Discussion in 'Montreal Canadiens' started by Habsfan18, Jun 7, 2018.
Or he might just be oblivious to whatever crap is being pulled.
I expect that the waiver wire might be where Hoffman ends up if it is possible or maybe he is potentially traded for some player deemed undesirable by the rest of the league, say a Karl Alzner type.
I get why the Habs traded away Roy even though I think it was a moronic decision, but the decision to trade away Keane in that same deal was without any sane reasoning. And the Avs young players at that time often cited Keane as the guy who drove them forward and showed them how a champion should handle himself, and I believe PL's decision to let him go came to bite them in the ass as he was a thorn in their side later on playing for Dallas.
Another huge part of that rivalry was Pepe, who I blame for waking up the sleeping giant. Sure he did a lot of good things for the Avs, but before he rearranged Draper's face that Wings team was a listless bunch of underachievers when the going got tough, but the hatred towards Pepe, later on, fueled them and made them bond as Bowman used it to rally the team around it. Had that not happened I firmly believe they would remain a sleeping lion.
By the way, the Avs rivalry with Wings is another reason I detest Leafs fans, as due to their absolutely vile behavior towards Murphy they effectively ran him out of the town into the outstretched arms of the Wings who got a top pairing D and a stabilizing force - Lidas often spoke how much he helped him - for their backend for nothing. had they treaded him better, he would never leave probably and the Red Wings would've been far weaker for it. Come to think of it, has it been an NHL team that benefited more from other team's stupidity as much as the 90s Red Wings who got both Murphy and Chelios for peanuts, one because he was run out of town, the other because his owner traded him to a team he hated out of spite? They essentialy got two hall of famers thanks to other people's stupidity.
No one will trade for Hoffman now, especially not the team that knows first hand how big of a deterrent are toxic characters (Iginla, Beauchemin, Coulbourne, Duchene) in the lockerroom.
Ottawa should try all in their power to get that pick back, including trading Stone for it. As I see it, that locker room is so broken there is no fixing it by a move or two, they need to go full scorched earth and enter a full rebuild. Can you imagine EK, Duchene, Stone etc sticking there when they become UFAs in a year? They should liquidate their assets and move into a full-blown rebuild, they won't be competitive either way when EK leaves.
Troubles with Hoffman/Karlsson is good for our trade value with Patch. If JVR and Neal re-sign, it makes it even more better. Less proven goal scoring on the market, the better. NHL GM's will fight over acquiring Patch and raises the value a bit.
Yes, Iginla and Beauchemin. Those two were cancerous to the team and clashed with the young guys on the team. They also dogged it on the ice at all times. What made it even more obvious was how Iginla played when he got to LA, and there's a reason Joe basically just gave him away and why Beauchemin was bought out.
I agree. Scorch earth it. They get a good pick this year. Next 2 years, the top 10 is looking really good (early for 2020, but it's still looking good).
They need to rebuild & they can't do that while Colorado holds their 1st.
There's 3 really bad contracts they want to get rid of, 2 of them will be really tough: Ryan (throw him in a Karlsson trade with Vegas & stop asking for Cody Glass especially with Ryan attached it. Vegas' offer was good).
Gaborik (still has 3 years left). They should just buy him out. It would be cheaper than actually paying him his full salary over the next 3 years.
McArthur who's LTIR. There are a couple of teams that are actually going to struggle to reach the cap floor this year, especially if cap goes to $82m, which should cause a floor of $62.4m.
No dressing room problems since he's retired for medical reasons: Colorado, Arizona, Vancouver, NYI (if they don't re-sign Tavares). See if you can get rid of that contract for cheap, like say a mid-round pick. If not see if you can throw it in a Stone trade.
I'm not sure the Sens have the leadership in management to do any of this.
I wonder if this was known in NHL circles too. It would explain MB's character/attitude comments at the end of the season. Or, maybe our team's attitude just sucked. Just speculation.
WHY THERE HASN'T BEEN A TRADE YET.
I WANT A TRADE BEFORE NEXT WEEK
They both sucked after signing with Colorado and weren't happy with their playing times and roles. Beauchemin publically complained about it. I don't think Iginla did, but he let people know behind the scenes. Both were eventually let go since Colorado was awful anyway & they weren't helping.
