GDT: Free Agent Frenzy | The Madness Continues

[StevenB]

well at least we won't have to listen to how "elite Willy" can't do s**t playing with a couple of stiffs like Marleau and Brown. That excuse has vaporized, and I agree he better play with Mathews because riding Austin's coattails is probably the only way he does live up to expectations.

You say “riding Matthews’ coattails” like Matthews doesn’t benefit from having Nylander on his line. Matthews hasn’t looked like the same player either since Nylander got taken off his line. He put up a large chunk of his points on the PP when it was working then disappeared when it wasnt’t. He doesn’t dominate 5v5 like he used to when he was playing with Willy. Obviously elite players benefit from playing with elite players. That rhetoric that Willy “rides” Matthews’ coattails has been beaten to death and imo makes no sense

 

[gabeliscious]

Just think of the possibilities here...

Rielly Barrie
Muzzin Dermott
Gardiner Ceci

... let me dream okay

Apologies....dream away

 

[StevenB]

I'm dreaming a bit here of course but if they work out some sort of agreement that will get Gardiner a good amount of money long-term, even if short-term it sounds like a big pay cut... But I agree, it's very likely not happening. I just find it fascinating he hasn't signed yet despite being one of the better available defenseman out there and Dubas saying they are still talking to him.

If it did happen, the pairings would be out of this world.

I think he’s holding out hoping that the Leafs give him an offer he likes. The dude loves playing in Toronto and I have to give it to him after all the bashing he’s received from us

 

[SprDaVE]

Apologies....dream away

Yeah it's definitely not happening... Cheers.

I think he’s holding out hoping that the Leafs give him an offer he likes. The dude loves playing in Toronto and I have to give it to him after all the bashing he’s received from us

Unless he wants to take league minimum, I think he's better off taking his full value with another team. He deserves a nice chunk of change.

If Ceci was let go or traded... maybe it makes some sense...

I doubt it. It's not possible to fit Gardiner in even at a reduced rate, regardless of what Marner takes. Only way Gardiner could ever fit in would be to trade another roster guy, and the Leafs should not (and almost certainly will not) do that for someone of Gardiner's caliber.

The main thing is to get Ceci and Kerfoot locked in at reasonable numbers so you can still get a better backup than Michael Hutchinson or Garret Sparks. If Ceci gets 4.5 mill, which is at least 1 mill more than he's worth, then that's going to be tough for the Leafs.

Yeah it's not happening, I agree. Leafs will be lucky to have more than a few hundred thousand in cap space left after Kerfoot and Marner.

 

[StevenB]

Yeah it's definitely not happening... Cheers.



Unless he wants to take league minimum, I think he's better off taking his full value with another team. He deserves a nice chunk of change.

If Ceci was let go or traded... maybe it makes some sense...



Yeah it's not happening, I agree. Leafs will be lucky to have more than a few hundred thousand in cap space left after Kerfoot and Marner.

Yeah I totally agree he’s not coming back unless we trade Ceci and Gards wants to take 4.5M. We don’t have the space

 

[rumman]

You say “riding Matthews’ coattails” like Matthews doesn’t benefit from having Nylander on his line. Matthews hasn’t looked like the same player either since Nylander got taken off his line. He put up a large chunk of his points on the PP when it was working then disappeared when it wasnt’t. He doesn’t dominate 5v5 like he used to when he was playing with Willy. Obviously elite players benefit from playing with elite players. That rhetorik that Willy “rides” Matthews’ coattails has been beaten to death and imo makes no sense

one would think that "elite" players can drive their own lines and don't need to be paired with other "elite" players to be successful. Yes, pairing them up obviously makes for a more potent line, but Mathews was doing fine while Nylander was holding out, Nylander looked lost at times last year playing sheltered minutes on the 3rd line.

Let's hope he can do better next season, and if that means being stapled to Mathew's wing to ensure success than I'm all for it.

 

[WTFMAN99]

I have to say, I am not 100% confident still about Ceci being here.

