Value of: Frederik Andersen

[Tit]

What elite young goalies did they trade away?

Well Rask for one.
We also have traded several draft picks that turned out to be pretty good goalies.
Luongo and Gibson come to mind.
Not saying they would've drafted them, but the opportunity was there.

And that's not even diving into history, I'm sure there is more.
The leafs have a history of trading FOR goalies as well, which has rarely worked out.
Bernier for a recent example.

Andersen is the first goalie since probably Belfour that has stabilized the position.
I don't care what the market dictates is fair, the leafs are and will continue to be in a cap crunch.
6-7M might not seem like a huge amount of money, but when you don't have many elite defenders signed after this season it certainly seems like a lot to fit in.

 

[abo9]

Andersen did have a rough night yesterday
As for the OP, Bob and Price created a 3.5M gap between them and Fleury, who's currently the third highest paid goalie. I believe Andersen will fit nicely in the 8-9M range.​

 

[Burke the Legend]

Neither have quite the hardware Braden Holtby does how should he be paid?

Holtby & Bobrovsky are current top 5 goalies and have a longer body of work with multiple standout statistical seasons including and also some nice hardware. Anderssen has a shorter record and has never had a single big statistical year, his stats are basically average (unlike say Vasilevsky). He's not a top 5 goalie (or top 10) and shouldn't be paid like one, but the Leafs might have a problem because of the Dubas payscales. Probably they should just let him walk if he demands big bucks and then find some decent enough goaltending solution on the market.

 

[darkwingduck]

Andersen has a big body and is great positionally, but doesn't have a killer's attitude nor elite* athleticism to put him in the top top echelon of goaltenders.

This seems also to be the counter effect that Toronto has, they have so many good players that it makes everyone look good, so in trades everyone has maximum value, but in re-signing they also cost a lot. Will be interesting to see how it plays out.

 

[Suntouchable13]

I'm talking about fans calling the team a "contender" despite them never having won a playoff round.

I'm talking about fans pretending Auston Matthews is a top two or three player in the league and him being paid as such.

I'm talking about fans asking if the Maple Leafs power play was going to be the "best ever in the history of the league."

I'm talking about fans claiming last season that Rielly was having a Norris Trophy season and Andersen would be nominated for a Vezina.

Just look at these boards, there's a long history of some Maple Leaf fans lauding accolades and credit on the team for things they simply haven't achieved yet.

Andersen was never "nominated" for the Vezina but he came darn close last season. Wasn't he 4th in voting which is right on the cusp of top 3? Rielly was having a Norris trophy type season last year. He also came very close to the top 3. You know, there could be more than just 1 or 2 Dman having Norris trophy type years, right?

EDIT: Actually, I was misremembering about Freddy. He was 10th in voting. Sorry.

 

[Torontoborn]

Well Rask for one.
We also have traded several draft picks that turned out to be pretty good goalies.
Luongo and Gibson come to mind.
Not saying they would've drafted them, but the opportunity was there.

And that's not even diving into history, I'm sure there is more.
The leafs have a history of trading FOR goalies as well, which has rarely worked out.
Bernier for a recent example.

Andersen is the first goalie since probably Belfour that has stabilized the position.
I don't care what the market dictates is fair, the leafs are and will continue to be in a cap crunch.
6-7M might not seem like a huge amount of money, but when you don't have many elite defenders signed after this season it certainly seems like a lot to fit in.

Oh yeah the Leafs are the only team in history to have traded away draft picks that turned out to be a bonafide player. Give your head a shake dude!

 

[Torontoborn]

I'm talking about fans calling the team a "contender" despite them never having won a playoff round.

I'm talking about fans pretending Auston Matthews is a top two or three player in the league and him being paid as such.

I'm talking about fans asking if the Maple Leafs power play was going to be the "best ever in the history of the league."

I'm talking about fans claiming last season that Rielly was having a Norris Trophy season and Andersen would be nominated for a Vezina.

Just look at these boards, there's a long history of some Maple Leaf fans lauding accolades and credit on the team for things they simply haven't achieved yet.

you sound real angry there!

 

[WetcoastOrca]

I really don’t see the Leafs as having much of a choice here. They pretty much need to re-sign Andersen. Every team has a promising prospect in the minors but very few pan out to be elite starters. So unless they can make a trade in a couple of years they will need Andersen.

