Free Agency and Trades Thread: Post deadline wasteland

[Daisy Jane]

Usually get burnt after that 2nd contract with him though, trend is there. Bite the bullet and see what it takes.

Jones and Forsberg got 5.4M and 6M respectively.

Jones probably would have cost 6.5-7m for 8 years. 1.4M is nothing for a difference to me
Forsberg at 6M for 6 years or 6.75-7M for 8 years?. Same deal. another 750k-1M is nothing

Because Jones on his next deal is going to jump from 5.4M to 8-10M per and Forsberg will get probably 7-8M as a floor.

again, not really.
Crosby's didn't. Malkin's didn't. Stamkos didn't. (I mean it went up but it didn't smash the bank).

this situation is different is all i am saying. like look at Brisson's clients and how those contracts tend to shape up.

 

[WTFMAN99]

again, not really.
Crosby's didn't. Malkin's didn't. Stamkos didn't. (I mean it went up but it didn't smash the bank).

this situation is different is all i am saying. like look at Brisson's clients and how those contracts tend to shape up.

Only thing with Crosby and Malkin is that they are back diving illegal contracts, no different the Keith's contract. We can't do those kind of contracts anymore.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Only thing with Crosby and Malkin is that they are back diving illegal contracts, no different the Keith's contract. We can't do those kind of contracts anymore.

but again that doesn't matter.
okay. Until Matthews signs - i think the assumption should be how much money he's signing for 5 years. not 8. Why? the majority of Brisson's clients sign short second year contracts.

I'm not disputing that it's more beneficial to buy up UFA years for players of Matthews talent.
all i'm saying is

1: it's not bad asset management, because you're going to pay them whatever.
2: because of the agent, you can not assump it's $$$x8. it very well could be $$$$x5.

 

[WTFMAN99]

but again that doesn't matter.
okay. Until Matthews signs - i think the assumption should be how much money he's signing for 5 years. not 8. Why? the majority of Brisson's clients sign short second year contracts.

I'm not disputing that it's more beneficial to buy up UFA years for players of Matthews talent.
all i'm saying is

1: it's not bad asset management, because you're going to pay them whatever.
2: because of the agent, you can not assump it's $$$x8. it very well could be $$$$x5.

Leafs can also say we want 8 years, and he's RFA with no arbitration rights, so guess who wins there?

Leafs management isn't stupid. 8 years is the way to go, I have faith.

 

[Menzinger]

I can’t see Matthews (or his agent for that matter) turning down a contract of a guaranteed 80-92 million dollars.

 

[Barilko14]

so was it bad asset management for Pittsburgh
(Malkin + Crosby)

For Tampa
(Stamkos?)

i keep telling you. the agent for matthews if you look as his track record gets his superstars 5 year deals. i would be more shocked of Matthews signed for 8 vs. 5 due to that. and it's not a "bad" thing if he does. if we are trending upwards every season and manage our cap, it won't matter.

It certainly came close to biting TB in the ass.

If they weren't a legit contender, Stammer would have been gone.

Toews and Kane make 10.5 because they took 6 yr deals.

 

[Daisy Jane]

It certainly came close to biting TB in the ass.

If they weren't a legit contender, Stammer would have been gone.

right.
if they weren't. but they are.

quite frankly if we're hovering around islander territory in five years, quite frankly 3 extra years wouldn't change Matthews mind about staying

 

[Barilko14]

but again that doesn't matter.
okay. Until Matthews signs - i think the assumption should be how much money he's signing for 5 years. not 8. Why? the majority of Brisson's clients sign short second year contracts.

I'm not disputing that it's more beneficial to buy up UFA years for players of Matthews talent.
all i'm saying is

1: it's not bad asset management, because you're going to pay them whatever.
2: because of the agent, you can not assump it's $$$x8. it very well could be $$$$x5.

I would guarantee Leafs don' sign him to a 5 yr contract. I don't care what the trends say about Brisson.