Hyman-Tavares-Marner (I did 10M x8 yrs, that Aho deal really hurt leverage)
Johnsson-Matthews-Nylander
Moore-Kerfoot (2 yrs at 2.85M)-Kapanen
Agostino-Spezza-Mikhayev
Shore-Gauthier

Rielly-Barrie
Muzzin-Ceci (1 yr 4.5M)
Dermott-Holl

Andersen
Hutchinson

Ceci at 4.5M just stands out now amongst all of our contracts as the weak link.

Kerfoot based on projection model showed him earning a 2 year deal at 2.8M but I added an extra 50k just to be safe.

In a perfect world here it is something like

Rielly-X
Muzzin-Barrie (think this pairing could be amazing)
Dermott-X
Holl (or Gravel, went for cheaper player in Holl)

Current cap space is 990k with this line up. Dubas scored some points with me yesterday, he did a really good job with the trade but I think he probably recognizes that Ceci can't fit on this roster. Someone is bound to still like Ceci that we could make a swap with, even if that person coming back only had like 1 year left on their deal (Stecher for Ceci?). Anyways just spitballing here.

 

[StevenB]

one would think that "elite" players can drive their own lines and don't need to be paired with other "elite" players to be successful. Yes, pairing them up obviously makes for a more potent line, but Mathews was doing fine while Nylander was holding out, Nylander looked lost at times last year playing sheltered minutes on the 3rd line.

Let's hope he can do better next season, and if that means being stapled to Mathew's wing to ensure success than I'm all f0r it.

I disagree with the statement that Matthews was doing fine. Even before he went down, his 5v5 play wasn’t where it was with Nylander. A good chunk of his offense was coming from the PP at the beginning when they were scoring non-stop. If you take away the improvement in his PP points (20 from 13) from this year vs last year, he would’ve had 66 in 68 this year against his 63 in 62 the year before.

That’s stagnation at best, and usually you don’t see your “franchise” player stagnate in offense from his sophomore to junior year. He also had an extra 30 seconds of ATOI (18:03 to 18:33) this year compared to last year

Again they benefit from playing with each other. They make each other better players but for you to say that Matthews carried him isn’t factual especially considering that Matthews best seasons came from playing with Willy as his most often partner

 

[thewave]

I disagree with the statement that Matthews was doing fine. Even before he went down, his 5v5 play wasn’t where it was with Nylander. A good chunk of his offense was coming from the PP at the beginning when they were scoring non-stop. If you take away the improvement in his PP points (20 from 13) from this year vs last year, he would’ve had 66 in 68 this year against his 63 in 62 the year before.

That’s stagnation at best, and usually you don’t see your “franchise” player stagnate in offense from his sophomore to junior year. He also had an extra 30 seconds of ATOI (18:03 to 18:33) this year compared to last year

Again they benefit from playing with each other. They make each other better players but for you to say that Matthews carried him isn’t factual especially considering that Matthews best seasons came from playing with Willy as his most often partner

This is pretty much a good chunk of why many here feel the Matthews deal was an overpay

 

[thewave]

Highly doubt Dubas is done. Looking for smaller moves and maybe action on Ceci and another defender.

 

[Peasy]

You say “riding Matthews’ coattails” like Matthews doesn’t benefit from having Nylander on his line. Matthews hasn’t looked like the same player either since Nylander got taken off his line. He put up a large chunk of his points on the PP when it was working then disappeared when it wasnt’t. He doesn’t dominate 5v5 like he used to when he was playing with Willy. Obviously elite players benefit from playing with elite players. That rhetorik that Willy “rides” Matthews’ coattails has been beaten to death and imo makes no sense

I find it hilarious when people make statements like that lol. Would Pastrnak put up the numbers he does every year if hes not playing with Marchand and Bergergon? I would argue no.

 

[Sypher04]

This is pretty much a good chunk of why many here feel the Matthews deal was an overpay

Leave it to Babcock to staple Marleau/Kapanen to his wing early. And Kapanen/Johnsson to his wings to end.
Marleau is self explanatory. Kapanen/Johnsson are fine young players - I like them both BUT:

Every single one of the players Matthews, Marleau, Johnsson and Kapanen are shooters.
It's nonsense line construction.
Matthews is arguably the best goalscorer in the entire NHL. He should be riding shotgun to at least 1 playmaking style player at all times.

