Frolov or Zherdev

[Samkow]

Bottom line, Frolov is a blue chip 2nd liner. Guaranteed 60-70 pts. Zherdev is a potential 1st line 80 pointer playing with Nash but he's a bigger risk. It all depends on if you want to roll the dice or not.

I think saying Frolov is going to get 60-70 Points is a little overkill. Most 1st Liners in the NHL dont get 60-70 Points, much less 2nd Liners.

 

[MOOSE55]

I think saying Frolov is going to get 60-70 Points is a little overkill. Most 1st Liners in the NHL dont get 60-70 Points, much less 2nd Liners.

I bet you think Zherdev is a 80+ player though?

 

[Samkow]

I bet you think Zherdev is a 80+ player though?

Heh, Im a little biased, but assuming him and Nash stay healthy, that's reasonable.

Its kinda hard to perdict the future.

Edit:I also see him having Todd Bertuzzi +/- Levels of around +3 or +4.

 

[punchy1]

Biased? No mate, not at all.....

 

[MOOSE55]

I think saying Frolov is going to get 60-70 Points is a little overkill. Most 1st Liners in the NHL dont get 60-70 Points, much less 2nd Liners.

He's a 2nd liner already......Alot of people think he's goin to be a 1st liner....and the only time 60-70 points is a stretch for a 1st-liner is if they play for a team like Columbus!

 

[Samkow]

He's a 2nd liner already......Alot of people think he's goin to be a 1st liner....and the only time 60-70 points is a stretch for a 1st-liner is if they play for a team like Columbus!

Um dude, I didnt mean in this year, or anytime in the near-future for what it's worth. Columbus will have a pretty deep offense in 5 Years with Nash, Zherdev, Fritiche, and probobly another top 5 Pick(most likley a forward).

 

[Frolov]

What was said about Kovalchuk I wonder? I know some Canadians did not like his fist pumping but that was just sour grapes. What else?

The same cocky "I'm the best" attitude that Kovalchuk has.

I like that in a player.

 

[Frolov]

Bottom line, Frolov is a blue chip 2nd liner. Guaranteed 60-70 pts. Zherdev is a potential 1st line 80 pointer playing with Nash but he's a bigger risk. It all depends on if you want to roll the dice or not.

Bottom line 2nd liner? Says who? Watch Frolov play. Ask Leafs fans (who saw Frolov dominate a game) if they think Frolov will be a 2nd liner or 1st liner.


You also forget that along with the guaranteed 70 points Frolov will bring his defensive game too. Future selkie finalist.

Why is Lehtinen known as the Stars MVP rather then Modano or Geurin? His two-way game, thats why.

 

[dink182]

Yeah, I've seen Frolov play plenty. Thankfully he's not trying those stupid wraparounds as much. Let's face it. If Deadmarsh and Allison were healthy, Frolov's ice time would be cut and he wouldn't be putting up as many points as he is now. He's a good 2-way player, but that doesn't mean he's a 1st liner. In fact, his 2-way play has 2nd line winger stamped all over him. If he was an explosive scoring star, that would make him a 1st line winger. But he's not explosive and dynamic like a 1st line winger should be.

 

[Siberian]

The same cocky "I'm the best" attitude that Kovalchuk has.

I like that in a player.

You got it completely wrong. Zherdev cockiness is in the locker room. He is a floater on ice. Kovalchuck has absolutely different attitude. You got it all wrong!

 

[Enoch]

Bottom line 2nd liner? Says who? Watch Frolov play. Ask Leafs fans (who saw Frolov dominate a game) if they think Frolov will be a 2nd liner or 1st liner.


You also forget that along with the guaranteed 70 points Frolov will bring his defensive game too. Future selkie finalist.

Why is Lehtinen known as the Stars MVP rather then Modano or Geurin? His two-way game, thats why.

I think the best possible outcome for Frolov's development would be like Jere Lehtinen. More than capable 1st liner that can put up 30g/65pts, while still being a Selke finalist year after year.

The defensive skills are a wash in this debate, practically, as they are not measurable in statistics (I guess +/- might work, but if your on a bad team your going to be in the minus regardless of your defensive abilities). Thus the person with the higher point total will most likely be the better fantasy pick, which is what this debate is about.

 

[punchy1]

Thanks dink! Your a bloody genius you are. I mean, you not only know what Frolov is off to now but what he will be in two three four and even six or seven years. What are todays lotto numbers mate? I mean, if you can see the future so well on what Frolov will become when he has done nothing but improve his game again this year (more than can be said about ALL but three of his class mates) and is now starting to show signs of being able to absolutely dominate a game (has done so three times this season and never thought he would be good enough to do that) then you must have other gifts as well. I mean for you to say that he is only capable of what you say he will be then you must be a bloody great phsychic.

