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Hackett

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SeattleCloutierFan said:
Seattle could support a team. We have Key Arena. The Thunderbirds used to draw up to 9,000 back in the day. The problem is hockey just hasn't been pushed in this town but there is history and fans here.

I'm dreaming... I know...

I heard of this controversy where Key Arena might be rennovated with taxpayer money... you prolly know better than me.....

if thats the case, maybe the key arena will be apt for hockey because as of right now, the Key Arena is not designed to host a pro hockey franchise.
 

me2

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Top Shelf said:
Exactly.. nice post.

I've been to vegas plenty of times (and have lost plenty of dough in the process). The corporate support for a pro-team, any pro team, would be mind boggling in Vegas.

Everything is comp'ed in Vegas. I can see the advertisements now - come stay at 'x' hotel b/c we have $4 dollar steak dinners and we'll give you two free tickets to an NHL game. All of the casino resorts would offer some kind of a NHL ticket package as a bonus to stay in their hotel.

You can only gamble so long in Vegas before you need a break and this is the city that never, ever sleeps. That is why you see so many shows in Vegas - tourists need a break from gambling and most people in Vegas are there on vacation and have lots of time and money to spend.

Also - Nascar has already beat everybody to the punch out there and you "bet" you can already buy "Nascar" vacation packages to Vegas.

I see nothing but potential in this market - especially for the first pro league who takes the chance.

Sport, and in particular a tribal (and marginal) sport like the hockey wouldn't be a big attraction. People go to Vegas to see the shows, do some gambling, to experience the place. Celine Dion, magic shows, circus events etc aren't tribally orientated.

I just don't see NHL hockey drawing big numbers of tourists. You might get the odd hockey tourist going there for a good time and using hockey as an excuse, but we wouldn't be talking about a lot of people. National and international sporting events might attract tourists, but these tend to be one off car races and boxing type events.

Would you fly to a Berlin to watch a game of handball between two clubs you didn't care about? I wouldn't, 99.9999% of the world wouldn't. I'm sure the some of the casinos would want to make packages, but enough to make a big affect on numbers, I'll question that until I see it. The NHL team in Vegas would need to be supported primarily by a strong fan base of local Mr & Mrs Joe averages.

Does Vegas have that local fan base, maybe or maybe not.
 

WC Handy*

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me2 said:
Sport, and in particular a tribal (and marginal) sport like the hockey wouldn't be a big attraction. People go to Vegas to see the shows, do some gambling, to experience the place. Celine Dion, magic shows, circus events etc aren't tribally orientated.

I just don't see NHL hockey drawing big numbers of tourists. You might get the odd hockey tourist going there for a good time and using hockey as an excuse, but we wouldn't be talking about a lot of people. National and international sporting events might attract tourists, but these tend to be one off car races and boxing type events.

Would you fly to a Berlin to watch a game of handball between two clubs you didn't care about? I wouldn't, 99.9999% of the world wouldn't. I'm sure the some of the casinos would want to make packages, but enough to make a big affect on numbers, I'll question that until I see it. The NHL team in Vegas would need to be supported primarily by a strong fan base of local Mr & Mrs Joe averages.

Does Vegas have that local fan base, maybe or maybe not.

The picture you paint isn't an accurate one. I wouldn't go out of my way to take the 45 minute flight to Chicago to watch a Hawks/Wings game. But if I were in Chicago and someone offered me free tickets I'd certainly take them. This is exactly what would happen in Vegas. Half of the arena would be casino season ticket owners and they would give away tickets to their customers. Then there'd be some additional corporate owned season tickets and then probably not many seats left for the general public to purchase. Maybe the place would be filled every night, but selling tickets would not be a problem.

My biggest concern with putting a team in Vegas is that the professional sports industry is just waiting to jump on Vegas but with the gambling stigma every league is afraid. If the NHL makes the jump there's no doubt in my mind that other leagues will also make the jump. Vegas is a great market for hockey if it's the only pro sports team. But is it a great market if it's one of three pro sports teams?
 

PecaFan

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me2 said:
Would you fly to a Berlin to watch a game of handball between two clubs you didn't care about? I wouldn't, 99.9999% of the world wouldn't.

Why not?

I watched a hockey game on vacation in Tampa between two teams I didn't care about.
I watched a hockey game on vacation in Anaheim between two teams I didn't care about.
I watched a baseball game on vacation in Seattle between two teams I didn't care about.
I watched a baseball game on vacation in Chicago between two teams I didn't care about.
I watched a baseball game on vacation in Oakland between two teams I didn't care about.
 

mr gib

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futurcorerock said:
So? Do best players have to learn on outdoor rinks to further expand the game? That doesnt answer why there are players coming out of Texas and Southern California. By that logic, The Inuits should be dominating the NHL.

We're looking at what's on the surface here with expansion - Can Las Vegas consistently put up revenue numbers year in and year out which compete with the rest of the NHL?

