Sportsnet: Friedman: TOR could take swing for 1 Year of Panarin

TML1967

Registered User
Jul 20, 2010
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When is the deadline for Panarin? Edit: Sep 13. Where he will end up is of great interest to me (recently Boston is interested too).

Whether that’s with Toronto or San Jose.

Can you imagine waking up tomorrow and this thread is on fire because Dubas made another blockbuster deal for Panarin?

We would be heavy favourites to win the Cup.

It would be his first big trade to be fair.

Although having Tavares Matthews Nylander Marner and Panarin is just nutty.

I can hardly imagine trying to shut down that PP. Or that top 6 .
**Shivers**

Though the cost would probably either decimate our depth long term or cost us so many high picks it hurts us allot in the long run (assuming we can't get him to sign long term)
 

93LEAFS

Registered User
Nov 7, 2009
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Panarin - Matthews - Nylander
Marleau - Tavares - Marner
Hyman - Kadri - Brown
Johnsson - Lindholm - Kapanen
Ennis/Leivo
Babs isn't going to run a line that is pure skill like your first line. He'll break them into pairings of one of our centers (Matthews, JT, Kadri), and one of our skill wingers (Panarin, Nylander, Marner), and then grit/forechecking (Hyman, Marleau, Brown/Kapanen). Due to position, Kapanen or Brown will be with Panarin, as they are the RWers (although Hyman can shift sides, he's a right shot).
 
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Critical13

Fear is the mind-killer.
Feb 25, 2017
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Babs isn't going to run a line that is pure skill like your first line. He'll break them into pairings of one of our centers (Matthews, JT, Kadri), and one of our skill wingers (Panarin, Nylander, Marner), and then grit/forechecking (Hyman, Marleau, Brown/Kapanen). Due to position, Kapanen or Brown will be with Panarin, as they are the RWers (although Hyman can shift sides, he's a right shot).

I just don't think you can do that if they land Panarin.

You need Panarin, Matthews, Nylander, Tavares and Marner getting top minutees every night. You sub one of them out of your top 6 and suddenly you have two of Marleau/Hyman/Kapanen/Johnsson getting more minutes than one of those top 5 guys. Which is ridiculous.
 
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93LEAFS

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I just don't think you can do that if they land Panarin.

You need Panarin, Matthews, Nylander, Tavares and Marner getting top minutees every night. You sub one of them out of your top 6 and suddenly you have two of Marleau/Hyman/Kapanen/Johnsson getting more minutes than one of those top 5 guys. Which is ridiculous.
We had Hyman and Komarov getting more minutes than Marner, Nylander and JVR at many points last year. Babs will stick to his system, its pretty clear how he wants the team constructed. If he has a line that is all skill, then he will tend to shelter it heavily, which gets that line less minutes, like he did with JVR-Bozak-Marner.
 

Critical13

Fear is the mind-killer.
Feb 25, 2017
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We had Hyman and Komarov getting more minutes than Marner, Nylander and JVR at many points last year. Babs will stick to his system, its pretty clear how he wants the team constructed. If he has a line that is all skill, then he will tend to shelter it heavily, which gets that line less minutes, like he did with JVR-Bozak-Marner.

I don't think all skill is a good term for Panarin-Matthews-Nylander. None of those guys are liabilities.

Also, I would be surprised if we say Marner or Nylander playing 7th or 8th most minutes again this year for forwards. I see them both sitting happily in the 3-5 range 5v5. We will need that if we want to win the division.
 
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93LEAFS

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I don't think all skill is a good term for Panarin-Matthews-Nylander. None of those guys are liabilities.

Also, I would be surprised if we say Marner or Nylander playing 7th or 8th most minutes again this year for forwards. I see them both sitting happily in the 3-5 range 5v5. We will need that if we want to win the division.
Panarin has always been extremely sheltered zone-start wise, especially in Chicago. I just don't see Babs heavily altering the formula he has used most of his career. He likes a grunt/grinder on every line, and if he doesn't have that, he will tend to shelter the line which leads to less minutes anyway.
 

