Fueled by Passion and Delusion?

puck stoppa

Registered User
Jul 5, 2011
12,916
6,525
Winnipeg
I haven't posted much the last few weeks as I have found this place far too negative as well. I agree with OP and feel like King Woody as I havn't been coming to the boards as often. I think we are where we belong. The only thing that shocks me with the Jets is that it seems every player we bring in here via trade or FA doesn't do well, that is a head scratcher for me, as does that say the system needs to go or are all these players bad? Joker, Frolik, Seto, Poni boy all seemed to have regressed here, not sure why.
 

meedle

Registered User
May 17, 2011
4,985
91
Winnipeg
I haven't posted much the last few weeks as I have found this place far too negative as well. I agree with OP and feel like King Woody as I havn't been coming to the boards as often. I think we are where we belong. The only thing that shocks me with the Jets is that it seems every player we bring in here via trade or FA doesn't do well, that is a head scratcher for me, as does that say the system needs to go or are all these players bad? Joker, Frolik, Seto, Poni boy all seemed to have regressed here, not sure why.

I wondered the same thing. Why did all those people crash and burn? I think Noel's system is too hard to pick up and people can't adapt to it.
 

jamiebez

Registered User
Apr 5, 2005
4,025
327
Ottawa
Good topic.

I shied away from posting this at the start of the year, but I've been quietly pessimistic, at least compared to many here.

To me - in terms of personnel - the team is probably a little worse than last year. The loss of Burmistrov put us over the top in that regard (and wouldn't it be great to have him around these days :) ).

Combined with moving to the West, I haven't felt good about our chances. Going in, I figured Chicago and St. Louis were mortal locks for playoff spots, and the other 5 teams would fight it out for the last 2 spots. Right now with Colorado red-hot, looks like 1 spot for 4 teams. Our chances are worse than I feared.

The good news long-term (and medium-term) is that I think we can fill in front the bottom of the roster (bottom 6 F, bottom 2 D) and get to the playoffs.

We are a dominant C and G away from being a real contender, but you could say that about 25 teams
 

pcanuck

Registered User
Jun 6, 2011
613
0
Edmonton
I wondered the same thing. Why did all those people crash and burn? I think Noel's system is too hard to pick up and people can't adapt to it.

It's the system but the strategies are simply too old and are used when you only have quality D. Sorry if this is convoluted - I've only had a cup of coffee.

The system Noel has implemented all revolves on the defensive breakout. Meaning, the system Noel implemented in Winnipeg was based on the defensive corps he received. The D are the strength of the lineup. Meaning the D are expected to push the puck up the ice and either dump the puck in and chase and/or take the puck in themselves creating odd man chances immediately. This generally is associated with less talented offensive players expected to win battles along the boards and cycle the puck. As the Dman chases, a forward remaining in the neutral zone becomes the potential back-checker and defensive magnet taking the secondary man (of the opposing team) should we lose the boards battle.

It would be better if I had a whiteboard. Players like Bogo really are not well fit for this so you see him generally tail off and return to his defensive assignment. Buff really loves this. Those who won't like this system are F puck carriers like Kane, Wheeler (esp.), Little and Ladd who need more momentum. That is why Burmi was benched, because he didn't want to play the chase game because getting the puck is difficult and he was often trapped when the puck was lost and he was getting physical. Not that he didn't try. Noel wants the forwards to trap/ play tough in the neutral ice creating odd man chances in the offensive zone immediately. So a player like Buff is able to use the corners and skate in with speed for chances and the trailing players get rebounds (touch any of those players and it's interference).

This is not the only breakout, but it is the one preached by Noel. The secondary strategy employed is designed around a cross-ice pass and.or straight up rush with pass which catches the defenders moving E-W rather than N-S. The idea is for forwards to speed through neutral ice receiving the puck from a D/F. This strategy will benefit forwards with D simply trailing the play. The problem inherent in this approach is that it violates the assumptions of the defensive strategy and that our forwards are ill equipped to create the distractions necessary in the neutral zone. This allows the opposing team's defensive partners to be well aware of what's coming. It's a very old strategy.

Unfortunately we don't see a lot of this secondary play because our defensive scheme requires lane driven assignments where players play in the line, similar to a diamond D where the team collapses to the net rather than play a box system. When you see us play the box, we're in fact out of the defensive alignment and lanes are free.

