From watching the QMJHL game last night (not a Crosby Thread!)

Discussion in 'NHL Draft - Prospects' started by Mizral, Nov 14, 2004.

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  1. Mizral

    Mizral Registered User

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    (Not a Crosby thread! Imagine that!)

    Anyhow, I watched the QMJHL game last night, it was darn entertaining. I like this Rimouski goaltender, and yeah Crosby played well (get that out of the way).

    However one thing I really, really noticed. I'm sure this will draw some ire from Q fans, but it's darn true and I think if you step back and look at the three leagues, you will notice this as well.

    The Q has some terrible blueliners. Like, wow, really bad compared to the other leagues. For a while last night I thought I was watching a BCHL game there. The Q has a bunch of really talented forwards, but man the D-men are bad. We knew this for years mind you, few good blueliners make it out of the Q compared to the OHL or WHL, but yikes, rarely did I see the difference between the three leagues so profoundly on a night like that.

    Now, in relation to Crosby which I'm sure most people will immediatly get to, I don't know. He's super talented and I think he'd be doing well no matter what league. But in particular, I wonder if other top youngsters get more points than they would in the OHL or WHL due to the poor quality on the blueline out there in Quebec? It just seems, particularly out here in the 'Dub, that they play so much more of an NHL defense. There are 3 or 4 goals scored in that Rimouski/Gatineau game that I do not believe would have seen the light of day out here, and I assume it's the same in the OHL.

    Q fans are quick to point to the GAA's out there these days, and statistically speaking they are somewhat correct. I believe the goaltenders out there offset a great deal of it mind you, but I do notice a difference every time I watch a QMJHL game.

    Do we overvalue guys who put up big points in the Q? Do you agree the bluelines are that much worse? Do you believe it makes a difference at all? Discuss!
     
  2. QcS

    QcS Registered User

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    The Q has some terrible blueliners.

    although the Q does have a weak defense, it is important not to make that judgement based solely on last night's game. Hull's team lost its top 3 d-men after last season and are playing with lots of young guys.

    #5 on the Hull team (Jonathan Carrier) does look like he's going to develop into a VERY reliable dman, but he's still young (youngest player in the league, he just turned 16).

    Also interesting to note is that the constant interference by defensemen we see in the WHL or even the NHL is not present in the Q. When a puck is dumped in, rarely will we see dmen make clear interference. The refs in the Q have called more interference and hooking in the past, though still not enough for me yet.

    Still, Québec does not produce that many top notch dmen.. since Ray Bourque, we haven't really had dmen make a huge impact in the NHL.

    But yeah, the Q game is damn entertaining :)
     
  3. Blind Gardien

    Blind Gardien nexus of the crisis

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    Agreed on the observation about the Quebec D... mind you, picking Rimouski and Gatineau does not necessarily give a representative sample. But even that aside, I would agree to the generalisation that the defense in the Q is much weaker than in the other 2 leagues.

    And yes, this must naturally result in a diminishment of the value of points scored there.

    As to why the defense is worse... there just seem to be fewer coaches who really dig their claws in and enforce systems on the players. I'm sure there are some. And I'm sure that all the coaches are good coaches who are capable of it. But there just doesn't seem to be the same trend-setting and trend-adhering in that regard as crops up in the WHL first, and the OHL to a lesser extent. Which probably extends down the developmental tiers also for the Quebec products. I'm not convinced this is a bad thing either... like Leph28 said, there is a lot less obstruction too. Players are more free to be creative.

    Plus I just think the depth players in general in the Q are weaker than in the other two leagues. Looking at the 4th liners and third-defense pairs, I would generalise that many of the Quebec leaguers couldn't make it in the other leagues.

    All that said, I prefer to watch a Quebec league game, generally speaking, to any other junior league.

    Oh yeah, and the thing that impressed me most about the game last night, aside from Crosby, were the "post-lights" at the Bob. Flashy. Snazzy. Gotta get those everywhere asap. :)
     
  4. littleHossa

    littleHossa Registered User

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    I think it's unfair to call the QMJHL defensemen "bad", and that they don't compare to the WHL and OHL defensemen at all. Keep in mind that the Memorial Cup is played every year and 1 or 2 teams from the QMJHL are in the Memorial Cup and they hold their own quite well against the other teams. Their defensemen do not get overpowered on every shift by the WHL/OHL forwards and it's always up to the (2nd cliche)superior QMJHL goalie to make the save. Whether they turn into NHL players or not is something different.