You don't bloody know how good he will be mate, you can only guess and based on what he has done so far you don't seem to have a valid point. I don't see him being the best player in the league or anything like that but the truth is that he is a young player who keeps improving and developing his already solid game and is even showing that on some nights he can be the best player on the ice for both teams. That is a pretty big thing when you consider who he was facing in those games. So, you don't know what you are talking about mate as far as your limiting what he is capable of because he has yet to show anyone what that might be and it will take another couple of years until his game is at the level that it can be. He is still learning the NHL game and he keeps getting better and better and has shown no signs of leveling off yet. You said its good that he has stopped that wrap around move and that just shows my point mate. He found one part of his game that worked (and still does) and then began developing the rest and is still doing so.

Like I said, he doesn't look like a player who will be one of the top snipers in the league but then, the top snipers don't look like they will ever have the same balanced scoring and defencive game that Frolov has either. Who knows what will happen but I can say one thing with factual certainty and that is that Frolov is a great young player who plays both ends of the ice and just keeps getting better all of the time.

Your point about his ice time is silly mate. Of course it takes ice time to learn the game. The same can be said about Modano,Gretzky and Howe. IF they hadn't recieved good ice time who knows what would have happened to them lot. So, you are just off on this one mate.

 

[Siberian]

Yeah, I've seen Frolov play plenty. Thankfully he's not trying those stupid wraparounds as much. Let's face it. If Deadmarsh and Allison were healthy, Frolov's ice time would be cut and he wouldn't be putting up as many points as he is now. He's a good 2-way player, but that doesn't mean he's a 1st liner. In fact, his 2-way play has 2nd line winger stamped all over him. If he was an explosive scoring star, that would make him a 1st line winger. But he's not explosive and dynamic like a 1st line winger should be.

If a grandmother had a penis she was a grandfather. Look. Allison and Deadmarsh are not playing. You don't even know yet if they will ever play again. Frolov can play hockey against the best in NHL. The teams are different, they different star potential and to mark someone first-liner or second liner is not right. Frolov might be second liner in a team deep on talent, but he also can be firstliner on a crappy team (I won't say the name).

Put Zherdev against the best and he will be -10 in 5 games.

 

[punchy1]

Oh, and in the games I saw Zherdev play I didn't see him as a floater at all. He was moving allot and looking to be open and still fill his lane on D. I mean, the kid was playing in his firts NHL games so you can't say that he is a floater here. Whatever he did before the NHL almost doesn't matter. He has proven he deserves his shot at the NHL and in his short time that he can score here. That is all you can ask from any player and with that, he didn't look like a floater or like a player with an attitude problem either. You have to think that as a young player new to the NHL on a team that isn't chock full of Russians that he isn't going to try to be the same "cocky" young man in the locker room that you might say he was at home. The team has a captain and a coach and they would just ship him off if he were a problem as a rook. Now, three years from now if he were to keep scoring then, his attitude, if it were a problem would be a different story but for now, I don't see it.

 

[nikolai19]

I would say that Alex Frolov has a chance to be a Jere Lehtinen type of player, i.e. great two way forward that can put up 60 points a year. That may be a bit optimistic but he works so hard on the defensive end it only makes him that much better. He has stopped the wrap around and is shooting more, which I'm sure that the coaching staff has throttled him on.

Seeing Cammalleri also reminds me of a young Cliff Ronning or better yet, another Mike Comrie. So if the Kings have got a future Jere Lehtinen and a Mike Comrie- type of players in their lineup, that measures up to good things in LA.

I agree, Punch, Frolov isn't going to score 40 goals in this league. He may get 30. But if he can be 25-30 goals and 40 assists and a Selke candidate for years to come, then his value to LA takes care of itself.

Honestly, and I might get flamed for this, but watching these kids play, Cammy, Brown, Frolov, and Gleason so far this year doesn't make me miss Allison and Deadmarsh all that much. Granted I would love to get them back, however, I am more proud of management that they have finally learned to draft correctly and let the kids play. Only if Aulin was healthy...

 

[Siberian]

Oh, and in the games I saw Zherdev play I didn't see him as a floater at all. He was moving allot and looking to be open and still fill his lane on D. I mean, the kid was playing in his firts NHL games so you can't say that he is a floater here. Whatever he did before the NHL almost doesn't matter. He has proven he deserves his shot at the NHL and in his short time that he can score here. That is all you can ask from any player and with that, he didn't look like a floater or like a player with an attitude problem either. You have to think that as a young player new to the NHL on a team that isn't chock full of Russians that he isn't going to try to be the same "cocky" young man in the locker room that you might say he was at home. The team has a captain and a coach and they would just ship him off if he were a problem as a rook. Now, three years from now if he were to keep scoring then, his attitude, if it were a problem would be a different story but for now, I don't see it.

It's all about output. It is like work in the shop for guys making 10 bucks an hour. Absolutely similar approach. Some work their butts off and others tend to float once in a while while they think nobody is seeing. Zherdev was floating like there is no tomorrow, lazy in defense, uninterested. But instead of learning for some more time how to overcome difficulties and obstacles in his life he again showed up like first class floater, he decided to run. Let it be. This just shows his character and what kind of person he is. Unfortunately, players of this brand don't achieve anything in this sport.

 

[MOOSE55]

Um dude, I didnt mean in this year, or anytime in the near-future for what it's worth. Columbus will have a pretty deep offense in 5 Years with Nash, Zherdev, Fritiche, and probobly another top 5 Pick(most likley a forward).

