Speculation: future number one defenseman
- Thread starter lilidk
- Start date
ChadS
Registered User
- Jun 30, 2009
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How many teams have a real #1D? Not very many I assume, otherwise there would be 10-15+ guys like that. Is it even necessary? I would argue it's not as long as the rest of the D-core is good enough. Would you rather have one of the top D's in the league or a great overall D group without a true #1D?
Henkka
Registered User
The best team without a true #1D is currently NY Islanders. All 7 teams above them have a true #1D.
They have Pulock, Leddy, Hickey, Mayfield, Boychuck as a TOP5 comittee.
It's kind of the only team, which could go to the playoffs without a true #1D.
Man, Barry Trotz is good.
I'm super high on Cholowski's overall skill set. He has great hands, great agility (can shake a forechecker with his skating), and quite often makes really awesome outlet passes on defense while under pressure from a forechecker or two. Yeah he coughs it up sometimes too but thats to be expected from a rookie. Hes very cerebral and I think that will translate quite well into being a 1D. I'm very excited for his future. I think he can end up being similar to what Mike Green currently is (who I think is underappreciated around the league)
How many cups have been won by teams without a "real" #1? The Pens did, I guess. But they also rolled Crosby and Malkin.
Heaton
Moderator
Not many. If you go back to the mid 2000s, there's Carolina. And Tampa. Although those were "lightning in a bottle" teams, not rosters that had repeat appearances. Routine contenders usually have an excellent 3 phase defender logging huge minutes. Looking over the last 30 years, you get a lot of repeat names like Lidstrom, Pronger, Niedermayer, Borque, Zubov, Doughty, and Keith.
Sorry, meant the last one with, I think, Schultz leading their blueline. Against us, Gonchar was pretty darn good and I think Letang gets underrated. The guy's not a Norris winner back there but over the past five years he's averaged nearly 26 minutes a night and has put up 245 points - 5th most in the NHL and his per game average isn't that far off the leaders, Burns and Karlsson. That guy is a good D.
Yep, I was thinking Carolina, too. That was such a cobbled together group. I don't think it's a coincidence they won right after the lockout.
lilidk
Registered User
- Mar 4, 2008
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1.Victor Hedman was drafted # 2 in 2009 by Tampa
2.Drew Doughty, was drafted #2 in 2008 by Kings
3.Erik Karlsson was drafted #15 in 2008 by Ottawa
4[URL='https://www.nhl.com/player/brent-burns-8470613']Brent Burns, was drafted #20 in [/URL]2003 by Wild
5 P.K. Subban was drafted #43 in 2007 by Montreal
6 Seth Jones, was drafted #4 in 2013 by Predators
7Roman Josi, was drafted #38 in 2008 by Predators
8John Carlson was drafted #27 in 2008 by Capitals
9Alex Pietrangelo was drafted #4 in 2008 by Blues
Nine best defenseman from last year
It takes generally 10 years after draft to develop defenseman in his prime, only 2 of them on the second round .
2.Drew Doughty, was drafted #2 in 2008 by Kings
3.Erik Karlsson was drafted #15 in 2008 by Ottawa
4[URL='https://www.nhl.com/player/brent-burns-8470613']Brent Burns, was drafted #20 in [/URL]2003 by Wild
5 P.K. Subban was drafted #43 in 2007 by Montreal
6 Seth Jones, was drafted #4 in 2013 by Predators
7Roman Josi, was drafted #38 in 2008 by Predators
8John Carlson was drafted #27 in 2008 by Capitals
9Alex Pietrangelo was drafted #4 in 2008 by Blues
Nine best defenseman from last year
It takes generally 10 years after draft to develop defenseman in his prime, only 2 of them on the second round .
Shaman464
No u
Cholo and Hronek seem like complementary pieces to better rounded d men. I still see Cholo as a rafalski lite.
obey86
Registered User
- Jun 9, 2009
- 8,013
- 1,274
This is the correct take.
Also, if the forward group ends up being great after adding Zadina, the 2019 top 5 pick, and maybe a nice free agent signing - Cholowski and/or Hronek will begin putting up 40-50 points if given the proper ice time/opportunity. Then I don't think it will matter that we don't have a Lidstrom type player back there, even if neither is actually a"#1'" or whatever,
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Well holland has had numerous opportunities to trade for one. It's a proven fact that wont happen.
