from 11 to 10

[Ol' Dirty Chinaman*]

Rumors out of San Francisco have the SF Giants building and owning an arena next door to SBC Park. There is talk that an arena football team owned by the 9ers will play there.

SF now has 1 mil people and there are about 5.5 mil in the Bay Area altogether, including Oakland and excluding San Jose. People in SF have lots of money as well and there are many transplants from back east.

They are close to the San Jose Sharks though, 1-1/2 hour drive.

They've have a natural rivalry with Los Angeles, Anaheim and San Jose right off the bat.

****, the next CBA should have a new rule that "No more teams shall be expanded or reloacted in the state of California". Honestly, 3 teams in the same state is too ****ing much.

 

[Ol' Dirty Chinaman*]

Easily one of the most ignorant statements on expansion, ever.

Could argue that Carolina, Florida, Tampa Bay, Dallas, Atlanta, Phoenix, Nashville, Southern California each "just don't feel right."

Vegas' success with a franchise could be comparable to that of a team like Columbus' based on the media market available that has no major sports franchises there.

Uh no.

Ohio's been producing hockey players for years now, they have a solid college hockey program, and the game is known at the GRASSROOTS level.

Vegas *IS* in the middle of a freaking desert, nobody grows up in Vegas wanting to be hockey players, or even PLAY hockey much less.

CAN WE STOP SHOVING HOCKEY DOWN THE THROATS OF PEOPLE WHO DON'T CARE AND BRING IT TO THE ONES WHO DO ?

As for "not feeling right", on your list these teams should be removed to make the NHL better:

Carolina, remove
Florida, remove
Tampa Bay, well they won a cup so they're saved
Dallas, keep
Atlanta, remove
Phoenix, remove
Nashville, keep
Anaheim, remove

Hopefully this list will have offended you enough.

 

[kdb209]

****, the next CBA should have a new rule that "No more teams shall be expanded or reloacted in the state of California". Honestly, 3 teams in the same state is too ****ing much.

Then you should also complain about New York. Buffalo to Uniondale is about as far as SF to Anaheim.

You do realize how big a state California is (both size and population) - that it would cover the entire East Coast from Connecticut to Georgia, and that SF to LA is about as far as Boston to Washington DC.

So come out and say what you really mean - you don't like expansion to non-traditional markets.

 

[craig1]

You do realize how big a state California is (both size and population) - that it would cover the entire East Coast from Connecticut to Georgia, and that SF to LA is about as far as Boston to Washington DC.

If California was a seperate country.........and living here, I sometimes feel that it is........it would have the 5th largest economy in the world.

Also, California is 770 miles long and 250 miles wide.......

 

[coyoteshockeyfan]

There are more professional hockey teams in Texas than in the ENTIRE country of CANADA. Who would have figured for such a red-neck, non-hockey state. :

I have never heard this before, and find it very interesting. Can you elaborate on this a bit, or provide a link?

Thanks.

 

[Ol' Dirty Chinaman*]

Then you should also complain about New York. Buffalo to Uniondale is about as far as SF to Anaheim.

You do realize how big a state California is (both size and population) - that it would cover the entire East Coast from Connecticut to Georgia, and that SF to LA is about as far as Boston to Washington DC.

So come out and say what you really mean - you don't like expansion to non-traditional markets.

Name me another major sport that has 3 franchises in California.

 

[Wetcoaster]

Name me another major sport that has 3 franchises in California.

NBA has four teams in California.
MLB has five teams in California.
NFL has three teams in California.

 

[Ol' Dirty Chinaman*]

Damn I just got pwned.

 

[free0717]

Hartford cant really support the Wolfpack. Why do you think it would support an NHL team.

Portland and Houston would support an NHL team. But I hope these are Relocation sites, not new expansion.

 

[free0717]

Uh no.

Ohio's been producing hockey players for years now, they have a solid college hockey program, and the game is known at the GRASSROOTS level.

Vegas *IS* in the middle of a freaking desert, nobody grows up in Vegas wanting to be hockey players, or even PLAY hockey much less.

CAN WE STOP SHOVING HOCKEY DOWN THE THROATS OF PEOPLE WHO DON'T CARE AND BRING IT TO THE ONES WHO DO ?

As for "not feeling right", on your list these teams should be removed to make the NHL better:

Carolina, remove
Florida, remove
Tampa Bay, well they won a cup so they're saved
Dallas, keep
Atlanta, remove
Phoenix, remove
Nashville, keep
Anaheim, remove

Hopefully this list will have offended you enough.

Remove Nashville also. Al they care about is Football, ACC Basketball and NASCAR

 

[MojoJojo]

Geographical distance is not the issue most likely.

Seattle falls under the Vancouver Canuck's territorial rights, Portland does not.

Theoretically, there could be a franchise in Seattle if it comes down to it, but I can see Vancouver incurring a 5m-10m territorial rights fee just like Toronto and Buffalo.

So an investor would just set the franchise down in Portland and not have to deal with any of that.

Territorial rights fee? what are you talking about? The two cities are over a 100 miles apart.

