GDT: Free Agent Frenzy!

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Piestany88

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Their roster is NOTHING like the Avs was. If you try to relate them you are fooling yourself.

There is a very strong track record for teams with no defense and goaltending, even if they have some good forwards. We should expect Ott to preform similarly to Buf of the past few years and Edm before Mcdavid.

Ott is about as surefire bottom 3 team as you can have.
And there are more good players than just Hughes next year as well
 
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Echo Roku

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, not rosters like this devoid of all talent.
Probably the epitome of how you’re lettinb your optimism cloud your judgement

You don’t seem interested in anything but embracing the most optimistic view, given your argument is more declarations than anything else, so we can both drop it
 

Meeqs

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Love the idea the Avs shouldnt be making a fair offer , cause honestly why should they?

Like I've said a few times, if I'm calling Dorion I'm not even offering them their 1st back. Maybe Makar + our 1st with a top 10 protection and conditional that he resigns in Col but other than that I'm just entertaining offers and wasting his time without ever being serious about it. Its in the Avs best interest to deteriorate whats going on with that team.
 

xbestboybandever

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If that doesn’t answer the question, then you’re choosing to miss the point

It’s not an anything can happen. It’s a... they’re not some completely talentless team. As long as they try to be competitive and get okay NHL ready replacements in trades for their lost players, it’s not some fabulous miracle for them to end up on top of the rebuilding teams of the league

I asked a basic question for you to list ten teams you think will be worse. Theabusementpark did it and it wasn't even directed at his statement.

They are not a completely talentless team, but they do not have much talent outside of Stone/Duchene/Chabot. With the one major trade they made this offseason (Hoffman) they brought in an underachieving winger that will not replicate what they lost in Hoffman. The owner does not want to spend money to bring in high priced players and most of the proposals are futures packages with maybe one NHL player to help balance cap hit. The rebuilding teams minus Montreal and NYR have a lot more talent that I would bet money on will finish higher than Ottawa.
 

Echo Roku

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I asked a basic question for you to list ten teams you think will be worse. Theabusementpark did it and it wasn't even directed at his statement.

They are not a completely talentless team, but they do not have much talent outside of Stone/Duchene/Chabot. With the one major trade they made this offseason (Hoffman) they brought in an underachieving winger that will not replicate what they lost in Hoffman. The owner does not want to spend money to bring in high priced players and most of the proposals are futures packages with maybe one NHL player to help balance cap hit. The rebuilding teams minus Montreal and NYR have a lot more talent that I would bet money on will finish higher than Ottawa.
You asked a leading question that avoids the actual point

Not that the rest of your post actually makes an argument against my point
 
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The Abusement Park

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If that doesn’t answer the question, then you’re choosing to miss the point

It’s not an anything can happen. It’s a... they’re not some completely talentless team. As long as they try to be competitive and get okay NHL ready replacements in trades for their lost players, it’s not some fabulous miracle for them to end up on top of the rebuilding teams of the league

They might not be talentless. But they aren’t far away. They have no 1C, no 1D, no 1G and maybe 2 top 4 at the moment. I mean they could definitely add a top 4 d in a trade, but he’ll have to be their number 1D man(or Ceci lol). They could add a top 6 player in an EK trade, but that would leave them with 3-4 top 6 players. Stone would be the only top line player, forward or defenseman that they would have. In their defense though OTT’s prospect pool will look really good after the EK trade though and they should be looking good for the future.
 

Meeqs

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Probably the epitome of how you’re lettinb your optimism cloud your judgement

You don’t seem interested in anything but embracing the most optimistic view, given your argument is more declarations than anything else, so we can both drop it

They have 3 players that are good: Duchene, Stone and EK. The latter of whom is going to be moved for a return thats less of an impact. You don't win in the NHL only have 2-4 good players on a roster of 23. There is absolutely ZERO reason why you should have any optimism about what is going on in OTT right now. To do so would be insane.

My argument is clear, concise and backed up with precedence. You are just trying to be fake smart without putting up any actual points what so ever. Have fun living in your own reality where none of Otts glaring problems matter next year because they will try really hard and are powered through your optimism :help:
 

Piestany88

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Without EK/Ryan:
Stone/Duchene/Boedker
Dzingel/ JPG/ Gaborik
Pyatt/Smith/MPS
White/Brown/Formenton

Ceci/Chabot
Harpur/Wolanin
Wideman/Borowiecki

Goalies:
Condon
Anderson(who wants out)

They might get 1-2 mid NHL level players in an EK deal. Now compare that to Buf's roster from last year and look at how similar they are. There is a strong track record for how teams with this serious of holes preform. Seasons are varied for teams like Chi/NYR/Car who have actual NHL pieces and a few holes, not rosters like this devoid of all talent.

If you don't have D or goaltending in the NHL you don't have a shot of being good, and when its completely devoid of any talent like we saw in Buf, Edm pre Mcdavid, and the 2010-11 Avs your fate is pretty much guaranteed.

You can keep up with this "anything can happen" argument and fill paragraphs with nothing of substance like you have before but all it does is show your own lack of understanding.
That is one ugly roster :nod:
 

xbestboybandever

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You asked a leading question that avoids the actual point

Not that the rest of your post actually makes an argument against my point

It's not a leading question, it's a question that I am honestly interested in. You say ten teams can finish below them, I am curious as to who those teams are.

Ottawa is not talentless, but can you name 5 players off the team that you would want to trade decent assets for once Karlsson is gone?
 