Critical13

Fear is the mind-killer.
Feb 25, 2017
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Sitting at a desk.
Panarin has always been extremely sheltered zone-start wise, especially in Chicago. I just don't see Babs heavily altering the formula he has used most of his career. He likes a grunt/grinder on every line, and if he doesn't have that, he will tend to shelter the line which leads to less minutes anyway.

Has he been sheltered, or has he been playing with Kane and his coach is putting them out there to score goals?

OZS has it's flaws.
 

93LEAFS

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Has he been sheltered, or has he been playing with Kane and his coach is putting them out there to score goals?

OZS has it's flaws.
Well, that why I said Zone-start wise, he still faced relatively high level of comp by QOC metrics. But, when Qunneville is using you 80% to 20% D-zone starts in the offensive zone at 5v5, which he did one year that is extreme usage by NHL standards.
 

Critical13

Fear is the mind-killer.
Feb 25, 2017
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Sitting at a desk.
Well, that why I said Zone-start wise, he still faced relatively high level of comp by QOC metrics. But, when Qunneville is using you 80% to 20% D-zone starts in the offensive zone at 5v5, which he did one year that is extreme usage by NHL standards.

Brad Marchand was only used 4% more in the defensive zone last year, and Marchand is considered an elite two way winger.

Skilled players on good teams will get a lot of OZS.

Either way, I don't think we will land him, so we won't get the chance to see who's right :'(
 

93LEAFS

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Nov 7, 2009
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Brad Marchand was only used 4% more in the defensive zone last year, and Marchand is considered an elite two way winger.

Skilled players on good teams will get a lot of OZS.

Either way, I don't think we will land him, so we won't get the chance to see who's right :'(
That was the most time he's had O-zone starts in his career. Historically, Marchard splits are 52-48. But, Panarin's use in Chicago was extreme by OZS standards. Only star players I can think of who got similar usage historically was the Sedins and Patrick Kane. And, even then Kane never broke the 70% OZS% in his career. This year Panarin saw more balanced usage but it was still heavy Ozone starts.

But, either way, I agree with your final point.

edit: Just to put it in perspective. I searched over 200 games played since 2010/2011, with over 69.9% Offensive zone start percentage, and Panarin was the only person who qualified. I narrowed it down to 64.9, and the only people who qualified were Panarin, Ribiero, Sedin, P. Kane, H. Sedin and Tarasenko.

Player Advanced Stats Finder | Hockey-Reference.com
 
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Willchel Marlynder

(philer bozel)
Jul 15, 2010
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We had Hyman and Komarov getting more minutes than Marner, Nylander and JVR at many points last year. Babs will stick to his system, its pretty clear how he wants the team constructed. If he has a line that is all skill, then he will tend to shelter it heavily, which gets that line less minutes, like he did with JVR-Bozak-Marner.

A JVR-Bozak-Marner should not be compared to a Panarin-Matthews Nylander or a Marleau-JT-Marner line. Both are better offensively and defensively. The Kadri line handles other teams first line matchups, what teams second line is better than any of those two lines where they would need to be sheltered? There would be no such need to shelter a line. Even on the Road I'd put those lines against any teams line in the NHL. Bergy isn't stopping a Matthews line with Panarin on it. And even if he did, The JT line eats up the rest of their team.
 
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93LEAFS

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A JVR-Bozak-Marner should not be compared to a Panarin-Matthews Nylander or a Marleau-JT-Marner line. Both are better offensively and defensively. The Kadri line handles other teams first line matchups, what teams second line is better than any of those two lines where they would need to be sheltered? There would be no such need to shelter a line. Even on the Road I'd put those lines against any teams line in the NHL. Bergy isn't stopping a Matthews line with Panarin on it. And even if he did, The JT line eats up the rest of their team.
Maybe you are right, but Babcock doesn't historically coach like that. He seems to have a pretty set way on how he wants line-ups constructed. Even with team Canada he rolls out line-ups like that. I'm not saying what I think would or wouldn't work, what I am saying his how Babcock has historically set his line-ups up, and what he is most likely to do.
 