Matthews would be signing for probably $14m per 5 years from now, and that will have the same effect on that Leaf team as Kucherov will in Tampa in a couple years.

 

[Barilko14]

but again that doesn't matter.
okay. Until Matthews signs - i think the assumption should be how much money he's signing for 5 years. not 8. Why? the majority of Brisson's clients sign short second year contracts.

I'm not disputing that it's more beneficial to buy up UFA years for players of Matthews talent.
all i'm saying is

1: it's not bad asset management, because you're going to pay them whatever.
2: because of the agent, you can not assump it's $$$x8. it very well could be $$$$x5.

We are a better situated team in the next 8 years with Matthews making $11m, instead of Matthews making $7m for 3 years, then $14m for 8 years.

 

[WTFMAN99]

We are a better situated team in the next 8 years with Matthews making $11m, instead of Matthews making $7m for 3 years, then $14m for 8 years.

100% and management knows it.

 

[Barilko14]

right.
if they weren't. but they are.

quite frankly if we're hovering around islander territory in five years, quite frankly 3 extra years wouldn't change Matthews mind about staying

We can also have a one off shitty season (TB last year) that same season, and Matthews walks off the Arizona.

 

[Daisy Jane]

We can also have a one off ****ty season (TB last year) that same season, and Matthews walks off the Arizona.

well if he is making that decision based off one bad year then one would wonder how committed he was to toronto, right?

 

[Barilko14]

well if he is making that decision based off one bad year then one would wonder how committed he was to toronto, right?

Yes we would, best to avoid the situation all together then. Right?

 

[Buds17]

well if he is making that decision based off one bad year then one would wonder how committed he was to toronto, right?

That's fair. I think we'd want to go full term with our 1C though, unless we felt injuries were a concern, or something like that. You're right that it's entirely possible he/his agent may have other ideas. I'd guess we also would ideally like Matthews/Marner/Nylander to have contracts that are up for renewal again all in different years.

 

[WTFMAN99]

That's fair. I think we'd want to go full term with our 1C though, unless we felt injuries were a concern, or something like that. You're right that it's entirely possible he/his agent may have other ideas. I'd guess we also would ideally like Matthews/Marner/Nylander to have contracts that are up for renewal again all in different years.

After going for like what? 15 years without a 1C I am all about locking up our 1C as long as possible. I am risk adverse in that regard.

 

[Buds17]

After going for like what? 15 years without a 1C I am all about locking up our 1C as long as possible. I am risk adverse in that regard.

Agreed. Likely future captain and great two-way player. Well represents the direction the team wants to go. I hope both sides would want to go the full term. He's one of a select group where that makes plenty of sense.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Agreed. Likely future captain and great two-way player. Well represents the direction the team wants to go. I hope both sides would want to go the full term. He's one of a select group where that makes plenty of sense.

Every team seems to go max term now on it's young guys.

 

[Buds17]

Every team seems to go max term now on it's young guys.

Yeah, total brainfart on my part.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Yes we would, best to avoid the situation all together then. Right?

no. I've been consistent on this.

If i were Stamkos, Tavares, Crosby, etc, I don't blame them for doing 5 year deals. You were the 1st overall pick, which means your team was crap- you're good (or really good, or best in the sport good), and quite frankly, you should be making moves to ensure YOU are good so I commit to that.

McDavid signs for 8 years right off the hop, Edmonton is bad. the GM (which is different from several GMs) is still making dumbo decisions, and even if you want to consider "one bad year" I'm side-eyeing talbot and wondering if he's truly a #1 goalie or just had a v. good year. they aren't stable. and i'm side eyeing management to see if it's yet another change

Eichel signs for 8 years and Buffalo still can't even get close to a wild card spot.

i wouldn't blame Matthews wanting to see if we still made good decisions and trend up every year. and if we are then extend for like until he retires the end. if we were and in the last year we had a crap season like tampa (so basically everyone got injured), and matthews wanted to leave then, then he wasn't that committed, and it wouldn't make a difference if it was five or eight.

