Further US Expansion for the CHL

[letterH]

As a longtime WHL fan I can say most fans love having the US teams in the league. The teams have always been well supported and Portland has a great history in the WHL. Many American fans travel to Kamloops, Kelowna and Vancouver for games and have been great. The players enjoy playing in the US cities as well. Its been a perfect fit here.

My understanding about Victoria not getting a team was that the city could not guarantee an arena deal in time. There was still too much uncertainty when the expansion talks were being settled. Plus the group who own the Silverbacks have very deep pockets and of course that helps.

Still hear that Boise is going to get a team soon. Attendance in some cities just doesnt make sense to keep teams there.

 

[Hockeypuck]

I know Boston area wants a team in the Q. Bourque is heading up the ownership.

Unfortunately Boston wouldn't support a Q team well at all Boston is a pro sports town. College hockey doesn't get great attendance except when the team is winning. And alot of those fans have ties to the schools which they wouldn't with a Q team.

 

[BCCHL inactive]

That gives a large market team to Portland and Seattle. These may not be hockey hotbeds but they must likely should be able to support a NHL team.

Portland is debatable, but forget about Seattle. First of all, they don't have a suitable arena for NHL hockey, and the Thunderbirds only average approximately 2,500-3,000 fans per game.

Speaking of WHL attendance, over the next few hours, I will be calculating the average attendance for each team so far this season. (Yes, I am bored...houseridden after surgery :p ) I will post results on the WHL Board later tonight.

Still hear that Boise is going to get a team soon. Attendance in some cities just doesnt make sense to keep teams there.

The WHL has no expansion plans for the near future. Everett got the team that Boise was looking for.

As for possible relocation, the WHL will also put forth every effort possible to avoid relocation to other divisional areas (for example, an Eastern team to the US or to Victoria) now that they have a perfect alignment.

 

[Lard_Lad]

As for possible relocation, the WHL will also put forth every effort possible to avoid relocation to other divisional areas (for example, an Eastern team to the US or to Victoria) now that they have a perfect alignment.

Kootenay wouldn't mind getting back in the central division, though. They're in the same time zone and the travelling isn't much more difficult. I can see if a prairie team got into financial trouble and wanted to move to Victoria, Kootenay would get bumped.

Wild prediction: I think we'll see a WHL team in Northern California sooner or later. There are enough California-born guys on WHL protected lists right now to ice a full team, and that number is going to keep growing.

 

[BCCHL inactive]

Wild prediction: I think we'll see a WHL team in Northern California sooner or later. There are enough California-born guys on WHL protected lists right now to ice a full team, and that number is going to keep growing.

No chance in hell any Eastern Conference owner votes in favour of this. The travel is expensive enough for these teams to make an annual trip West. Hell, the only owner I see realistically voting in favour is Portland, and perhaps a couple other US Division teams...but even they might have the sense of mind to make it a unanimous "NO" vote.

 

[Jim Bob]

Canadian Hockey League.

I think there are enough American teams.

How about this, you relocate the American Hockey League teams that are in Canada and then we'll relocated the CHL teams that are in the US?

Give me a break.

 

[Buannan]

Portland is debatable, but forget about Seattle. First of all, they don't have a suitable arena for NHL hockey, and the Thunderbirds only average approximately 2,500-3,000 fans per game.

Speaking of WHL attendance, over the next few hours, I will be calculating the average attendance for each team so far this season. (Yes, I am bored...houseridden after surgery :p ) I will post results on the WHL Board later tonight.



The WHL has no expansion plans for the near future. Everett got the team that Boise was looking for.

As for possible relocation, the WHL will also put forth every effort possible to avoid relocation to other divisional areas (for example, an Eastern team to the US or to Victoria) now that they have a perfect alignment.

without getting into all the boring political details, seattle will most likely never have an nhl team
first of all, as van stated, the key arena is NOT suitable for NHL hockey...it was purposely built to NOT meet regs for NHL
secondly, seattle likes boring no-contact, PC, sports, it's highly unlikely they would have the fan base (as van also stated)
next, seattle likes their NBA team and the city can't support both

as stated before...there's a whole political history with hockey and seattle and the nhl and various seattle mayors and so on...going clear back to the breakers and totems and ironmen

as for portland, right now they are putting all their energy into getting an MLB team, unfortunately, hockey is way down the list if it's on it at all

 

[OHLArenaGuide]

Foster, you forgot the Plymouth (MI) Whalers.

As for territorial rights, the OHL does take precedence, but if the Q put a team in Northern NY state then they'd have the rights to all NY players. The OHL would prefer that doesn't happen.

 

[FiveforFighting]

Another Q team in New England makes sense. Wouldn't increasethe exposure to the league form some good young talent from that area and make the league better as a whole?

