Speculation: Free Agent Defenceman Targets

Which UFA defenseman would you target?


  • Total voters
    65

Kiwi

Registered User
Mar 5, 2016
21,042
15,981
The Naki
Dermott is an RFA with no arb rights who can be given a qualifying offer (875K) if he's a real prick to deal with

Now I ask why he seems to be getting 2M again?

Screw Dermott and Gauthier over, resign Mikheyev and Spezza, then trade one of Kapanen/Kerfoot/Johnsson without taking money back and your under with spares and cap space to manoeuvre
 

IPS

Registered User
Sep 28, 2017
15,501
24,595
Dermott is an RFA with no arb rights who can be given a qualifying offer (875K) if he's a real prick to deal with

Now I ask why he seems to be getting 2M again?

Screw Dermott and Gauthier over, resign Mikheyev and Spezza, then trade one of Kapanen/Kerfoot/Johnsson without taking money back and your under with spares and cap space to manoeuvre

He shouldn't get 2M. It's beyond infuriating watching this franchise overpay everyone. I don't wanna hear any BS about "keeping good relationships" with players, Boston lowballs the ever living f*** out of all their players and their relationships seem ok.
 
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Kiwi

Registered User
Mar 5, 2016
21,042
15,981
The Naki
He shouldn't get 2M. It's beyond infuriating watching this franchise overpay everyone. I don't wanna hear any BS about "keeping good relationships" with players, Boston lowballs the ever living f*** out of all their players and their relationships seem ok.

Our players have taken us to the woodshed, all I heard at the time was it's just business so it's time to start behaving like it and using our leverage against them for a change
 

Rogue Leader

Registered User
Oct 12, 2019
1,582
2,358
Corellia
imagine being a fan of a team that won’t be able to keep the lights on. I think there will be many teams who will be in a bad spot with this pandemic. The leafs only being able to spend 81 million will pale in comparison
Yeah, you are right!
 

Smif

Registered User
Jan 23, 2008
9,840
3,669
Hamilton
With the current situation - after Barrie and Ceci leave - the Leafs' presumably have Rielly, Muzzin, Dermott, Holl, Sandin, Liljegren (Marincin and Rosen). There are several major problems with this. Probably too many to fix with in the current cap situation.

Experience, grit, meanness, the ability to clear the front of the net and break the cycle. They have very little of any of that.

There is also the ongoing partner for Rielly problem which will require the Leafs to find a 1RD and the salary that will come with that. I personally think that the organization plans to solve the Rielly problem shifting him to the right side and going back to Muzzin - Rielly. They worked well together. We didn't see them at all this season, but the Leafs had Barrie, Ceci and Holl on the right and they without injuries on the right side until after Rielly was already out. I have been planning to go back and watch those games in early 2019 when the two played together, but haven't had the chance.

That potentially creates:
Muzzin - Rielly
Dermott - Holl
Sandin - Liljegren

But that leaves two pairs with almost no experience. Generally when people talk about experience they talk about the need to have a cup winner or two on your team to help know what it takes to go all the way. Certainly important, and the Leafs have Muzzin on D (and Clifford on F if he re-signs).

But there is a lot more to experience. Those 6 D have a total of 1373 games of experience (Muzzin - 579, Rielly - 517, Dermott - 157, Holl - 81, Sandin - 28, Liljegren - 11).

If you look at the top-6 in terms of playoff ice time for the last 10 Cup champs the average number of regular season games experience their top-6 had was 2881 games played. The lowest - the 2012 Kings had 2202 games played. Experience matters. The Leafs' D doesn't have it.

Plenty of those cup winners had a D in their top-6 with minimal NHL experience. Some had two. But four? Most of those teams had someone on their bottom pairing with around 900 games or more, and the 2015 Hawks had Timonen and Rozsival as a bottom pairing with 1998 games experience between them.

The other problem with lack of experience is the difficulty in bringing young D into your lineup. The Leafs' D pipeline is almost all the same type of D - small puck movers - Sandin, Liljegren, Hollowell, Duzsak, Lindgren etc. Their D-core is not set up to successfully bring those D into the lineup.

Over the years I have looked at young D being brought into NHL lineups going back to 2007/08 (the first year naturalstattrick gives TOI of teammates) and the types of partners placed with young D is what everyone should expect: experienced, or big/mean, or experienced and big/mean.

For instance, the top two D in the calder vote in 2008 were Enstrom and Niskanen. The former was partnered with 34-year-old Havelid and the latter split his time between 37-year-old Zubov and 36-year-old Norstrom. The two D in the calder vote the following season were Doughty and Bogosian. The former was partnered with 37-year-old O'Donnell and the latter was partnered with 39-year-old Schneider (in both of those cases those extremely experienced D were specifically signed to partner with those 18-year old rookies).

I have little expectation, based on history, and having watched them this season, that Sandin/Liljegren, Sandin/Holl, Sandin/Dermott, Dermott/Liljegren, Rosen/Liljegren, Holl/Liljegren etc will be any more than a complete waste of development.

In my view that either means 2 relatively cheap signings or a signing and a trade. Only two of Dermott, Holl, Sandin, Liljegren should be in the lineup.

This should also be the case if they keep Muzzin-Holl together and looked for a 1RD to play with Rielly. Then only one of Dermott, Sandin, Liljegren should be on the third pairing and the other D should be someone with the experience to help their development.

To add to this, Rielly's best season was with over-the-hill Hainsey.
 
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Fogelhund

Registered User
Sep 15, 2007
21,172
23,496
I actually agree, but I think it would be too highly scrutinized in a market like this.

I think we've gotten to the point, where the news cycle is becoming shorter and shorter, and peoples attention span the same. There would be outrage for a day, and then people would move on to the next outrage. It would be a solid hockey move, though I acknowledge the blow back PR issues. It would have to be packaged around some type of PR move, supporting women's shelters or something.
 
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Rielly4

Registered User
Dec 12, 2012
3,630
613
My vote is for Edmundson. Big, solid defesively, only 26. Shouldnt be too expensive. Could be that stabilizing presence that Rielly needs. Not sure how much he has played the right side?
I really like his game, really long guy who can skate and defends with his body and positioning. Really like his age too considering he already has a ton of experience as a solid defensive d i think he could blossom into a really good shutdown top 4 guy.
 

moon111

Registered User
Oct 18, 2014
2,890
1,283
Regarding the unsigned defensemen out there...
Think some think of Ceci as an older player because of his years in the NHL.
He's younger then Muzzin, Barrie, Holl, Marincin, Gravel, and only four months older then Rielly or Rosen. Dermott is only three years younger then him.
Also, he did contribute the most penalty-killing minutes on the team which is an often overlooked part of the game that doesn't get much fanfare.

Honestly I could possibly see him coming back if the price is right. And don't think he'll get his current salary elsewhere, but could be wrong.
 
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I am Canadian

AM34|WN88|MM16
May 22, 2008
6,428
2,375
Toronto
Rielly - Manson
Muzzin - Holl
Lehtonen - DeMelo
Dermott

Liljegren in a package for Manson

Sign Dermott 900k x 1 for prove it deal if he wants to stay in Toronto

DeMelo around 2M hopefully.

Johnsson & Kerfoot traded for prospects/picks (Keep Liljegren in the Manson deal if we can). Find a 3rd line C for around 3M.

The top pairing RHD isn't going to be solved in Free Agency. Time to pony up some of this forward depth for some solid defenders. We can't go into another year hoping that guys like Barrie are going to play adequate defense for us.

Close enough to squeezing in this team.

874b1bb59efa56752e2bf2f2dfba1dcb.png
 
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