Echo Roku

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They have 3 players that are good: Duchene, Stone and EK. The latter of whom is going to be moved for a return thats less of an impact. You don't win in the NHL only have 2-4 good players on a roster of 23. There is absolutely ZERO reason why you should have any optimism about what is going on in OTT right now. To do so would be insane.

My argument is clear, concise and backed up with precedence. You are just trying to be fake smart without putting up any actual points what so ever. Have fun living in your own reality where none of Otts glaring problems matter next year because they will try really hard and are powered through your optimism :help:
Ah, more declarations. Neat.

Apparently finishing at best at 10th worst is optimism

You realize I’m an Avs fan, right?
 

Echo Roku

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It's not a leading question, it's a question that I am honestly interested in. You say ten teams can finish below them, I am curious as to who those teams are.

Ottawa is not talentless, but can you name 5 players off the team that you would want to trade decent assets for once Karlsson is gone?
I think it’s way too early to say, as guesses aren’t worth much. 10 is obviously an arbitrary anyways. The point has always been that the pick will only become less valuable the longer we keep it, bar luck on our side

Getting something like 10th overall is not some miracle scenario. Simple as that.
 

Piestany88

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I view the pick as a top 4 pick, but any of those players should give the Avs a 1st line forward which is a huge need unlike defense which they are pretty set at. Especially a high end center which is the team biggest need atm.
This is a great opportunity to gamble . Avs could be a playoff team that names some noise and still select #1 overall. :naughty:
 

Piestany88

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I think it’s way too early to say, as guesses aren’t worth much. 10 is obviously an arbitrary anyways. The point has always been that the pick will only become less valuable the longer we keep it, bar luck on our side

Getting something like 10th overall is not some miracle scenario. Simple as that.
No it becomes more valuable when Karlsson is gone and the sell off Duchene and Stone at the deadline .
 

milehigh11

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Any other teams that are offering picks are their own and will be in the 20s to late firsts. NO reason for us to offer the Ottawa pick which looks like a top 5 pick and add to that.

Heck we offer ours with protection since its a strong draft class, Timmins (concussion issues) and some other prospects.

NO reason for us to sugar coat the deal with Ottawa 1st and Barrie. Thats just stupid.
 
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milehigh11

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And this is the sort of circle jerking optimism I am warning against


Huh. its pretty standard they will probably trade Duchene and Stone if each shows they dont want to be part of a rebuild. Duchene said so much here bout wanting to play in the playoffs. You dont think he is watching how that front office operates?

I see Stone going to arbitration to be an UFA next offseason.
 
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AllAboutAvs

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In July last year who would have said there would be 10 teams worst than VGK let alone 29? Yes they had Fleury but the way Anderson has been in his career you never know.

Do I think they will finish better than bottom-5? No not with that D and lack of talent but considering potential injuries to other teams , etc 8-10 finish could always happen.
 

Raucherhusten

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It's mindblowing to me that some ppl actually value Ottawas 1st next season more than Erik f***ing Karlsson for the next 9 years. Sure there is the chance to get Hughes ... but guys, Erik f***ing Karlsson ffs.

What would you do if someone makes you the following offer: Either you get 1 Million (Erik f***ing Karlsson) right now OR you get a lottery ticket which gives you a 15% chance for 2 Million (Hughes - i doubled his value because of his age). What would you do?
 

Meeqs

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This is a great opportunity to gamble . Avs could be a playoff team that names some noise and still select #1 overall. :naughty:

There is a reason top 5 picks are never moved. They give you a chance to add a very likely high end to elite young talent to your roster for their entire prime all while being very cost controlled. That Ott pick is the thing the Avs need the most.

Trading Otts 1st for EK is simply the marshmallow test. Thats really all it is. Would you rather have the asset in the future that is much better aligned with the current trajectory of the team that will fill a need or would you rather have the immediate asset with much less overall value who doesn't fit the teams goals as well nor is current need.

At least psychologically speaking I'd wager that those who believe the pick is the better option are far more successful in their personal lives due to their ability to understand delayed gratification, work with imperfect information and arent hindered by risk adverse behavior
 
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Piestany88

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There is a reason top 5 picks are never moved. They give you a chance to add a very likely high end to elite young talent to your roster for their entire prime all while being very cost controlled. That Ott pick is the thing the Avs need the most.

Trading Otts 1st for EK is simply the marshmallow test. Thats really all it is. Would you rather have the asset in the future that is much better aligned with the current trajectory of the team that will fill a need or would you rather have the immediate asset with much less overall value who doesn't fit the teams goals as well nor is current need.

At least psychologically speaking I'd wager that those who believe the pick is the better option are far more successful in their personal lives due to their ability to understand delayed gratification, work with imperfect information and arent hindered by risk adverse behavior

Also Karlsson never skated as well as his old self last year. Will he ever skate like that again , it is a possibility he doesn't. He also severed his Achilles tendon before . I think he's a depreciating player
 

Avs_19

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Guys on the mainboards are saying this guy is pretty reliable


Isn't this the same guy who just had the Bozak to the Avs stuff last week? He's not reliable at all.

I'll say this, this is a pretty good way to go if you're going to pretend to have sources and run with something. Karlsson talks heating up, some talk it could be done within 48 hours, Vegas has always been a front runner, etc. So just go and throw it out there.
 

lonelybadger

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If I am Sakic and Karlsson does go to Vegas, I instantly send that 1 year 8 million dollar offersheet to Stone the second the trade call is complete.
 
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