 

[jamiebez]

Territorial rights fee? what are you talking about? The two cities are over a 100 miles apart.

I've heard that the territorial rights limit is 75 miles. Take it with a grain of salt, though....

 

[Hasbro]

I've heard that the territorial rights limit is 75 miles. Take it with a grain of salt, though....

Even if Seattle is outside of Vancouver's territory, the Canucks can influence the movement to other locations.

 

[futurcorerock]

Uh no.

Ohio's been producing hockey players for years now, they have a solid college hockey program, and the game is known at the GRASSROOTS level.

Vegas *IS* in the middle of a freaking desert, nobody grows up in Vegas wanting to be hockey players, or even PLAY hockey much less.

CAN WE STOP SHOVING HOCKEY DOWN THE THROATS OF PEOPLE WHO DON'T CARE AND BRING IT TO THE ONES WHO DO ?

As for "not feeling right", on your list these teams should be removed to make the NHL better:

Carolina, remove
Florida, remove
Tampa Bay, well they won a cup so they're saved
Dallas, keep
Atlanta, remove
Phoenix, remove
Nashville, keep
Anaheim, remove

Hopefully this list will have offended you enough.

Nah, just baseless rhretoric spewed from an ill-informed poster

I thought Nashville was on the black list with the number of large market and canadian fans as one of those, as you put it, "SHOVING HOCKEY DOWN THE THROATS OF PEOPLE WHO DON'T CARE" markets?

At a time, nobody grew up from Texas and wanted to play NHL hockey. Now you have a Hobey Baker finalist who shattered Ken Dryden's records. Where'd he come from? Oh that's right... his dad made him go to a Stars game he didn't even want to go to and fell in love with the sport.

Geographically, yes, Las Vegas is "in the middle of the desert", but what should that have on any bearing on Hockey? I think we've proven that a sheet of ice, if well air-conditioned, can exist literally anywhere.

Vegas is experiencing a very fast population growth. Now they're sitting at about 500,000 metro. That's comparable to a place like Nashville. By 2020, they're looking at a population of nearly 800,000.

That feels pretty 'right' to me.

 

[Ol' Dirty Chinaman*]

Nah, just baseless rhretoric spewed from an ill-informed poster

I thought Nashville was on the black list with the number of large market and canadian fans as one of those, as you put it, "SHOVING HOCKEY DOWN THE THROATS OF PEOPLE WHO DON'T CARE" markets?

At a time, nobody grew up from Texas and wanted to play NHL hockey. Now you have a Hobey Baker finalist who shattered Ken Dryden's records. Where'd he come from? Oh that's right... his dad made him go to a Stars game he didn't even want to go to and fell in love with the sport.

Geographically, yes, Las Vegas is "in the middle of the desert", but what should that have on any bearing on Hockey? I think we've proven that a sheet of ice, if well air-conditioned, can exist literally anywhere.

Vegas is experiencing a very fast population growth. Now they're sitting at about 500,000 metro. That's comparable to a place like Nashville. By 2020, they're looking at a population of nearly 800,000.

That feels pretty 'right' to me.

No. To believe that most southern teams are doing incredibly well financially and have exploding fan bases is just delusional. No to vegas, period. Hey, if we put one in Vegas, maybe we can have a desert conference when we add New Mexico and Mexico City to the league !

 

[bleedgreen]

Hartford cant really support the Wolfpack. Why do you think it would support an NHL team.

if a guy bought your team, said he was staying, then moved it....and it was replaced by a rivals minor league team in the same rink. would you buy in? i was back in home for christmas, and saw my first wolf pack game this year - like 8 years after the whale left. i didnt really want to go, and it freaked me out watching a minor league team play in my teams rink. im sure its great for the kids or different generations - but if you grew up with the whale its kinda tough to just become a rangers minor league team fan. how many hockey fans could? if a team you grew up hating put their minor league team in your teams rink, after the league lets your team leave - how much would you pay? not to mention if you wanted to watch the pros, the rangers or the bruins are an hour away.

 

[joepeps]

Vegas?

Vegas would have the money tho... and alot of ourist would watch the games.. you would have season ticket holder from rich casino people and mobsters.....

vegas would last...

i'd say seattle....

 

[mini-mite fan]

No. To believe that most southern teams are doing incredibly well financially and have exploding fan bases is just delusional. No to vegas, period. Hey, if we put one in Vegas, maybe we can have a desert conference when we add New Mexico and Mexico City to the league !

when we get that far though, watch out for the Jamaicans! They've got a good case of the "cool runnings" with the bobsled team, they won't let Mexico City cash in wit'out givin' it a shot demselves, mon! Sadly, it won't take long for the Equator conference to put up the same attendence numbers as the current Nascar conference.

I'm not oppossed to southern teams - but, come on! Expansion was done with the philosophy of throwing $#it against the wall and see who could stick (nice tactic there, Bettman) and too much at the expense of good clubs who needed a little help getting the fire stoked rather than the whole BBQ taken to someone elses backyard. The league needs to get back to an appropriate amount of teams based on total league revenues, with teams spread appropriately around the geographic areas. Quit wasting money in regions that you have to push the sport to get minimal support.

