GDT: Freight Train or Train Wreck: PHL @ CAR

[Navin R Slavin]

The funny thing is, we aren’t even having this conversation (even if we should be) if Jordan’s OT Shot didn’t get picked out of mid air by two different Flyers.

No. We'd be having it after the next game instead.

 

[Navin R Slavin]

I'm tired of guessing why the team is bad. My job is to pay money and try to be entertained. I have done my best to hold up my end of the bargain, you dick holes. Now go f***ing fix it.

 

[Joe McGrath]

No. We'd be having it after the next game instead.

Oh absolutely. Actually we’d probably be having it tomorrow after the endorphins wore off.

 

[NotOpie]

Zykov looks to be terrible at even strength and I question if he can skate well enough to play in the NHL. Would Wallmark be any better than Ryan or Rask or Lindholm? When I've seen him he looks like a poor man's Rask to me. Foegele could probably help on the 4th line, but is that going to have much, if any impact on the outcome?

I wouldn't have a problem with calling some of those guys up from the AHL, just don't see it as a big deal that they aren't. When your "best" players aren't producing, bringing up much lesser players doesn't move the needle much.

I'm going to respectfully disagree here....while I know that AHL performance metrics are not a true indicator of NHL performance metrics (Chris Terry says hello), I believe all 3 of Zykov, Wallmark, and/or Foegele would markedly contribute. Zykov has 23 goals, 10 of which are even strength. Only 3 players on the Canes roster have as many or more even strength goals. I also believe you're selling Wallmark's abilities short. He's at least as good and, from what I've seen, a better skater than Rask and is a better defender than Ryan. He's also a noted distributor. We both agree that Foegele probably can contribute on the 4th line, certainly as a more offensively dangerous option. Personally a few more goals from that 4th line would absolutely make a difference considering our overall lack of scoring and the closeness of many of these recent games.

I love Nordstrom's effort, but if I see him miss another grade "a" chance....I don't think I have to finish that sentence, cause after I wrote it I realized I could substitute 10 other names for Nordy's.

I think you are over estimating the importance of it. If they can't be motivated by being in a playoff hunt and needing to win these games, then I don't think that will do the trick either. Like I said, I don't have a problem with them calling some guys up. Heck, I'd like to see Foegele in particular be called up so would be all for it. just think people are overestimating the impact it would have. I guess maybe it falls into the bucket of "just try something"

Might it be motivating? Perhaps, and there would be a benefit to that. But frankly, I've come to the conclusion that there are other guys that are better than a handful of Canes roster players....and some of those guys are just down I85 in Charlotte. I believe that Wallmark has more to contribute than Jooris. I believe that Foegele has more to give than PDG. And I'd be willing to sit Ryan, juggle the line up to put him in the top 9, and see what Zykov could bring for a half-dozen games.

So, to me, it's less about motivation, and more about trying some guys who just might be better....of course, the coaches are closer to the situation and better personnel evaluators, but right now, it is totally acceptable to question their current decision-making and capabilities.

Of course, any style of leadership wears thin when things are going the wrong way. The best coaches in hockey get fired regularly. Wins are the only job performance metric.

What a change MIGHT do, beyond shaking things up emotionally, would be to give the next guy a chance to tweak our systems and take the next few opponents off guard with a different look. If that gives us a few extra chances per game, maybe it translates to a 5 or 6 game winning streak. And that’s likely enough to get us in.

And after all, this right here^is the key point. I like Peters. I think he might very well be a very good coach. But he isn't winning and even with our less than stellar line up, the way that we're losing places significant responsibility at his feet. We fired our Stanley Cup winning coach because he "lost the room". Mostly, we fired him because his team wasn't performing at the level it should. This team isn't performing at the level it should.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

Probably true, but everything I’ve heard about that third period (didn’t watch LOL) is that it resembled the Detroit and SJ games.

Not really. Neither team was able to get advantage over the other until the final minute 30 or so, when the Flyers had extended zone time.

It was just some ugly hockey, not getting badly outplayed for most of the game.

 

[AhoLottaLove]

I don't agree at all that this is a player issue and not a coach issue. Just look at the talent on the Vegas roster and compare to our roster. Before this season, any hockey fan would say our roster has more talent than a roster comprised of players that other teams deemed expendable. Gallant had that team motivated and prepared to win every night.

Which team would you rather be a fan of: the Hurricanes roster coached by Gallant or the Vegas roster coached by Peters? I know my answer.

This team could be great with the right coach. Although I agree that Peters is a nice guy who players would want to play for his acceptance of mediocrity is a barrier to success. 2 shots in the third period and he thinks the team played well and competed hard. Does that sound like a winner?