    The WHL is just more physical and systems are a bigger part of the team's game. The dmen play the same style of play that will get them in the NHL, while in contrast the forwards don't get to develop their talent enough and fewer WHL forwards make it. You can't call any of the dmen/forwards in the different leagues bad just because not as many make the NHL, they are all required to do different things in each of their leagues, but at the end, the teams as a whole are pretty much identical, showing that those individual players are not weaknesses. And to finish, you didn't really give any real examples Miz of what you saw last night.
     
  5. Blackshad

    Blackshad Registered User

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    Yeah maybe the Q has the worst blueliner.. but they have the bests goalers!!!
    Dont base what you think about Q blueliner on what you saw last night. This was 2 offencive teams that doesnt rely on defence to win.
     
  6. Habsfan 32

    Habsfan 32 Registered User

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    How did Bryan Wilson look number 2 for Gatineau or Hull
     
  7. LaLaLaprise

    LaLaLaprise lalalaprise -twitter

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    People in Quebec are smaller. I know sounds odd but we just dont have those 6'05 defensmen growing on trees. If you look at Midget drafts the average size of a dman drafted into the QMJHL is like 5'11 170...not too big.

    I think the forwards in all 3 leagues are comparable but the goalies in the QMJHl cover up a lot more mistakes than in the other 2 leagues. It seems 50% of QMJHL teams have 2 goalies who could be #1's.
     
  8. QcS

    QcS Registered User

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    were the "post-lights" at the Bob

    it was the first time i saw them last night at the game (and i go to most home games). I wasn't at the game friday vs Victoriaville, so i don't know if it was there or if it was just for TV. I personally didn't like them.. if i was a goalie, the last thing i'd want is for my goalposts to flash after a goal.. talk about putting it in your face. haha +, the goal judge went trigger happy last night and it lit up the goalposts right in the middle of play. Distracting.

    How did Bryan Wilson look number 2 for Gatineau or Hull

    He was just recalled this past week due to an injury to Nicolas Ranger. I missed friday's game, but yesterday he seemed fine. I had seen him play in training camp and had been solid in some games but very shaky in others. I'll let you know more if he stays up with the team.. Hull are going to be home often in the next month and i'm also going to a game out of town.
     
  9. QcS

    QcS Registered User

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    People in Quebec are smaller

    probably has to do with different mentalities. Personally, i like seeing the small, flashy, talented guys.. especially with my team since it usually means they can stay for a full 4 years :)

    Considering the dmen we have in the Q, and the lack of systematic, trapping, physical play you see in the W, the small forwards can thrive in the Q.

    If i'm not mistaken, Baie comeau has one that is like 5'4. :eek:
     
  10. paul99

    paul99 Registered User

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    Top 10 Mosaik MasterCard LCH – Week No 5
    Rg Équipe SD SC
    1 Knights de London (17-0-1-0) 1 5
    2 Tigers de Medicine Hat (13-2-1-0) 2 5
    3 Wildcats de Moncton (15-5-1-0) 3 5
    4 Saguenéens de Chicoutimi (13-5-3-2) 4 4
    5 Blades de Saskatoon (12-4-1-0) 5 3
    6 Thunderbirds de Seattle (12-4-0-0) 6 3
    7 Remparts de Québec (13-5-3-1) 10 2
    8 Battalion de Brampton (10-6-2-1) 7 4
    9 Olympiques de Gatineau (11-7-2-2) 8 5
    10 Rangers de Kitchener (10-5-2-0) NR 1

    *******

    4 QMJHL teams in the CHL Top 10!

    And most Quebec blueliners would not make the OHL and the CHL?

    Come on boys.
     
  11. Habsfan 32

    Habsfan 32 Registered User

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    All righty Leph28 thank u
     
  12. Mizral

    Mizral Registered User

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    In regards to the goaltenders..

    It's worth noting for the first time in.. well, as far as I can remember, the WJC Canadian team might not feature a French-Canadian keeper. Who are the top keepers in the other leagues? Right now, Kevin Nastiuk is probobly the best goaltender in the CHL, along with other highly capable netminders in Jeff Glass, Bryan Bridges, and younger guys in Devyn Dubnyk, Carey Price, and Marek Schwarz.

    I'm not sure the Q has that level of talent this year at least. In the past, sure, but this year?

    (Not to mention that Ward, Harding, and Guard all graduated last year, amongst others. The WHL has actually quietly become a bit of a goaltending factory itself.)
     
