News Article: "Fun With Numbers" - Advanced Stats Talk Here

Discussion in 'Ottawa Senators' started by BonkTastic, Aug 5, 2014.

  1. innocent bystander

    innocent bystander Registered User

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    Oh sick. Thank you very much sir.

    Yeah I've been noticing the problem with the goal-based stats. Been starting to look more at scoring chances and high-danger scoring chances.

    I'm also working on learning about "expected goals for." Not just gonna start using it until I fully understand it.
     
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  2. Peptic Balcers

    Peptic Balcers Registered User

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    Expected Goals are a better predictor of future scoring than Corsi, Goals
     
  3. Sens of Anarchy

    Sens of Anarchy Registered User

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    Any way to get the Az3 data on all the players?
     
  4. theanalytic

    theanalytic Registered User

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    I don't think so. Whatever is on the tableau page is what is available, at least to my knowledge. To be honest, I thought they had every player. They have had every player I have looked up, but I have only looked at "star" players.
     
  5. NyQuil

    NyQuil F.Y.R.O.U.S.

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    Karlsson was generational when it came to zone exits. We were a little spoiled I think - it might have been his greatest talent as a defenceman.
     
  6. Sens of Anarchy

    Sens of Anarchy Registered User

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    They have quite a number of players . Did not verify for all. What I was able to do was a 1 vs 1 comparison over a variety of time periods. I found you can download that data from the 1 to 1 comparison but , what I was looking for was a way to download the data for all the players they have listed in one shot, not necessarily all the players.
     
  7. DrEasy

    DrEasy Out rumptackling

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    They also probably have better personnel to do the retrieval. Still, they were the outlier in terms of successful retrieval; nothing to base a team plan on IMO.
     
  8. theanalytic

    theanalytic Registered User

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    There is a download button on the top right. It says it will download the workbook, but you need the Tableau app, and I do not have it. I'm not sure if by workbook they mean the whole data set, but I would guess that is what they mean.
    That is pretty much the full extent of my knowledge.
     
  9. Micklebot

    Micklebot Moderator

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    I hadn't seen that A3Z data before, seems interesting, but at first glance I'm a little skeptical of it's value, at least from what I've seen.

    Using breakup rates per 60 and entries per 60 sounds good, but it's going to be skewed by whether or not the team is a high pace team or a lower pace team. Strong defensive teams will have fewer chances to create breakups per 60, so is it good to be higher or lower?

    Idk, I think I prefer his work on pokemon similarity scores
    Tableau Public
     
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  10. Sens of Anarchy

    Sens of Anarchy Registered User

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    I like the defensive stats , especially the controlled exit stats. Possession is a big part of the game ...and measuring contribution .. Controlled exits are an increasingly important stat imo.
     
  11. Micklebot

    Micklebot Moderator

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    sure, but per 60 mins... Idk. If you're constantly hemming the opposition in their end, you'll never get a chance to break out of your own end and your per 60 numbers will suffer. I'd rather see something like success % that isn't dependent on how high pace the team is. It's not that the action being measured isn't important, it's that the way they are measuring it might not be providing the ability to derive useful insight.
     
  12. Sens of Anarchy

    Sens of Anarchy Registered User

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    always room for improvement. I expect we will see some in these dzone measurements
     
  13. Do Make Say Think

    Do Make Say Think & Yet & Yet

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    That and his ability to block a shot and start skating the other way, with the puck, seamlessly.

    What a stud :(
     
  14. innocent bystander

    innocent bystander Registered User

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    Good point that I hadn't considered.
     
  15. DrEasy

    DrEasy Out rumptackling

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    jehkob and Peptic Balcers like this.
  16. Sens of Anarchy

    Sens of Anarchy Registered User

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    Concur
     
  17. Sens of Anarchy

    Sens of Anarchy Registered User

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    Do you know if Total Hockey Ratings (THoR) is still a thing that is being modeled?
    Its interesting stuff. I have an extended background in data but more business data, metadata and content management so I am drawn to it. It does take an investment in time to really get a handle on whats available to collect and the tools to collect it. Just keeps ending up seeming like work.
     
  18. DrEasy

    DrEasy Out rumptackling

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    Doesn't look like it's been calculated the past few years, at least based on this link. Since it's Schuckers who apparently came up with the metric, you can go to the conference and ask him in person! :)

    The workshops on Friday look interesting, since they talk about how to scrape NHL data, and how to use Tableau.
     
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