Free Agents and Trade Thread- Part VII - Wheelin' and Dealin'

[Lightsol]

Shanny's been here 6 years. Fans can make idol chatter all they want, but it is Dubas and Shanny who decide what moves to make and when. They signed JT and traded Kadri for a song and it is them that will decide whether to sign Petro. Whining about what we did in the Quinn era means shit to them.

At the end of the day the marleau trade should be an Indictation of just how much cap space is worth.

A first rounder we really could have used if Lou Lamerillo wasn't really into signing over-the-hill vets for too much money?

And you say I'm "whining about the Quinn era", but it's worth mentioning that YOU'RE the one most strongly pushing the "trade Marner to free up the cap space for Pietro" plan in here. Which, BTW, is what Quinn was doing in the 00's; trading younger skilled players for veterans in hopes that the veterans can get you a Cup win. It's also what Fletcher was doing at the end of HIS first GM tenure with the Leafs. Neither time did this plan work. I don't see it working now; I suspect the only actual result would be shortening any window the Leafs might have. Pietro is one year older than Tavares. You're assuming Pietro will continue to play as a top pairing defenseman while we're already seeing Tavares decline, and we're seeing Drew Doughty (taken a few spots before Pietro) decline. Again, this is what happens when your plan involves picking up veteran after veteran.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

I think it's likely that he's been told he'll be taken care of once it's determined how much they may have left over.

There is probably also a chance he's been told he's not 100% set to return. Depends how everything shakes out.

If Spezza is willing to come back for league minimum for one more year, I don't know what the team would have to wait for. That's a no brainer to get done

 

[I am Canadian]

If Spezza is willing to come back for league minimum for one more year, I don't know what the team would have to wait for. That's a no brainer to get done

Sounds like he wants to do that. Not sure why he's not back yet.

Maybe he would bounce if someone offered 2M but I don't see him carrying about money right now

 

[SeaOfBlue]

A first rounder we really could have used if Lou Lamerillo wasn't really into signing over-the-hill vets for too much money?

And you say I'm "whining about the Quinn era", but it's worth mentioning that YOU'RE the one most strongly pushing the "trade Marner to free up the cap space for Pietro" plan in here. Which, BTW, is what Quinn was doing in the 00's; trading younger skilled players for veterans in hopes that the veterans can get you a Cup win. It's also what Fletcher was doing at the end of HIS first GM tenure with the Leafs. Neither time did this plan work. I don't see it working now; I suspect the only actual result would be shortening any window the Leafs might have. Pietro is one year older than Tavares. You're assuming Pietro will continue to play as a top pairing defenseman while we're already seeing Tavares decline, and we're seeing Drew Doughty (taken a few spots before Pietro) decline. Again, this is what happens when your plan involves picking up veteran after veteran.

I agree with the general sentiment, but I would say it is a little bit unfair to say Tavares is "declining" at this point. However, Tavares only has 5 years left on his deal at the same age when Pietrangelo would have 7 years left, so I can definitely see how age becomes a concern in the future.

 

[Avilaj07]

You are not solving anything though. It is still an inbalanced 3rd line, which is not what Tampa had. They had a playmaker, a guy who could really shoot the puck, and all three were very strong in their own end. You do not have a playmaker on that line, so they would struggle to do anything with whatever possession they get, and they are not anywhere near as good as Tampa's 3rd line defensively. So no, it is not a "perfect" 3rd line.

Adding one of those guys to the mix may be a decent idea, but price and cap likely makes it a bad idea. You would be better off trying to get a guy like Simmonds or Vesey in UFA for less money and no assets; Vesey specifically also provides more in other areas of the game.

If you want a 3rd line that plays the right way, have a smart playmaker down the middle (Kerfoot) with a guy who can be dangerous/effective in a variety of ways (i.e. Robertson) and then a guy who can excel in the tight areas (i.e. Hyman, Mikheyev, Vesey, Virtanen, Bennett, Wood, etc.). Make sure all of them work hard and smart, and make sure they are strong in their own end. Kerfoot, Robertson and Mikheyev all fit that quite well, but if you want someone who has a bit more of a traditional edge (i.e. Simmonds), then you can work that in there as well.

It's obvious you missed my whole argument. Having both Virtanen and Wood in the wings gives you speed, snarl, and decent scoring. For the record, Virtanen has a great shot. Virtanen and Kapanen are extremely similar except I'd give Virtanen the physical edge. We need to change our bottom 6 completely. I don't give a crap if they're not scoring at a crazy pace as long as when they're on the ice, they're causing havoc for the opposing team and being solid defensively.