 

[Legion34]

Andersen was never "nominated" for the Vezina but he came darn close last season. Wasn't he 4th in voting which is right on the cusp of top 3? Rielly was having a Norris trophy type season last year. He also came very close to the top 3. You know, there could be more than just 1 or 2 Dman having Norris trophy type years, right?

EDIT: Actually, I was misremembering about Freddy. He was 10th in voting. Sorry.

I think he was 4th the year before?

 

[Tit]

Oh yeah the Leafs are the only team in history to have traded away draft picks that turned out to be a bonafide player. Give your head a shake dude!

I never said we were?
But I'd say the leafs are the most notable culprits.

Let me know when you come up with a team that's traded away a goalie like Tuuka Rask before he ever played an NHL game...I'll wait...

And don't tell me we didn't know Tuuka was good at the time. he was the best goalie at the world juniors by a long shot and the only explanation for trading him is pure ignorance and stupidity.

Plenty of goalie prospects don't make it. But wouldn't you rather have more eggs in the basket rather than trading that for 1 good season from Andrew Raycroft?

I will sit here and wait for a worse trade example.

 

[bobholly39]

Hadn't considered this - but I think Leafs need to definitely move on from him. They need to start developing a plan B. I'm not familiar with Woll who OP mentions, but if he's a really solid prospect who can take over as #1 that's good, if not try and find or trade for some other prospect.

It's not that Andersen is bad, he isn't and has been great. I just think based on how their cap/team is structured and how much money they have tied up in forwards - it doesn't make sense to also be a team who pays top $$ for a goalie (like Montreal, or Florida, or others). It's possible to win at the NHL level by not paying top $$ to goalies - and that's what TOR should plan for

 

[Legion34]

Andersen was never "nominated" for the Vezina but he came darn close last season. Wasn't he 4th in voting which is right on the cusp of top 3? Rielly was having a Norris trophy type season last year. He also came very close to the top 3. You know, there could be more than just 1 or 2 Dman having Norris trophy type years, right?

EDIT: Actually, I was misremembering about Freddy. He was 10th in voting. Sorry.

He was 4th the year before. He was 10th last year and was the favourite with Gibson for most of the year until both fell off.

 

[TheDoldrums]

Hadn't considered this - but I think Leafs need to definitely move on from him. They need to start developing a plan B. I'm not familiar with Woll who OP mentions, but if he's a really solid prospect who can take over as #1 that's good, if not try and find or trade for some other prospect.

It's not that Andersen is bad, he isn't and has been great. I just think based on how their cap/team is structured and how much money they have tied up in forwards - it doesn't make sense to also be a team who pays top $$ for a goalie (like Montreal, or Florida, or others). It's possible to win at the NHL level by not paying top $$ to goalies - and that's what TOR should plan for

Woll hasn't played a pro hockey game yet, he's not close. The Leafs have two solid prospects in Woll and Ian Scott, both probably in the top ~20 at least for goalie prospects. But they need time to develop.

The Leafs will need a short-term bridge from Freddie to hopefully one of Woll or Scott eventually taking over. I'd like to see them do something like the Hurricanes, get a couple of cheaper reclamation projects and do more of a 1A/1B situation unless someone runs away with it.

 

[bobholly39]

Woll hasn't played a pro hockey game yet, he's not close. The Leafs have two solid prospects in Woll and Ian Scott, both probably in the top ~20 at least for goalie prospects. But they need time to develop.

The Leafs will need a short-term bridge from Freddie to hopefully one of Woll or Scott eventually taking over. I'd like to see them do something like the Hurricanes, get a couple of cheaper reclamation projects and do more of a 1A/1B situation unless someone runs away with it.

The problem with this is - if i'm Andersen i don't want a bridge deal at all. I ask for an 8 year deal similar to Price and Bob. Maybe he doesn't get as much as they did - but he can likely do better than a bridge deal. Obviously a short term deal would be great for the Leafs - I just don't think Andersen would be making a smart business decision in not maximizing what is likely to be his last big contract. He should want top $$ and term if he's smart.