 

[Barilko14]

no. I've been consistent on this.

If i were Stamkos, Tavares, Crosby, etc, I don't blame them for doing 5 year deals. You were the 1st overall pick, which means your team was crap- you're good (or really good, or best in the sport good), and quite frankly, you should be making moves to ensure YOU are good so I commit to that.

McDavid signs for 8 years right off the hop, Edmonton is bad. the GM (which is different from several GMs) is still making dumbo decisions, and even if you want to consider "one bad year" I'm side-eyeing talbot and wondering if he's truly a #1 goalie or just had a v. good year. they aren't stable. and i'm side eyeing management to see if it's yet another change

Eichel signs for 8 years and Buffalo still can't even get close to a wild card spot.

i wouldn't blame Matthews wanting to see if we still made good decisions and trend up every year. and if we are then extend for like until he retires the end. if we were and in the last year we had a crap season like tampa (so basically everyone got injured), and matthews wanted to leave then, then he wasn't that committed, and it wouldn't make a difference if it was five or eight.

You eluded to the PA in another post. This group of 4 is the best group of young players to break into the league since Crosby, Malkin, and Ovi.

So they would be getting major pressure from the PA to move the buck forward. I think this plays a bigger factor then people think.

McDavid and Eichel got their big $$, now it's Laine and Matthews turn.

If we are talking about trends, this is the way the league is going now.

I don't think you should bother looking at contracts signed ~10 years ago as comparables, there is more than enough recent evidence to show 8 yr deal is way more likely.

 

[ToneDog]

Yeah Hawks have 10.5 tied up in Toews and Kane and are dealing with cap issues. They are on a dip now but if you look at the big picture they all have 3 shinny rings on their fingers. The only ring I have seen in the past 50 years belonged to a Hobbit.

Teams don't suffer by paying stars big bucks unless said star under performs. Teams encounter cap problems when they pay average to above average players $6-9m and have to pay if they want to dump those contracts.

 

[gabeliscious]

Yeah Hawks have 10.5 tied up in Toews and Kane and are dealing with cap issues. They are on a dip now but if you look at the big picture they all have 3 shinny rings on their fingers. The only ring I have seen in the past 50 years belonged to a Hobbit.

Teams don't suffer by paying stars big bucks unless said star under performs. Teams encounter cap problems when they pay average to above average players $6-9m and have to pay if they want to dump those contracts.

so someone like marleau for example?

 

[ToneDog]

so someone like marleau for example?

Yes, somebody like Marleau but in defence of the Leafs they are paying him to also mentor the kids and only for 2 years if they can dump the third year. JVR at 6+, Oshie, Okposo, RNH, Draisaitl, Clarkson at the time, Horton at the time, Lupul at the time, Phaneuf are better examples. Lou does not seem to be the tyoe of GM that makes these mistakes.

 

[Daisy Jane]

You eluded to the PA in another post. This group of 4 is the best group of young players to break into the league since Crosby, Malkin, and Ovi.

So they would be getting major pressure from the PA to move the buck forward. I think this plays a bigger factor then people think.

McDavid and Eichel got their big $$, now it's Laine and Matthews turn.

If we are talking about trends, this is the way the league is going now.

I don't think you should bother looking at contracts signed ~10 years ago as comparables, there is more than enough recent evidence to show 8 yr deal is way more likely.

okay. and there's enough evidence regarding Brisson how his MO is.
I acknowledged that Matthews is (as far as I know) Brisson's first client in this era of just "pay everyone their money". I'm just saying - i personally wouldn't be surprised if he takes more money less years, because everyone else he's had had lots of money (considering) for less years. never once did I say I would pay Matthews peanuts or less than he was worth. I'm saying his second contract may not be as long as people hope it will be.

 

[aingefan]

To a hobbit....
Gold.