You keep mentioning Kerfoot, Robertson and Mikheyev which once again, doesn't solve anything regarding our bottom 6 and adding some snarl and attitude. It seems like you're content with just running offensive minded players who won't cause any havoc. If that's the case, we'll never win a playoff round. Once again, take a look at what Tampa did. Offensively I'd say they're on par with us but they added Coleman ,Maroon, Bogosian, Goodrow, Schenn who are all aggressive feisty players and guess what, they won the cup.

As for Simmonds, I really hope you were joking about that. At this point in his career, Simmonds is nothing more then a 4th line who plays 6-8 minutes a night.

 

[LeafChief]

If Spezza is willing to come back for league minimum for one more year, I don't know what the team would have to wait for. That's a no brainer to get done

I would agree but I think with the unknown of which players aren't going to get qualified, it doesn't hurt to wait and see what else is available first. Might be able to upgrade.

Spezza has also said its basically Toronto or retirement. Maybe he doesn't sign with the Leafs until mid-way through the season once some cap opens up.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Correction: They did not add "more" grit. They added "better" grit.

Miller, Callahan and Erne are/were all gritty players. Since hit numbers are super important to people for some reason, all three were well over 100 hits the year they were ousted (and in the case of Callahan and Miller, were well over 100 hits for multiple years). Those were the guys they replaced with Maroon, Coleman and Goodrow. I don't think Tampa wanted to move Miller, but cap said otherwise. Callahan and Erne were both physical, but they provided practically nothing else of value. Tampa decided to add better players who did more than just hit people, so why is it a surprise that they received more out of those players?

 

[Jozay]

See, the difference is that Tampa added good players with that brought an edge, like Coleman, Maroon and Goodrow.

Simmonds is a borderline NHL'er at this point.

 

[17 Clark]

See, the difference is that Tampa added good players with that brought an edge, like Coleman, Maroon and Goodrow.

Simmonds is a borderline NHL'er at this point.

Are you sure it’s not just being in a better roll Look at Luke Shem I’m glad to see he won the Stanley Cup

 

[Jozay]

Are you sure it’s not just being in a better roll Look at Luke Shem I’m glad to see he won the Stanley Cup

Is Simmonds gonna prove he's an NHL'er playing 5 mins on the 4th line?

 

[Lightsol]

Is Simmonds gonna prove he's an NHL'er playing 5 mins on the 4th line?

Too many Leaf fans are looking for the one "magic" move that turns this team around. I don't think this team is one move away; I think they need a few.

Another problem; fans tend to myopically focus on ONE trait the team is lacking, and just push to get guys that provide that one trait without bothering to look outside of it. And right now, that one trait is physicality.

 

[17 Clark]

Is Simmonds gonna prove he's an NHL'er playing 5 mins on the 4th line?

Probably more than some of our fourth liners

 

[A1LeafNation]

Robertson _______ Korshkov
Martin Engvall Perry

...is my bottom 6. Possibly Spezza, Barabanov, or Hallander could steal a spot.

Would love a big, PK, playmaking center for 700k, lol.

 

[dubplatepressure]

Sven Baerschi is rumoured to be being bought out .would be an upgrade in skill over Malgin. Could be an interesting League min signing. Won't add anything on the physicality front.

 

[Rob Brown]

See, the difference is that Tampa added good players with that brought an edge, like Coleman, Maroon and Goodrow.

Simmonds is a borderline NHL'er at this point.

A lot of people thought Perry was done, too.

 

[Kiwi]

Sven Baerschi is rumoured to be being bought out .would be an upgrade in skill over Malgin. Could be an interesting League min signing. Won't add anything on the physicality front.

They think Turris may be brought out as well, he'd make a good target if were looking to add center depth or a Kerfoot deal presents itself

 

[dubplatepressure]

They think Turris may be brought out as well, he'd make a good target if were looking to add center depth or a Kerfoot deal presents itself

I would be all over that if we were talking min salaries..

 

[SeaOfBlue]

It's obvious you missed my whole argument. Having both Virtanen and Wood in the wings gives you speed, snarl, and decent scoring. For the record, Virtanen has a great shot. Virtanen and Kapanen are extremely similar except I'd give Virtanen the physical edge. We need to change our bottom 6 completely. I don't give a crap if they're not scoring at a crazy pace as long as when they're on the ice, they're causing havoc for the opposing team and being solid defensively.