 

[Sens1Canes2]

NotOpie, I think they’re performing admirably. To be around the playoffs with this lineup and below average goaltending (although recently Ward has been pretty good)? Pretty damn good.

 

[The Faulker 27]

Not really. Neither team was able to get advantage over the other until the final minute 30 or so, when the Flyers had extended zone time.

It was just some ugly hockey, not getting badly outplayed for most of the game.

Yeah, I don't agree with those that say effort was a problem in the 3rd. I think execution was a problem, but not effort and you can't say effort equals SOG. Sure, if you want to shoot the puck from the neutral zone, because the Canes weren't getting much time in the offensive zone in the third. Just my take.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

NotOpie, I think they’re performing admirably. To be around the playoffs with this lineup and below average goaltending (although recently Ward has been pretty good)? Pretty damn good.

That's my take. This recent skid blows, but overall you can't look at the roster on paper, look at the rest of the League and say they're underachieving a la Laviolette.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I'm going to respectfully disagree here....while I know that AHL performance metrics are not a true indicator of NHL performance metrics (Chris Terry says hello), I believe all 3 of Zykov, Wallmark, and/or Foegele would markedly contribute. Zykov has 23 goals, 10 of which are even strength. Only 3 players on the Canes roster have as many or more even strength goals. I also believe you're selling Wallmark's abilities short. He's at least as good and, from what I've seen, a better skater than Rask and is a better defender than Ryan. He's also a noted distributor. We both agree that Foegele probably can contribute on the 4th line, certainly as a more offensively dangerous option. Personally a few more goals from that 4th line would absolutely make a difference considering our overall lack of scoring and the closeness of many of these recent games.

I love Nordstrom's effort, but if I see him miss another grade "a" chance....I don't think I have to finish that sentence, cause after I wrote it I realized I could substitute 10 other names for Nordy's.

You can respectfully disagree all you want.

Zykov is shooting 30%, which is achievable at the AHL level against AHL goalies, but still 10 ESGs is nothing to write home about. And I know +/- isn't a great stat out of context, but he's the 2nd worst on the team. Could he help at the NHL level? Maybe, but assuming he will is overly optimistic IMO. Wallmark, I stand by my views and would love to be wrong about him. Again, assuming he'll come in and make a difference is optimistic. And even with Foegele, the 4th line gets about 7-8 min. ES a night. And what game would have you thought that 1 goal every few games from a 4th line makes a difference? Other than the last game, we've either lost by 2 or more goals, or goal scoring wasn't the issue.

I know you like to be more on the optimistic side and I know HF usually thinks prospects are the cure to all that ails, but I just don't see it. Again, I have no problem trying it, just don't think that our AHL guys are the fix that you and others think it is.

Might it be motivating? Perhaps, and there would be a benefit to that. But frankly, I've come to the conclusion that there are other guys that are better than a handful of Canes roster players....and some of those guys are just down I85 in Charlotte. I believe that Wallmark has more to contribute than Jooris. I believe that Foegele has more to give than PDG. And I'd be willing to sit Ryan, juggle the line up to put him in the top 9, and see what Zykov could bring for a half-dozen games.

Jooris has played in 5 games in 2018 (and 3 of them are W's by the way) so it doesn't matter if some AHLr is better than him. PDG, fine. He's in and out of the line-up also but as I said earlier, I'd like to see trying Foegele in front of him. I'll say it again, I would have no problem with trying any of these guys, just think that the impact some think they'll have is a lot less than it would really be. Would love to be wrong on that front though.

Coaching aside, I just don't think there is any magic elixir with what we have today, both at the NHL level and AHL level.

 

[Breakdowns]

I don't care that Checkers guys would not be much of improvement, fresh blood (like 2 players), and few scratches would shake things up a bit. We need to do something, so far we are just sitting on our hands and doing nothing.

 

[The Stranger]

Ehh... Was he really saying the players aren't good enough, or that their level of compete and commitment to details hasn't been good enough? While the former is true, I took it as the latter, which is fair.

Yes, the BP post game statements were saying the players weren't playing hard enough...low compete or however you want to phrase it.

Nice to see hair-on-fire Skinner in OT last night...they need more of that in regulation...obviously can't sustain that for an entire game...but let's see more of it.

I've completed my migration to the Rask-should-be-moved camp. I know some will point to his face-off % or his goal total this year...or question BP's impact on his game...however, I think his skating is too much of a liability...it's an issue that bleeds into other aspects of his game.

There have been some posts with the general idea of moving him with added assets to upgrade that position on the lineup and I think that is the right target to improve the roster.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Like I said. No problem with bringing a couple of AHL guys up. I just don't expect the "shake-up" / motivation / improved talent that some think will occur. No harm trying though.