IMO, the answer is yes.
he got ya - we don't have frozen ponds or outdoor rinks in vancouver - ( someone had to bite )
 

garry1221

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WC Handy said:
The picture you paint isn't an accurate one. I wouldn't go out of my way to take the 45 minute flight to Chicago to watch a Hawks/Wings game. But if I were in Chicago and someone offered me free tickets I'd certainly take them. This is exactly what would happen in Vegas. Half of the arena would be casino season ticket owners and they would give away tickets to their customers. Then there'd be some additional corporate owned season tickets and then probably not many seats left for the general public to purchase. Maybe the place would be filled every night, but selling tickets would not be a problem.

My biggest concern with putting a team in Vegas is that the professional sports industry is just waiting to jump on Vegas but with the gambling stigma every league is afraid. If the NHL makes the jump there's no doubt in my mind that other leagues will also make the jump. Vegas is a great market for hockey if it's the only pro sports team. But is it a great market if it's one of three pro sports teams?

also poses the question: would the gamblers in vegas actually use the tickets? hell, if i'm hittin big on the tables or slots and i check my watch and see that i should be getting ready to head to the game, but i could just as easily stay here and keep winning, which would the competent person do? answer: stay and keep gambling, like the casino and city wants you to do.

the team in vegas would have to compete with the lure of the casino. there's a reason there aren't clocks visible in the casino, they want you to stay as long as you possibly can and feed the machines as much as possible... they don't want you saying, ok i've gambled for an hour, now i want to go see a hockey game, where there is no gambling, but we could see a fight or two.

Yes the coporate support would be there, but I don't believe the fans would. Sure you might get the locals coming to see the game, but IMO the tourists wouldn't. as someone mentioned above, you don't fly to vegas to see a game between two teams you don't really care about. someone mentions the words vegas or reno and the very first thing that comes to mind is GAMBLING! I just can't see the NHL doing great in vegas. MLB or NFL might.... but the bambling issue is the major drawback there IMO. this is why i've said time and time again i can't see any major league expanding to vegas.
 

futurcorerock

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Nov 15, 2003
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mr gib said:
he got ya - we don't have frozen ponds or outdoor rinks in vancouver - ( someone had to bite )
Well, he commented on my post so I'd offer rebuttle. What he said didnt add anything to the argument anyhow.

Just covering all the angles.
 

AM

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Nov 22, 2004
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would I go see a game in Vegas

while I was on vacation there?

Of course!

Lets see... its not 40 below(go to a game at 40below and you'll know what I mean), I'm on vacation, I could be lossing money at the casino or watching hockey, the Vegas team just happens to be the Stanley Cup Champions....

Yes, its a no brainer!
 

Sotnos

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Not to compare Tampa to Vegas (Vegas has a lot more interesting distractions), but I've frequently met people at games who are not Tampa or the opponents' fans, but are just catching a hockey game for the heck of it while they're on vacation. You also get people who time their vacation so they can catch their favorite team on the road down here. I don't think it's so inconceivable that a team in Vegas would draw tourists in, and a whole heck of a lot of tickets would be snapped up by casinos.

The corporate support would definitely be there, but as someone else said, would there be butts in the seats? Not sure. It would be an interesting experiment, but now is not really the time for the League to be experimenting!
 

craig1

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garry1221 said:
also poses the question: would the gamblers in vegas actually use the tickets? hell, if i'm hittin big on the tables or slots and i check my watch and see that i should be getting ready to head to the game, but i could just as easily stay here and keep winning, which would the competent person do? answer: stay and keep gambling, like the casino and city wants you to do.

the team in vegas would have to compete with the lure of the casino. there's a reason there aren't clocks visible in the casino, they want you to stay as long as you possibly can and feed the machines as much as possible... they don't want you saying, ok i've gambled for an hour, now i want to go see a hockey game, where there is no gambling, but we could see a fight or two.

Yes the coporate support would be there, but I don't believe the fans would. Sure you might get the locals coming to see the game, but IMO the tourists wouldn't. as someone mentioned above, you don't fly to vegas to see a game between two teams you don't really care about. someone mentions the words vegas or reno and the very first thing that comes to mind is GAMBLING! I just can't see the NHL doing great in vegas. MLB or NFL might.... but the bambling issue is the major drawback there IMO. this is why i've said time and time again i can't see any major league expanding to vegas.

I live relatively close to Vegas. There is a 90% chance I will be living there in about 2 months. I've been researching the city a lot, both through conversations with city officials and businessmen, along with a large variety of people that I know who live there. This is where I think one major point is being overlooked......

.....The vast majority of people who live in the Vegas area, have no desire to gamble, participate in gambling, or even step foot in the casinos (with the exception of catching a possible show, or a night out for dinner at one of the better restaraunts). The population of Vegas (the actual people who live and work there) view the casinos as something that drives the rest of the cities economy. For someone like me, who does not really gamble in casinos (I'm highly active in the stock markets....that's the only gambling I like, since my information and abilities greatly outweighs that of the vast majority of others there....I like those odds.).

Yes, a team would attract visitors. But there is a massive population base, most of whom have nothing to do with the vaunted Strip. Combine the two, and a team would draw really, really well.
 
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