Why not trade Karlsson to Colorado for your first back and Girard?
Pretty sure JVR is going to UFA, so that won't help in a Pacioretty trade since Montreal will want to trade him at the draft.
We'll see if Vegas re-signs Neal.
Well, a competent management would definitely buy out Gaborik, but while they save some money buying him out they need to replace him on the roster, I'm not sure how much net gain do they receive by doing so. Ryan is a tough call, as he destroys a lot of value a team trading for EK will be willing to give them. If he is rotten in the locker room do what the Avs did with JC, politely and without much fuss distance yourself from him.
Nothing is a good thing when you remove all of the good.
I would rather rebuild and fail than continue the course of failing that's never worked and continue just because the alternative sounds difficult.
Unless Ottawa adds a **** ton there's no way Colorado gives them back that pick for Hoffman, the pick is most likely a top 5 next year in a year stacked with elite young centers. I'm quite sure that if Ottawa offers their 4th pick overall straight up for their pick next year, Colorado would decline, even if they add Hoffman at this point which has negative value.
I don't think Avs have any intention in trading a huge collection of assets for one year of EK. If he wants to sign there, there will be plenty of $ available in a years time. Plus I see no way in which they give up either of Zadorov or Girard as those two are the only players with top 4 upsides on the left side of D.
If Ottawa surrenders their 4ov to Colorado in this year's draft, it fulfills the conditions of the original trade. Colorado doesn't have a choice in the matter.
Once a team loses out on Koch sweeps too they will need to shore up
I'm not too sure myself. Hard to say what the Leafs do but losing JVR's production turns that team into a 2 line team instead of a 3 line team. I can see them taking a step back but hard to predict what moves they make this summer. No idea about Neal.
It's funny you say this. I remember arguing for rebuilding many moons ago and the teams in question then were Washington, Pittsburgh, LA and Chicago. They were all mocked just as Buffalo and Edmonton are now. And all have gone on to win cups (for years people needled me about Washington but they can't even do that anymore).
There's no doubt the landscape's a little different with the lottery and not every bottomfeeder will go onto win. In fact most teams won't win cups no matter what they do as the league is getting bigger and bigger. But I think it is safe to say that most cup winning teams will continue to be rebuilds.
It's kind of like getting the hot girl to go to the prom with you. She's going to go with somebody. And just because you ask it doesn't mean she'll go with you. But if you don't ask, she almost definitely won't.
And then there's always the case of incompetent mgmt. Some teams can have a good young core that includes a Hart/Vezina winner to go along with a Norris winner and they can still screw it up. There's no relief from stupidity and mismanagement. You can have all the high picks you want but if you say... play them in the wrong position and misuse them.... then they won't become the player they might've been.
The dilemma that most teams on the cusp of winning have is that in order to fill the one remaining hole they often have to create a hole somewhere else. What the Habs did in 95 was to gift the Avs the Cup by not forcing them to create a hole in order to fill the one hole they needed to fill. A smarter team than the Habs would have required a real core piece (a Sakic or a Forsberg) in order to part with Roy. But as it turned out, the Habs were happy to take the Avs' surplus depth off their hands instead. They went for quantity instead of quality. But when you get mediocre assets they are what they are and getting more of them doesn't even things out. All you wind up with is more mediocrity.
3 mediocre players does not equal one Hall of Fame caliber player. 3 mediocre players equals mediocrity to the 3rd power.
I remember reading a Jack Todd column back in the early 2000's about how the Habs crippled themselves not only by trading good players like Roy for mediocre players like Thibault and Rucinsky, but also by adding good players as "throw-in's" on many of these lopsided deals. Keane was a very useful player who was tossed into the Roy deal almost as an afterthought. Darcy Tucker was a throw-in on a deal with Tampa which sent Stephane Richer to the Bolts for Igor Ulanov, Patrick Poulin and Mick Vukota. How would the fortunes of the Habs have been different had they retained both Tucker and Keane?
Honestly? Not much. Those were bad Hab teams.
But we definitely could've got a hell of a lot more value by trading those guys later on in separate deals.
Well Ottawa should. It's a gamble but one I'd bet that they should take. Could they trade down and then give it up as a first? That would cause some controversy
Loved Keane! Like a Gally who could fight (and lead)
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