Le Cobra

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Nov 11, 2015
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A JVR-Bozak-Marner should not be compared to a Panarin-Matthews Nylander or a Marleau-JT-Marner line. Both are better offensively and defensively. The Kadri line handles other teams first line matchups, what teams second line is better than any of those two lines where they would need to be sheltered? There would be no such need to shelter a line. Even on the Road I'd put those lines against any teams line in the NHL. Bergy isn't stopping a Matthews line with Panarin on it. And even if he did, The JT line eats up the rest of their team.

Who is Bergy? Pittsburgh? Or Forsberg?
 

GoldenGOOSE

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Jan 14, 2018
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Babcock cannot handle a top player like this. I think Babcock will bumble and fumble this great new lineup, he is the most overhyped, overpaid good in the history of the NHL. You ever hear Don Cherry talking about how good Babcock is?

No... Because, its the a huge Shanahan blunder. But they will just gently squeeze him out and bring in Sheldon Keefe... Hopefully it happens early this year, but because Shanahan doesn't want the egg on his face, won't happen too early.
 

Wafflewhipper

Registered User
Jan 18, 2014
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Babcock cannot handle a top player like this. I think Babcock will bumble and fumble this great new lineup, he is the most overhyped, overpaid good in the history of the NHL. You ever hear Don Cherry talking about how good Babcock is?

No... Because, its the a huge Shanahan blunder. But they will just gently squeeze him out and bring in Sheldon Keefe... Hopefully it happens early this year, but because Shanahan doesn't want the egg on his face, won't happen too early.

Stop posting buzzed lol
 

TML1967

Registered User
Jul 20, 2010
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Hyman Tavares Marner
Marleau Matthews Nylander
Panarin Kadri Kapanen (imagine Panarin going up against 3rd lines and a 3rd pairing... WOOF)
 
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Mintoregano

Registered User
Oct 4, 2017
19
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It all depends on the cost, if it is similar to the mcdonagh trade and was something like Sandin + Johnsson and a first I would hope that they pull the trigger. Adding a guy like Panarin to this group would make a much bigger impact then any defenseman rumored to be available (save Karlsson). With the excess cap space we have this year, we need to take advantage of it in the best possible way because who knows when the next time will be when we have space to add a rental star after this year.
 
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stickty111

Registered User
Jan 23, 2017
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Babcock cannot handle a top player like this. I think Babcock will bumble and fumble this great new lineup, he is the most overhyped, overpaid good in the history of the NHL. You ever hear Don Cherry talking about how good Babcock is?

No... Because, its the a huge Shanahan blunder. But they will just gently squeeze him out and bring in Sheldon Keefe... Hopefully it happens early this year, but because Shanahan doesn't want the egg on his face, won't happen too early.
Keep saying this, you look even more wrong
 

Wafflewhipper

Registered User
Jan 18, 2014
14,114
5,694
Evaluate what? He has been here for 4 years.

The team defense! Its probably going to be improved enough that all these crazy trade suggestions won't hold water. I think we are going to ge a better possession team this year to make a difference defensively and to improving the shots against. We don't likely beed defense and definitely don't need Panarin and the losses of players it would bring to get him.
 

Gary Nylund

Registered User
Oct 10, 2013
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Babcock cannot handle a top player like this. I think Babcock will bumble and fumble this great new lineup, he is the most overhyped, overpaid good in the history of the NHL. You ever hear Don Cherry talking about how good Babcock is?

No... Because, its the a huge Shanahan blunder. But they will just gently squeeze him out and bring in Sheldon Keefe... Hopefully it happens early this year, but because Shanahan doesn't want the egg on his face, won't happen too early.

Babcock can't handle top players and the proof is Don Cherry.

Amazing post! :rolleyes:
 

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