Vegas??? Are you guys mental? Let's get back on the ice first then talk about going into an area that wouldn't have a dedicated "home" fan base of decent size. The tourist crowd you'd expect to attract is gonna just want brawls - that's why boxing does so well there. Also, you can bet on ANYTHING sport or not in Vegas - hockey would just be bastardized worse with a home team there. It's sin-city, dudes, they don't want an organized game of skill...naughty earthly pleasures, baby. Also, how are we ever gonna get their stats if "what happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas"?

 

[WHARF1940]

if a guy bought your team, said he was staying, then moved it....and it was replaced by a rivals minor league team in the same rink. would you buy in? i was back in home for christmas, and saw my first wolf pack game this year - like 8 years after the whale left. i didnt really want to go, and it freaked me out watching a minor league team play in my teams rink. im sure its great for the kids or different generations - but if you grew up with the whale its kinda tough to just become a rangers minor league team fan. how many hockey fans could? if a team you grew up hating put their minor league team in your teams rink, after the league lets your team leave - how much would you pay? not to mention if you wanted to watch the pros, the rangers or the bruins are an hour away.

I know that I too said earlier in the thread that hartford is having a tough time with the wolfpack, your point is a good one as to why.....plus, it is MINOR hockey.....I must agree.
I don't really remember, do you know how the whale did before Karamanos?

 

[bleedgreen]

I know that I too said earlier in the thread that hartford is having a tough time with the wolfpack, your point is a good one as to why.....plus, it is MINOR hockey.....I must agree.
I don't really remember, do you know how the whale did before Karamanos?

very well. im 33. born and raised outside of hartford - i live in CO now though. they didnt do as bad as people tend to make out. especially for a team that played as bad as they did at times. i dont think they will ever get a team back, its not my point defendind them, my point is usually the reasons people give for them not getting one are off. the only reason it cant happen is because bettman doesnt want a team there. it would be a reversal of one of his decisions. hartford has been crossed off his list, and they arent going back.

 

[kdb209]

Vegas??? Are you guys mental? Let's get back on the ice first then talk about going into an area that wouldn't have a dedicated "home" fan base of decent size. The tourist crowd you'd expect to attract is gonna just want brawls - that's why boxing does so well there. Also, you can bet on ANYTHING sport or not in Vegas - hockey would just be bastardized worse with a home team there. It's sin-city, dudes, they don't want an organized game of skill...naughty earthly pleasures, baby. Also, how are we ever gonna get their stats if "what happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas"?

No "home fans". Vegas itself is over a half a million people and GROWING. It is the fastest growing city in the US and it's population has over doubled since 1990.

It has many of the demographic advantages that San Jose had - alot of disposible income and a populaion that is largely migrants fron other parts of the country. Not to mention the huge advantage of the tourist trade - and remember there is one thing that Vegas does very well, market itself.

Also remember that right now Vegas has no major professional sports teams (at least not since Tarkanian left UNLV) and they are very hungry to put their name on a team. I can see lots of similarities between Vegas today and Long Island in 1970 and San Jose in 1990 (I lived in both) in that regard.

 

[Ol' Dirty Chinaman*]

Vegas would have the money tho... and alot of ourist would watch the games.. you would have season ticket holder from rich casino people and mobsters.....

vegas would last...

i'd say seattle....

I dont' get this reasoning.

Tourists aren't going to Vegas to watch ice hockey. Most of the time, those tourists are coming from areas that already have hockey, so why would they go there and pay for a hockey game ?

 

[AM]

simple

I dont' get this reasoning.

Tourists aren't going to Vegas to watch ice hockey. Most of the time, those tourists are coming from areas that already have hockey, so why would they go there and pay for a hockey game ?

Fly down from to when the leafs are playing in Vegas....

Better seats for less!

 

[bleedgreen]

I dont' get this reasoning.

Tourists aren't going to Vegas to watch ice hockey. Most of the time, those tourists are coming from areas that already have hockey, so why would they go there and pay for a hockey game ?

i paid to watch a preseason game when i was in vegas. it was pretty full, at the mgm grand i believe. i dont doubt for a second it would be successfull. its the fastest growing area in the states - its a better location than many others that are talked about.

 

[futurcorerock]

No. To believe that most southern teams are doing incredibly well financially and have exploding fan bases is just delusional. No to vegas, period. Hey, if we put one in Vegas, maybe we can have a desert conference when we add New Mexico and Mexico City to the league !

Fair enough. Believe it or not if marketed properly, the New Mexico Oilers and the Mexico City Flames may draw equal or better than their former cities.

I'd even wager to say the Houston Canucks will do the best of the three, though

The point about Vegas is the city's population is growing at a staggering rate. The Vegas team would have no problem filling their venue with season ticket holders. Tourism is just another added incentive, not their sole revenue.

Also, they've had games there before which were successes.