  13. littleHossa

    littleHossa Registered User

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    So you just like to stir up controversy without backing it up, thx for the new firewood, we'll just throw it in the fire, I wonder how long this thread can still go, Miz, you're famous!
     
  14. Jeffrey

    Jeffrey Registered User

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    i just hope that the WJC commitee will at least invite 1 goalie from the Q..
    im pretty sure he could surprise at camp ...
    Q goalie are the most technical of all.. you always need that type of goaltending IMO...
     
  15. Colt.45Orr

    Colt.45Orr Registered User

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    I would agree... the average WHL blue-liner is much more physical than in the QMJHL...

    I love alot of the guys in the Q -but it seems like most of the D-men spots from #3,4,5,6 look like they are TierII guys who need to hit the gym...
     
  16. Vlad The Impaler

    Vlad The Impaler Registered User

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    The quality of blueliners in the Q is definitly subpar. The will to fix this is not completely there yet. That being said, Q players who are reportedly too small and benefitting from crappy opposing blueliners fare pretty well against better Ds.

    I remember when Simon Gamache was supposedly too slow and would struggle against the top notch, big Red Deer defense at the Mem. Cup and he toyed with all those guys all night long, as did his teammates and it took refereeing that was biased beyond anything I had ever seen for Red Deer to finally win this game.

    It still doesn't change the fact that blueliners in the Q don't have the quality they should have and it needs to be fixed. And yeah, the point totals are slightly inflated because of it but it also underlines a focus on gifted skill forwards in this league. So it works both ways, IMO.

    And as you said, the goaltending is usually very competitive too.

    You just have to put the numbers in their proper context when eveluating scoring forwards and you're fine. The same is true of every league out there, for what it's worth.

    The WHL is just unreal when it comes to churning out big quality blueliners and I doubt it's going to change anytime soon. Nobody else comes close and them being part of the CHL does make the Q look even worse. There's no excuse, though. We need better defensemen in the Q.
     
  17. pei fan

    pei fan Registered User

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    Well we(PEI ROCKET of the Q) have former OHLer Michael Charette on a team
    that lost 5 of their 6 defencemen and is being lead by a 17 year old so we
    thought this 20 year old might be a strong addition to the team.Well,I cringe
    every time he is on the ice.He is the worse d-man on the team. :shakehead
     
  18. Chief

    Chief Registered User

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    Although I'm sure there's many reasons for the lack of NHL caliber D-men coming from the Q, I wonder how much of it has to do with the fact that the Q is known for offense and goaltending and, as a result, the more talented players either want to be and/or are pushed to be forwards or goalies?
     
  19. reffree

    reffree Registered User

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    Well well well... with the best defense in the CHL and the best Goalies of the CHL (and probably the best forward too :joker: ) Q and O team will have a hard time at the Mem Cup !!!! :help:

    (sarcasm)
     
  20. FREE DENTAL CARE

    FREE DENTAL CARE Registered User

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    Stupid or What?

    This post brought out some of the least informed repiles. FYI of the 108 d-men listed on posted "Q" rosters, 55 are 6'2' or taller and 17 are 6'4" taller. Take a lok at the d-men on Rimouski for example.
     
  21. Flames Draft Watcher

    Flames Draft Watcher Registered User

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    Well if your argument is that the best Q teams defense are comparable to the defense of the best WHL and OHL teams then that doesn't really prove anything about your average Q defender now does it?
     
  22. QcS

    QcS Registered User

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    and who said anything about d-men's heights?

    People said they were sub-par, not small.

    Rimouski's defense is a prime example.
     
  23. LaLaLaprise

    LaLaLaprise lalalaprise -twitter

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    55 of 108 are 6'02!! OMG!! :banghead:

    The average NHL defensmen is 6'03 and less than half of the QMJHL dmen are 6'02 or more.

    Also look at weight. There are a lot of been poles in the league.
     
  24. LaLaLaprise

    LaLaLaprise lalalaprise -twitter

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    I mentioned that there arent MANY big dmen in the league.
     
  25. LaLaLaprise

    LaLaLaprise lalalaprise -twitter

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    EXACLTY!

    People shouldnt compare how different CHL teams do against teams of the other 2 leagues. It isnt an accurate test.

    I cant see how ANY QMJHL fan can even try and defend this argument. We develop poor defensmen. Simple as that. Is there shame in admitting it?? Nope. Its just not something we are good at it.
     
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