 

[Jim Bob]

Foster, you forgot the Plymouth (MI) Whalers.

As for territorial rights, the OHL does take precedence, but if the Q put a team in Northern NY state then they'd have the rights to all NY players. The OHL would prefer that doesn't happen.

I would be surprised if a team in Northern NYS did all that well.

That's college hockey country and there isn't a large population base to pull from either.

Unless you put the team in Massena and hoped to draw a lot of fans from Cornwall and the surrounding area just across the border........

 

[OHLArenaGuide]

I'm not saying it would go over well... just that the next time a Robbie Schremp or Joe Mullen comes along, the Q would love to get their hands on him.

 

[LaLaLaprise]

Unfortunately Boston wouldn't support a Q team well at all Boston is a pro sports town. College hockey doesn't get great attendance except when the team is winning. And alot of those fans have ties to the schools which they wouldn't with a Q team.

Well youd probably know Boston hockey better than me, but if in fact Bourque is trying to get the team, do you think more fans would be interested in a team owned by Ray Bourque? Or would they just not care?

 

[Bruno8]

Chl

Well youd probably know Boston hockey better than me, but if in fact Bourque is trying to get the team, do you think more fans would be interested in a team owned by Ray Bourque? Or would they just not care?

I'm 99% sure Ray Bourque isn't involved in any New England QMJHL expansion/relocation group. New England locations are being considered.
Boston has too much hockey (Bruins, College, prep schools). Manchester, Worcester and others would make more sense.

 

[Chainshot]

I would love to see something in So. Ontario again. With St. Catharines and Niagara Falls both no longer home to any OHL franchises, the nearest location I have is Guelph or Erie---about 90 minutes in fair weather in either direction. I think with proper marketing and a solid arena, OHL style hockey would be a tremendous hit in WNY or Niagara again. I know of a few people more interested in seeing skaters who give a damn, who play for the love of the game, and of course at a less expensive cost than the pros.

As to the debate, if it makes sense for the individual leagues to place a team in any city, then so be it. If it's good for the development of hockey and talented hockey players, while good for the economic health of existing teams, then sure. If not, then no.

But as a nationalistic point... I think it's silly.

 

[VO #23]

It wasn't a "Victoria vs Everett" thing. Victoria was about 6 months/a year late with it's application for a franchise and the spot it would have taken up in the western conference was taken by everett. Sort of a you snooze you lose thing.

But the fact remains Victoria's spot was taken by an american team. And that doesn't sit well with me.

Victoria had a team once already and they moved. Having a team on Vancouver Island is a logistical nightmare due to the need of a ferry. Everett definitely made the most sense from a geographical standpoint as it is very close to Vancouver and Seattle, and allowed the WHL to have a division composed entirely of American teams.

 

[OHLArenaGuide]

We were debating further expansion options on the NOOF a month or so ago, and here's what we came up with - if the OHL expanded to 24 teams (diluted talent pools notwithstanding) then you'd have to think that North Bay would be near the top of the list for a new team. They sold 2700 season-ticket packages to keep the Centennials in town but Wren Blair was determined and the team left anyway. Now the city frequently packs in 3000 fans a game for the North Bay Skyhawks - a Junior A team!

Cornwall would be near the top of any list as well. They've renovated the Civic Complex and the QMJHL was thinking about a team there until the OHL nixed the deal. They have a long history of supporting junior hockey.

As discussed, the OHL wants a team in WNY.

Finally, the aforementioned team in WNY and a new Niagara Region team would definitely be desirable for the OHL. Currently the Erie Otters have no real local rivals, and a team in Southeastern Ontario would go over well. The only stumbling block is no arena. The Niagara Falls Memorial Arena only seats 3600 and it's old and run-down, so the OHL is in no real hurry to move back. An arena built somewhere in the western suburbs of Niagara Falls could draw in fans from St. Catharines as well, and the team could be marketed regionally.

So our new divisions would look like this:

East: BEL, COR, KGN, OSH, OTT, PET
Central: BAR, BRM, MIS, NB, SUD, TOR
Midwest: ERI, GUE, KIT, NF, OS, WNY
West: LDN, PLY, SAG, SAR, SSM, WSR

This would also move the Knights back to the West, which is where they want to be anyway, considering that London's biggest rivals are Windsor and Sarnia.

 

[Whawks33]

Hell, the only owner I see realistically voting in favour is Portland

I doubt you'd see Portland vote in favor of a Northern California WHL team, as they are trying to become the pipeline for California talent to the WHL. They drafted a couple of CA players last bantam draft (maybe even last couple of drafts) and have brought in a number of CA players to their training camp (some were placed on the protected list I believe). I don't think Portland would want the competition of a Northern California team.