The problems associated with this system is that you're taking the puck out of the hands of your star forwards. I'd prefer a cross matched set hybrid positioned pass. This generally allows the defensive breakout to occur anywhere and in any fashion up the ice. Most coaches hate this because it is too free flow. It is less system based and is built on decision making rather than systems. Kovalchuk, Ovie love this!

The D on Winnipeg that would benefit most would be Enstrom, Postma, Bogo and/or Trouba (quick start and stop). As they bring the puck up, the trailing D plays defensive (Clitsome, Redmond) to cover mistakes. The forwards are aligned within the defensive and neutral zone gaining speed. Prior to the Dman getting to the red line, a pass is made to either forwards in a position to see the defensive alignment and make the decision to pass, dump in and/or rush. Generally the dump in is seen as the last option. The first option is almost always a pass to players with more momentum. Once the puck enters the offensive zone, players are expected to open up the ice by getting in passing lanes rather than seeking the puck. This approach uses speed and player positioning. It allows for line combos like Jokinen, Seto, Kane to be snipers with Scheifele and Little to use their passing skill. It would benefit a Ladd-Little-Wheeler line. In this approach, one Dman will likely enter the zone to take out the centreman by driving to the net but in fact, it's the late trailing Dman who skirts the blue line and enters the slot (they become more dangerous). The D are unfamiliar with where players will position because they can change on the fly. Usually a line change here can really screw up a defensive squad and someone is wide open.
 

Positive

Enjoy your flight
May 4, 2007
6,146
1,468
Osborne Village in the 'Peg
I haven't posted much the last few weeks as I have found this place far too negative as well. I agree with OP and feel like King Woody as I havn't been coming to the boards as often. I think we are where we belong. The only thing that shocks me with the Jets is that it seems every player we bring in here via trade or FA doesn't do well, that is a head scratcher for me, as does that say the system needs to go or are all these players bad? Joker, Frolik, Seto, Poni boy all seemed to have regressed here, not sure why.

Well Frolik is on pace to double his career points high. As for Seto it's still early. Joki is looking to bounce back to around the 40pt mark.
 

bazaaa*

Guest
When we got Setoguchi, I posted numerous times I'm worried he won't do well without someone to give him the puck. Even more so on a line with Kane. If you watch his highlights from last year almost every single goal was from a great pass by Cullen. I was hoping Scheif could be that guy, but it doesn't look like that any time soon.

I don't think many would agree, and it probably sounds stupid, but I think Wellwood would have been a good linemate for Setoguchi. He'd be the closest thing we'd have to a playmaker.
 

Huffer

Registered User
Jul 16, 2010
16,704
6,366
It's the system but the strategies are simply too old and are used when you only have quality D. Sorry if this is convoluted - I've only had a cup of coffee....

pcanuck, I hope you don't take this the wrong way, but I would love to read more posts like this, than ones where you say things like Buff and Enstrom should be put on waivers or bought out (which you have to have the intelligence and hockey knowledge to know makes 0 sense in reality). There is a lot of really good info and insight in this post.

From reading this it really looks like good reinforcement (if this is the case), that Noel is not using a system that is tailored to the strengths of his players.
 

Warhead77

Jets4Life
Jun 28, 2011
796
0
The River City
Noel has to go. Chevy has done his job and somewhat improved this team for three straight years (with the most significant additions this summer), yet Noel hasn't improved the team whatsoever during his tenure.

The writing for Noel to be fired is on the wall.

^
This.

Chevy has done his job in improving the team, within his means, for the past three years. Noel is the one who has 'dropped the ball' in terms of coaching.

I agree. He has to go. You can also question the rest of his coaching staff.
 

cbcwpg

Registered User
May 18, 2010
20,177
20,645
Between the Pipes
When, during last season word came that we were moving to the west and we were going to be in the same division as CHI, MINN, ST.L, NASH ( and no, I did not expect COL to be doing what they are doing, which makes it even worse now ) I had no expectations of us making the playoffs.

I hope to be proven wrong, but we just don't have what it takes right now. Maybe a coaching change will help....dunno. And the injuries piling up isn't helping either.
 

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