 

[rumman]

I find it hilarious when people make statements like that lol. Would Pastrnak put up the numbers he does every year if hes not playing with Marchand and Bergergon? I would argue no.

stop with the pasta references when taking about Nylander, your just embarrassing yourself. Pasta is a complete player, he can shoot, pass, score, take a hit, and dish out hits. Nylander not so much............

 

[Sypher04]

stop with the pasta references when taking about Nylander, your just embarrassing yourself. Pasta is a complete player, he can shoot, pass, score, take a hit, and dish out hits. Nylander not so much............

Don't be so sensitive. It's a valid comment.
Pasta may be a more complete player. Nothing he said, disputes this.
He also benefits heavily from playing with Bergeron & Marchand
Both can be true

 

[rumman]

I have to say, I am not 100% confident still about Ceci being here.

Hyman-Tavares-Marner (I did 10M x8 yrs, that Aho deal really hurt leverage)
Johnsson-Matthews-Nylander
Moore-Kerfoot (2 yrs at 2.85M)-Kapanen
Agostino-Spezza-Mikhayev
Shore-Gauthier

Rielly-Barrie
Muzzin-Ceci (1 yr 4.5M)
Dermott-Holl

Andersen
Hutchinson

Ceci at 4.5M just stands out now amongst all of our contracts as the weak link.

Kerfoot based on projection model showed him earning a 2 year deal at 2.8M but I added an extra 50k just to be safe.

In a perfect world here it is something like

Rielly-X
Muzzin-Barrie (think this pairing could be amazing)
Dermott-X
Holl (or Gravel, went for cheaper player in Holl)

Current cap space is 990k with this line up. Dubas scored some points with me yesterday, he did a really good job with the trade but I think he probably recognizes that Ceci can't fit on this roster. Someone is bound to still like Ceci that we could make a swap with, even if that person coming back only had like 1 year left on their deal (Stecher for Ceci?). Anyways just spitballing here.

I have to agree, Ceci at 4.5 seem steep for a team desperate for cap space.

 

[rumman]

Don't be so sensitive. It's a valid comment.
Pasta may be a more complete player. Nothing he said, disputes this.
He also benefits heavily from playing with Bergeron & Marchand
Both can be true

I'm not being "sensitive" just keeping a proper amount of perspective in the conversation.

 

[Sypher04]

I'm not being "sensitive" just keeping a proper amount of perspective in the conversation.

Didn't need any perspective as the post you responded to never claimed that Nylander was as complete as Pastrnak.

 

[rumman]

Didn't need any perspective as the post you responded to never claimed that Nylander was as complete as Pastrnak.

I get the impression he thinks they're equal, but that just might be the impression I get from reading his posts.

 

[Sypher04]

I get the impression he thinks they're equal, but that just might be the impression I get from reading his posts.

Fair enough, I guess. I didn't read it that way.

 

[thewave]

I'm not being "sensitive" just keeping a proper amount of perspective in the conversation.

Pasta is a tier up, being paid a tier below his value. Nylander is a tier below being paid a half tier above. Not sure how to compare the two other than to say one is a great contract and the other could of been better.

 

[ULF_55]

Which RD defender on the Leafs is better than Ceci?
Which RD defender on the Leafs has years on the PK?

I haven't even seen details of any contract that was verbally agreed to.

Is there a signing bonus?

Let's say half his salary is signing bonus, that would make it enticing for something like Ceci for ...

 

[fahad203]

Who are some top free agents left in the market now?

 

[WTFMAN99]

215k cap space

No extra defenseman

Holl is in the starting 6

There will be another move.

 

[ULF_55]

View attachment 242249

215k cap space

No extra defenseman

Holl is in the starting 6

There will be another move.

They can waive Holl can call up any of the other cheap D.

Holl will have to earn it.

 

[justafan22]

Which RD defender on the Leafs is better than Ceci?
Which RD defender on the Leafs has years on the PK?

I haven't even seen details of any contract that was verbally agreed to.

Is there a signing bonus?

Let's say half his salary is signing bonus, that would make it enticing for something like Ceci for ...

That's the thing.

I'm fine with trading Ceci/letting him go, but they have to replace him with a RHD that can eat those minutes.

on the UFA market there's nothing left for RHD's even of his calibre.