Just as a general question to toss out for discussion...

What impact would more US based CHL teams have on NCAA hockey and NCAA rules? (I'm thinking specifically of the NCAA rule that considers CHL hockey to be pro hockey)

 

[CharlieGirl]

So our new divisions would look like this:

East: BEL, COR, KGN, OSH, OTT, PET
Central: BAR, BRM, MIS, NB, SUD, TOR
Midwest: ERI, GUE, KIT, NF, OS, WNY
West: LDN, PLY, SAG, SAR, SSM, WSR

This divisional lineup includes most, if not all, of the existing biggest rivalries in the league - nice job!

I can't see a team in Niagara Falls AND Western New York though.... I could see one or the other, but not both.

 

[Kugel]

When you look at the American based CHL teams the majority of them are in the WHL.

Spokane Chiefs
Tri-City Americans
Everett Silvertips
Portland Winter Hawks
Seattle Thunderbirds

That leaves 3 teams for the Q and the OHL

Saginaw Spirit
Erie Otters
Lewiston MAINEiacs

That gives a large market team to Portland and Seattle. These may not be hockey hotbeds but they must likely should be able to support a NHL team.

also plymouth is in detroit...i dont mind american teams but if they r still allowed more teams then it will turn into the NHL with only 6 CHL teams in canada. its cause the US doallar is worth more and the owners want to make money...thats y they leave can. cities

 

[eSabre]

The OHL would like a team in New York State to take away players from the QMJHL. There was some talk a few years ago about expanding to Elmira but they got a UHL team instead. Lately the talk has been about suburban Buffalo.

Oh man, if that ever would happen, I would definitely flip s***. OHL Hockey is AWESOME. I'd kill for a team within an hour, especially one in Buffalo. I think it'd really work in this area, and it would help to have a junior team in a US NHL market. Can anyone say "cross promotion"? Bring a junior team to this area and I guarantee Buffalo becomes one of the premier hockey towns in North America. Seriously.

Why not?

 

[BCCHL inactive]

Victoria had a team once already and they moved.

That was due to Rick Brodsky's utter selfishness. He gives nothing to his team's fans, and he takes everything they give him ($$$$). Victoria did support the Cougars very well at one point, but they got sick of Brodsky.

We're seeing the same thing happen in Prince George. Just two and a half years ago, we averaged 5,900+ in a 5,800-seat arena.......now we are lucky to get 3,500 in for a weekend game against a bitter rival like Kamloops or Kelowna. Our fans are realizing just what a selfish ******* Rick Brodsky is....and Brodsky isn't going to sell the team anytime soon.

Just an example of how much he is not willing to spend....this is the Prince George Cougars 10th anniversary....and the logo for this "special" season, is the words "10th Anniversary" painted on the ice by the blue lines. No logo, no patch for the jerseys, nothing but some words painted on the ice. How sick is that?

What impact would more US based CHL teams have on NCAA hockey and NCAA rules? (I'm thinking specifically of the NCAA rule that considers CHL hockey to be pro hockey)

None.

 

[Baron Von Shark]

Wild prediction: I think we'll see a WHL team in Northern California sooner or later. There are enough California-born guys on WHL protected lists right now to ice a full team, and that number is going to keep growing.

To be honest, that is why I started this topic. I was hoping this idea would find it's way into the thread. California is producing more and more talent heading into the WHL, USHL, NCAA, and various prep. school programs.

 

[Chainshot]

Oh man, if that ever would happen, I would definitely flip s***. OHL Hockey is AWESOME. I'd kill for a team within an hour, especially one in Buffalo. I think it'd really work in this area, and it would help to have a junior team in a US NHL market. Can anyone say "cross promotion"? Bring a junior team to this area and I guarantee Buffalo becomes one of the premier hockey towns in North America. Seriously.

Why not?

Within an hour? Even at the speeds I travel, the 100 miles to Guelph is usually 90 minutes figuring in parking and border crossing.

As for the promotion of major junior hockey, I would think it be extremely popular and would draw the dwindling entertainment dollar of WNY away from the NHL. If it's in the Falls, or a short hop up the 405 and the QEW in St. Catherines, they can draw from a classic junior hockey fanbase without as much impact on the NHL attendance. In either case, I'd be pleased. I'm still PO'd at Bassin for moving to Erie (old barn or no). Niagara Falls has the wherewithal to put in a new rink, but will they?

 

[Bookman]

I'd like to see a WHL team in Minnesota, maybe up north in Duluth. Minnesota would be a problem though, lying on the eastern extremities of the WHL, and the western extremities of the OHL. It's a longshot, but it would be cool to see some of these prospects instead of just reading about them.