In case you missed the latest HF-fox rankings(LA #1), LA isn't exactly dead on forwards either-Cammy,Aulin,Brown,Pushkarov,Tambellini,Murray,Boyle...

 

[MOOSE55]

Yeah, I've seen Frolov play plenty. Thankfully he's not trying those stupid wraparounds as much. Let's face it. If Deadmarsh and Allison were healthy, Frolov's ice time would be cut and he wouldn't be putting up as many points as he is now. He's a good 2-way player, but that doesn't mean he's a 1st liner. In fact, his 2-way play has 2nd line winger stamped all over him. If he was an explosive scoring star, that would make him a 1st line winger. But he's not explosive and dynamic like a 1st line winger should be.

What a load of crap that is, if Allison and Deader were playing, Frolov's point total would increase, cuz guess who else would be on that line....FROLOV....and he'd be playing with real top 6ers(not Klatt, Belenger). Ask the Toronto and Washington fans who watched the games against the Kings how "dynamic" Frolov is.

 

[MOOSE55]

I would say that Alex Frolov has a chance to be a Jere Lehtinen type of player, i.e. great two way forward that can put up 60 points a year. That may be a bit optimistic but he works so hard on the defensive end it only makes him that much better. He has stopped the wrap around and is shooting more, which I'm sure that the coaching staff has throttled him on.

Seeing Cammalleri also reminds me of a young Cliff Ronning or better yet, another Mike Comrie. So if the Kings have got a future Jere Lehtinen and a Mike Comrie- type of players in their lineup, that measures up to good things in LA.

I agree, Punch, Frolov isn't going to score 40 goals in this league. He may get 30. But if he can be 25-30 goals and 40 assists and a Selke candidate for years to come, then his value to LA takes care of itself.

Honestly, and I might get flamed for this, but watching these kids play, Cammy, Brown, Frolov, and Gleason so far this year doesn't make me miss Allison and Deadmarsh all that much. Granted I would love to get them back, however, I am more proud of management that they have finally learned to draft correctly and let the kids play. Only if Aulin was healthy...

The only thing I don't agree with you on is Frolov's future point total......I mean right now he's almost on pace for 60 points, and you know the kind of talent Frolov has been playing with....I think with skilled linemates, i.e. Palffy, he's capible of much more then 60 points.

 

[Siberian]

I would say that Alex Frolov has a chance to be a Jere Lehtinen type of player, i.e. great two way forward that can put up 60 points a year. That may be a bit optimistic but he works so hard on the defensive end it only makes him that much better. He has stopped the wrap around and is shooting more, which I'm sure that the coaching staff has throttled him on.

Seeing Cammalleri also reminds me of a young Cliff Ronning or better yet, another Mike Comrie. So if the Kings have got a future Jere Lehtinen and a Mike Comrie- type of players in their lineup, that measures up to good things in LA.

I agree, Punch, Frolov isn't going to score 40 goals in this league. He may get 30. But if he can be 25-30 goals and 40 assists and a Selke candidate for years to come, then his value to LA takes care of itself.

Honestly, and I might get flamed for this, but watching these kids play, Cammy, Brown, Frolov, and Gleason so far this year doesn't make me miss Allison and Deadmarsh all that much. Granted I would love to get them back, however, I am more proud of management that they have finally learned to draft correctly and let the kids play. Only if Aulin was healthy...

I wonder who is going to score 40 goals at all with the way the scoring declined. Let's put it this way 40 goals will be a mark for superstars unless the league will change the game. Perhaps it will be 2-3 players in the whole league! But again it doesn't say a lot about the player himself. Bure scored a lot but did not want to play any defense.

 

[Enoch]

I wonder who is going to score 40 goals at all with the way the scoring declined. Let's put it this way 40 goals will be a mark for superstars unless the league will change the game. Perhaps it will be 2-3 players in the whole league! But again it doesn't say a lot about the player himself. Bure scored a lot but did not want to play any defense.

but he was still a superstar....

 

[Siberian]

but he was still a superstar....

Don't worry, I can guarantee you Zherdev is not gonna be scoring that many, though he might have similar attitude to defense)))))

 

[Enoch]

Don't worry, I can guarantee you Zherdev is not gonna be scoring that many, though he might have similar attitude to defense)))))

Thanks for the heads up call. If only Columbus's scouts could have known what you do at the draft last year, then maybe they could have picked somone up other than a minor leaguer.

 

[Siberian]

Thanks for the heads up call. If only Columbus's scouts could have known what you do at the draft last year, then maybe they could have picked somone up other than a minor leaguer.

Hey, who needed me advice got it. I got a phone call from Pittsburgh Penguins people just befor the draft, they asked me what I thought about Zherdev I said forget about him, get Fleury he is the real deal! You know the rest of the story.

 

[JF Omalycat]

Class act 45, way to show how your better than Siberian. Solid mess that post is.

I've never claimed to be classy.
But unlike Siberian, I generally go a long way towards showing respect, courtesy, and a willingness to be objective to what other members post.
While knowlegable (usually) his attitude can be a little abrasive.
Cheers, mate!