Cholo, hronek and a few others are possibilities but it is too early to tell. I think cholo is and will continue to be a force offensively but defense he has work to do, but obviously is still very young.
I think the best possibility is actually signing a #1 defenseman as a free agent in the next 5 years. But that's wasnt an option, so I selected draft one. Which is always a crapshoot and may or may not happen.
Cholo, hronek and a few others are possibilities but it is too early to tell. I think cholo is and will continue to be a force offensively but defense he has work to do, but obviously is still very young.
I think the best possibility is actually signing a #1 defenseman as a free agent in the next 5 years. But that's wasnt an option, so I selected draft one. Which is always a crapshoot and may or may not happen.
Wyzer Plan
Registered User
- May 11, 2011
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Dang. 44% of that list was drafted top4. 78% were drafted in the first round.
Speaks for itself....
Shaman464
No u
People like to talk about how #1 D men can come out of anywhere in the draft, but, as scouting has gotten better, that’s becoming less the case. Trade, first round draft pick or free agency are becoming the only realistic way of getting that top guy. Just like you’ll never have a Datsyuk come out of the 9th round, you’ll likely never see a top guy coming out of the later rounds either.
Go for Karlsson in 2019.
Or try Krug/Trouba/Werenski in 2020. 2 if possible.
Or try Krug/Trouba/Werenski in 2020. 2 if possible.
Shaman464
No u
I’d bet the farm when it’s all said and done that Karlsson wouldn’t have Detroit in just top 5 destinations.
kliq
Registered User
- Dec 17, 2017
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A report may come out and say that he was choosing between Team A and Team B, but no player is going to come out and say that after the team they signed with team A, that the next 4 in line were B, C, D and E. This really is a pointless statement to make, its just taking a shot at the team that most likely can never be defended or proven right.
It would be like me saying "I’d bet the farm that Karlsson's first choice is Detroit, but because his wife doesn't want to live in Detroit he won't sign here or even take a meeting". Good luck proving that BS wrong.
Pavels Dog
Registered User
Cholo has all the tools. I think too many expect a future #1D to enter the league and dominate. That's almost never the case. Look at the early seasons of most top D-men today and very few had an immediate huge impact. Cholo has slowed a little bit but he's still doing about as well as you can hope for a 20 year old rookie who is jumping from juniors and is still raw physically. Most d-men don't truly hit their stride until they are well into their 20s. With Cholo's work ethic and head for the game there's no reason to think he is anywhere close to his peak. Sky is the limit for him.
It took Rafalski until he was 26 to even make the NHL.. I wouldn't put such labels on Cholowski until he at least has 2-3 seasons under his belt. When his rookie coach compares him to Seth Jones I don't see why we limit his ceiling so much. Speaking of Jones, it took him about 4 NHL seasons to really hit his stride. But I guess 40 games into Cholo's career we know what he is.
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Oddbob
Registered User
- Jan 21, 2016
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Cholowski definitely has a great opportunity to become a true #1 defenceman. He is impactful with the puck already as a rookie, and putting up decent production eventhough the coach seems content to play him less and less. He is smart with the puck, patient and skates well, with a little work in his own end he will be pretty darn good. Not sure what everyone is expecting when they are so convinced he can't be a top end guy. If he wasn't making an impact then I would be there with those who don't see it, but he came in right away on not a good team and has produced and played smart, which is why I am confident he is going to be a top 1-2 guy.
Shaman464
No u
Yeah, comparing him to a defenseman who averaged 0.62 ppg is limiting him. And he will never be like Seth Jones. Jones was already leagues better defensively than cholo at 18.
Frk It
Mo Seider Less Problems
- Jul 27, 2010
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I feel pretty good about Cholowski and Hronek, they are on a nice trajectory.
Maybe just need to use one more 1st rounder on a defenseman, then we could well have our group moving forward.
Maybe just need to use one more 1st rounder on a defenseman, then we could well have our group moving forward.
Two completely different players regarding their growth and physical maturity curves. Compare them both when Cholowski turns 26.
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