Fact of the matter is, that if Jeff Skinner and Faulk can't score goals, and our defense keeps leaving guys alone in front of the net, and if Rask, Williams, Lindy, don't play better, we aren't good enough to win against these teams. Even when they are playing well, we are only marginally good enough.

 

[What the Faulk]

I don't know if the Checkers would be effective or not in the NHL right now. What I do know is the current group of players, in basically any combination, isn't getting it done anywhere near a consistent basis or overall. If you're not going to make a trade (and it takes two to tango so it's hard to fault Francis too much here), you can't just keep rotating the same 8 guys or so in and out of the lineup and expect different results. They probably would be in a playoff spot if they got league average goaltending instead of the 29th ranked save percentage, but those two are locked in. This team needs to figure out how to win 4-3 instead of hoping to win 2-1, because that's just not working for them. If that takes a new face from Charlotte and a miracle scoring run, then great. I just don't think the guys they have are going to be any better than what we've seen all year -- bobbing up and down on the cut line and praying that when the music ends, they've got a chair.

 

[NotOpie]

I know you like to be more on the optimistic side and I know HF usually thinks prospects are the cure to all that ails, but I just don't see it. Again, I have no problem trying it, just don't think that our AHL guys are the fix that you and others think it is.

I've not really been a "the prospects are better" guy, but do cop to being an optimist....which is why this this is so confusing to me. It's killing my optimism. It just feels like nobody has the answers, which is why I'm laying a bit of this at Peters' feet.

My point about Zykov et al is that they've been proving themselves offensively, which is where we are lacking as a team. I'd easily accept Zykov's current +/- in place of Derek Ryan's, at least for a 5 game stretch or so.

And it's no shocker that we, once again, have to "agree to disagree".

NotOpie, I think they’re performing admirably. To be around the playoffs with this lineup and below average goaltending (although recently Ward has been pretty good)? Pretty damn good.

Would I like more talent on this team? Sure. We need proven scoring...or somebody to step up and prove to be a scorer. However, I've always felt that we should be "good enough" to be on the right side of the bubble. Yes, I'll give you our goaltender woes....we should be winning more than we are. The lack of offense feels like it runs deeper when multiple players aren't scoring up to their potential.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I've not really been a "the prospects are better" guy, but do cop to being an optimist....which is why this this is so confusing to me. It's killing my optimism. It just feels like nobody has the answers, which is why I'm laying a bit of this at Peters' feet.

My point about Zykov et al is that they've been proving themselves offensively, which is where we are lacking as a team. I'd easily accept Zykov's current +/- in place of Derek Ryan's, at least for a 5 game stretch or so.

And it's no shocker that we, once again, have to "agree to disagree".

Not really. We agree it's worth a try (as I've said). I'm just less convinced it will have as big of an impact as others. We'll never know until it's tried though. I mean, it can't be much worse.

 

[bleedgreen]

NotOpie, I think they’re performing admirably. To be around the playoffs with this lineup and below average goaltending (although recently Ward has been pretty good)? Pretty damn good.

I’m with you. Before the season started we all gave our expectations, and overall it seemed we all thought the team would be fighting for the last playoff spot with a 50/50 chance we’d get it.

Darling completely backfired, we’re riding Ward again and somehow we are exactly where we thought we would be. I didn’t think anyone turtled last night. Lindy was all over the place. I liked the game to be honest, it was a solid playoff fight that came down to the last second. This isn’t the game you get pissed about to me. The previous two? Sure.

 

[Stickpucker]

It seems to me that they are playing with a lot of fear. The second period we played simply to not suffer the goal. We do not look like a desperate team, the Flyers seemed much more desperate than us and probably this will also make the difference. I wonder how long we will not do anything to show that we want to make the playoffs. Frankly i didn't see all this effort when we had the lead for example. For sure there is no sense of urgency watching them play.

This is my problem with Peters...I see him coaching to not lose..

 

[Ole Gil]

The zone breakouts bother me. When the offense is working, and it has been at several times during the season, they hit the other teams line with speed with 2 wingers and a dman, with a 4th player on their heels.

Now we've got 2 guys standing on the blue line, a dump in, and the two guys try to go retrieve the puck. But they're starting from a stand still, and there's little support, and it all reeks of being 'super safe' at the cost of generating any transition offense.

The style of play just doesn't match up with the players on the ice. If the dmen are just going to get the puck to center ice, and dump it in, then you don't need Noah Hanifin. Find someone who is great in his own end instead. We've got our small wingers playing dump and chase. Many of our forwards, I'd say a big weakness is acceleration. None of them strike me as 0 to 60 type skaters. So if they're just sitting at the blueline waiting for the dump in, they aren't winning a race to the puck. We've got some guys with playmaking skills, but everything still seems to revolve around getting the puck to the point, and then trying to get a tip. But only Faulk has a booming point shot. Hanifin has a smart shot. And the rest are pretty mediocre.