You keep mentioning Kerfoot, Robertson and Mikheyev which once again, doesn't solve anything regarding our bottom 6 and adding some snarl and attitude. It seems like you're content with just running offensive minded players who won't cause any havoc. If that's the case, we'll never win a playoff round. Once again, take a look at what Tampa did. Offensively I'd say they're on par with us but they added Coleman ,Maroon, Bogosian, Goodrow, Schenn who are all aggressive feisty players and guess what, they won the cup.

As for Simmonds, I really hope you were joking about that. At this point in his career, Simmonds is nothing more then a 4th line who plays 6-8 minutes a night.

No, I am not missing the whole argument. You are just drastically misevaluating the value of everyone involved and even more drastically misevaluating why Tampa added players like Coleman, Maroon, and Goodrow.

1) Tampa did not add more grit to their lineup. They added more skill to their existing grit. They knew that simply having guys who ran around and caused havoc (i.e. Erne and Callahan), but provided little other value, was not enough value out of their bottom 6. So they added guys who were stronger defensively, smarter and better offensively, and still provided the same physical element. That is not what you are doing; you are downgrading skill for the sake of adding grit, which is going in the direction that Tampa knew did not work.

2) You are drastically simplifying the reason why Tampa won a Cup. Your logic is that "they got feistier, and look, they won a Cup"? I never knew winning a Cup was so easy? I am not going to undercut those player's contributions to the win, but I would say Tampa's copious amount of well-rounded skill and Vezina-caliber goalie had significantly more to do with their win than their grit... Because they beat 4 teams who were much more physical than them on their way to their win.

3) Kerfoot and Mikheyev provide a lot more to the game than offense. Robertson provided a lot more than offense at the OHL level, and in fact it was his defensive ability and hard work that helped him produce as much as he did. They all bring qualities that teams need out of their depth guys if they want to win a Cup, and are extremely well-rounded players. I am not going to focus on only one attribute when I am building a team, because that is not how you win.

4) I agree that Simmonds is nothing special, but I would rather pay him at league minimum than pay whatever assets you need to get Bennett/Wood/Virtanen and an additional like 2 mill in cap if all I want is to add more grit to the lineup.

 

[Amadeus]

I am feeling that despite all the build up of increased activity, it'll be a dud .. like it usually is.

 

[Kiwi]

I would be all over that if we were talking min salaries..

I don't think we'd get him for league min but I could see him coming in 1-1.5M under what Kerfoot is getting and I think those two players would give you a similar amount of on ice value for a couple of years

 

[ToneDog]

A first rounder we really could have used if Lou Lamerillo wasn't really into signing over-the-hill vets for too much money?

And you say I'm "whining about the Quinn era", but it's worth mentioning that YOU'RE the one most strongly pushing the "trade Marner to free up the cap space for Pietro" plan in here. Which, BTW, is what Quinn was doing in the 00's; trading younger skilled players for veterans in hopes that the veterans can get you a Cup win. It's also what Fletcher was doing at the end of HIS first GM tenure with the Leafs. Neither time did this plan work. I don't see it working now; I suspect the only actual result would be shortening any window the Leafs might have. Pietro is one year older than Tavares. You're assuming Pietro will continue to play as a top pairing defenseman while we're already seeing Tavares decline, and we're seeing Drew Doughty (taken a few spots before Pietro) decline. Again, this is what happens when your plan involves picking up veteran after veteran.

Not pushing for a Marner trade but if the Leafs decide to sign Petro trading Marner or Nylander makes sense. If they don't sign Petro they will be using another duct tape approach to solve the problems on the right side. I am fine with either approach although the later is riskier.

I get you want to go with youth but the team is clearly in win mode and as such you are not getting a young top 2 RHD without giving up Nylander or Marner anyway.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Sven Baerschi is rumoured to be being bought out .would be an upgrade in skill over Malgin. Could be an interesting League min signing. Won't add anything on the physicality front.

Nothing against Baertschi, but I am not sure he is a guarantee to make our lineup and if I were him, I would go to a weaker team like Ottawa or Buffalo with the hope of getting a big role to prove myself, and then hope that I can get dealt to a contender at the TDL.

 

[Brobust]

Trying to appease everyone with this trade.


William Nylander
Morgan Rielly


Aaron Ekblad
Spencer Knight
12th Overall Pick

 

[Jozay]

I am feeling that despite all the build up of increased activity, it'll be a dud .. like it usually is.

Always is with the NHL.

 

[Cor]

I am feeling that despite all the build up of increased activity, it'll be a dud .. like it usually is.

Off-seasons are pretty active.