the criticism.
 
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jkutswings

hot piss hockey
Jul 10, 2014
10,840
8,558
The extent to which Nill is used as a scapegoat is a hilarious. If you are a manager and hire a crappy employee, you don’t get to just wipe your hands clean and say “that guy sucks.” That falls on you too.
What gets me is when people argue that Holland was just "following orders" during the "keep The Streak alive" phase, so Kenny gets no blame...but then vilify guys like Nill, so Kenny gets no blame. Weren't they - at least to an extent - just following orders that presumably either came directly from Holland, or at least went through him?

It's not fair to give one person all the credit or all the blame. But there's no way that Ken Holland was a prisoner to both his boss and his direct reports for several years running.
 

Run the Jewels

Make Detroit Great Again
Jun 22, 2006
13,817
1,750
In the Garage
Yzerman is either going to trade for one or sign one in free agency. He'll also build out depth via the draft. If he can somehow get Karlsson and Trouba we'd be in great shape, he just needs to clear out as many awful contracts as possible to give us additional cap space.
 

Larkin2AA

Registered User
Apr 21, 2016
766
758
Rochester Hills, MI
Yzerman is either going to trade for one or sign one in free agency. He'll also build out depth via the draft. If he can somehow get Karlsson and Trouba we'd be in great shape, he just needs to clear out as many awful contracts as possible to give us additional cap space.

Best part of Yzerman is that he doesn't play games! He might be a little more cut throat to make the team better faster.
 

izlez

We need more toe-drags/60
Feb 28, 2012
4,575
3,462
Wait a second, now Nill was a "crappy employee" that did nothing and tried to hold Holland prisoner with his incompetence?
I thought he was a genius that was responsible for everything good and going to lead Dallas to a cup and his leaving was another example of Holland being the worst human being on earth?
 

pz29

Registered User
Jun 18, 2015
505
211
Best part of Yzerman is that he doesn't play games! He might be a little more cut throat to make the team better faster.
worst part of Yzerman is that he is not our GM and no one knows whether he ever will be.
 

Frk It

Mo Seider Less Problems
Jul 27, 2010
36,198
14,681
Agreed, but it goes both ways. Can’t critizise holland for all the bad picks, then give credit to the scouts for the good ones. It all goes through holland, he deserves the credit and the criticism.

Exactly.
 
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DRW204

Registered User
Dec 26, 2010
22,094
26,688
Draft or sign one. I think Hronek can be a very strong 2nd pairing guy, it depends how he develops ultimately he's only 21 years old.

#s 5v5
upload_2019-2-1_9-42-15.png
 
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PelagicJoe

Registered User
Mar 20, 2012
2,130
558
St. Louis, MO
Yzerman is either going to trade for one or sign one in free agency. He'll also build out depth via the draft. If he can somehow get Karlsson and Trouba we'd be in great shape, he just needs to clear out as many awful contracts as possible to give us additional cap space.

One can dream. With all the dead weight coming off the the books the next two seasons, we at least have a shot of this happening.
 

KJoe88

Forever Lost.
May 18, 2012
6,984
1,278
Trenton, MI
I’d still rather have chychrun. But, Cholo is what he is, he won’t be a #1 guy but he’ll be a solid PMD, PPQB.

Cholowski will be the better defenseman. And really has shown it thus far in comparison. Similar points in the same amount of games played all the while playing on a way worse team coming into an unexpected role. Hopefully he keeps it up next year.

But sure, go ahead and be bitter that Holland picked a guy you didn’t want, yet has come out to be potentially better.

Makes sense. Really.

Edit: You like JC more, fine, but don’t pretend he’s any better than Cholowski. Because he simply is not.
 
Last edited:

NickH8

Registered User
Jul 3, 2015
3,646
3,773
The best team without a true #1D is currently NY Islanders. All 7 teams above them have a true #1D.

They have Pulock, Leddy, Hickey, Mayfield, Boychuck as a TOP5 comittee.

It's kind of the only team, which could go to the playoffs without a true #1D.

Man, Barry Trotz is good.
Vegas has Shcmidt and I wouldn't call him a true number 1.
 

Hen Kolland

Registered User
Feb 22, 2018
9,466
8,332


We need to be all over this.


Just looking at the headlines, it looks like he's undecided on whether or not to sign with Carolina, and I assume this is due to how much of a logjam they have defensively. Everyone on their defense is under contract for at least next year, with Bean and Fleury still being in the fold.

Leads me to two thoughts, does Carolina get desperate to make room for him and take a lesser deal on someone with lesser term like Faulk or Hamilton? Are they prepared to move some of the D prospects for young NHL forward help? This is where the normal names start to circle, Mantha, Athanasiou.

You are right; we need to be doing every ounce of leg work possible regarding every potential fallout from this news.
 
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