I'm not a hockey coach, so this could all be nonsense, but I have a hard time making sense of the plan.

 

[Unsustainable]

I’d waive PDG, and recall Zykov.

Skinner - Rask - Zykov line.

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

3 losses since the avatar/name change. Sorry everyone. I have failed you all.

 

[Stickpucker]

Random thoughts on the game:
I
I usually don't like Jordo but last night instead of playing like the bfg he was all like gimme the puck bkthc! It was really good to see.

I liked Lindy at C and he did a better job tilting the ice and holding possession while setting guys up than Rask or Ryan.

Ward ....wow then wow.

Skinner seemed to be feeling it more and more as the game progressed and I liked seeing so much of him in ot.

Thank God Peters didn't go with 2d in OT

mcGinn was good. Shouldn't have been out in OT.

I like TT but when he is off his game he is really really bad and so weak on the boards.

 

[tarheelhockey]

And after all, this right here^is the key point. I like Peters. I think he might very well be a very good coach. But he isn't winning and even with our less than stellar line up, the way that we're losing places significant responsibility at his feet. We fired our Stanley Cup winning coach because he "lost the room". Mostly, we fired him because his team wasn't performing at the level it should. This team isn't performing at the level it should.

Peter Laviolette since leaving Carolina, with PHI and NSH: 306-191-72 (.601)
Carolina Hurricanes during the same timeframe: 321-304-108 (.512)

Paul Maurice since leaving Carolina, with WPG: 168-125-42 (.564)
Carolina Hurricanes during the same timeframe: 205-204-67 (.501)

I really think we need to be careful about thinking we get better with this group of players just by firing the coach. Does it create a brief burst of energy, usually yes, but we've got some recent experience blaming our struggles on a coach "losing the room", just to watch him turn around and have far greater success than his replacement does here. That's very likely to happen if we can Peters, who has garnered some acclaim leaguewide for what he has done with our extremely mediocre group of players.

 

[MinJaBen]

I’d waive PDG, and recall Zykov.

Skinner - Rask - Zykov line.

That's not a bad start. But while we are on the home stand, I'd also send Fleury down as he automatically clears waivers and bring up another forward to rotate in and out. Any one of Walmark, McLovin or Saarela. I'd also send Jorris through waivers and bring up another forward. If we won't play him after the shit-show against the Sharks when Peters says he's going to change everything, then it won't hurt if he doesn't clear waivers.

 

[RodTheBawd]

I’m with you. Before the season started we all gave our expectations, and overall it seemed we all thought the team would be fighting for the last playoff spot with a 50/50 chance we’d get it.

Darling completely backfired, we’re riding Ward again and somehow we are exactly where we thought we would be. I didn’t think anyone turtled last night. Lindy was all over the place. I liked the game to be honest, it was a solid playoff fight that came down to the last second. This isn’t the game you get pissed about to me. The previous two? Sure.

Lindy was better last night, but he's still so f***ing soft. I don't know if he's been permanently broken since rushing him in, but he needs to go watch some video of Forsberg and find a pair. There are so many opportunities on the boards for him to lay somebody out (legally) and he just slows up and bear hugs them.

The zone breakouts bother me. When the offense is working, and it has been at several times during the season, they hit the other teams line with speed with 2 wingers and a dman, with a 4th player on their heels.

Now we've got 2 guys standing on the blue line, a dump in, and the two guys try to go retrieve the puck. But they're starting from a stand still, and there's little support, and it all reeks of being 'super safe' at the cost of generating any transition offense.

The style of play just doesn't match up with the players on the ice. If the dmen are just going to get the puck to center ice, and dump it in, then you don't need Noah Hanifin. Find someone who is great in his own end instead. We've got our small wingers playing dump and chase. Many of our forwards, I'd say a big weakness is acceleration. None of them strike me as 0 to 60 type skaters. So if they're just sitting at the blueline waiting for the dump in, they aren't winning a race to the puck. We've got some guys with playmaking skills, but everything still seems to revolve around getting the puck to the point, and then trying to get a tip. But only Faulk has a booming point shot. Hanifin has a smart shot. And the rest are pretty mediocre.

I'm not a hockey coach, so this could all be nonsense, but I have a hard time making sense of the plan.

I'm not a hockey coach either, but I have the same observation(s). I know teams have adjusted to us, but breakouts went from consistently easy to consistently difficult and I can't pin that all on other team's adjustments.