 

[TheDoldrums]

The problem with this is - if i'm Andersen i don't want a bridge deal at all. I ask for an 8 year deal similar to Price and Bob. Maybe he doesn't get as much as they did - but he can likely do better than a bridge deal. Obviously a short term deal would be great for the Leafs - I just don't think Andersen would be making a smart business decision in not maximizing what is likely to be his last big contract. He should want top $$ and term if he's smart.

By "short term bridge" I meant another goalie(s) in between Freddie's tenure and their prospects taking over. I agree he is going to get a big long-term deal.

 

[GirardSpinorama]

Hadn't considered this - but I think Leafs need to definitely move on from him. They need to start developing a plan B. I'm not familiar with Woll who OP mentions, but if he's a really solid prospect who can take over as #1 that's good, if not try and find or trade for some other prospect.

It's not that Andersen is bad, he isn't and has been great. I just think based on how their cap/team is structured and how much money they have tied up in forwards - it doesn't make sense to also be a team who pays top $$ for a goalie (like Montreal, or Florida, or others). It's possible to win at the NHL level by not paying top $$ to goalies - and that's what TOR should plan for

They should have dedicated more resources/cap to this position. A run and gun team without good defensive dmen or shut down forwards need to have goalies that can make up for it.

 

[justafan22]

They should have dedicated more resources/cap to this position. A run and gun team without good defensive dmen or shut down forwards need to have goalies that can make up for it.

If Andersen leaves they'll likely sign a Halak type to pair with a prospect.

 

[McSuper]

Need to resign him regardless.
3 x 4+ are Tripod said is fair.
It's my opinion he is not in the upper echelon of goalies.
It's too bad Burke traded that 2nd round pick for a bag of hammers, or we'd be rolling with John Gibson, an elite goalie.

Organizationally the Goalie position is suspect to say the least. I'm not convinced Woll or anyone else has a chance at being an elite goalie.

Problem with that is you don't know if would even have chosen a goalie . Then there the development . How do you know he would of became as good as he is in an organization ? He may have a great working relationship with the Ducks goalie coach . Lots of factor to consider . It not as simple as you make it out to be .

 

[Halla]

He sees his GM give out whatever the **** players want, so why shouldn't he ask for the big bucks?

because he will be playing for a new team. he isnt a home grown 21 year old that the leafs wanted to lock up long term. He will be 33

 

[Halla]

Yeah but only Toronto is dumb enough to trade away elite young goalies.

talking about Rask 13 years ago?

philly traded bobrovsky. Ottawa traded Bishop. Binnington was waived a year ago.....

 

[Halla]

Oh man, if I'm Freddy I run this one all the way to the bank. Hes probably going to be the 2nd best UFA goalie expiring in 2021. The one thing the Leafs have going for them is that theres a lot of goalies expiring. Maybe they can finally sign Rask.

yeah, this would be running to a bottom feeder like detroit, LA, etc
Max I see the leafs offering is 7mil (Rask $$$). Would make him the 4th highest in the league.
If he wants Price/Bob money as a tneder that has never won a vezina, it won't be in TO.

Rask, Binnington, Dubnyk, Raanta, Grubaeur, Mrazek, Rittich... pretty good year to be in the market for a goalie.
As a leaf fan I'd have no problem with Dubnyk for 2-3 years

 

[FerrisRox]

He also came very close to the top 3. You know, there could be more than just 1 or 2 Dman having Norris trophy type years, right?

Sure... the three guys that are nominated for the Norris Trophy. Which one was he?

 

[FerrisRox]

you sound real angry there!

Angry? Not even close. I find it hilarious.

 

[Tit]

talking about Rask 13 years ago?

philly traded bobrovsky. Ottawa traded Bishop. Binnington was waived a year ago.....

It happens, but for the most part the examples you cited weren't high draft pick elite prospects like Rask.
More often then not Goalies become late bloomers much like Binnington. Who was never considered to be an elite goalie and struggled until he was 25. Rask was elite as a teenager and dominated the world juniors. Bob was never drafted and didn't become elite until his mid 20s as well. Elite young goalies like Rask were hard to come by. It would've been unthinkable for MTL to trade Price before he played a game. That's basically what the leafs did for an inferior Andrew Raycroft.

Scouts often get it wrong, that's not what I was saying. Of course people trade goalies then hit lightning in a bottle. But Rask was already elite. That's the issue.

Edit: a more realistic comparable would be Giguere

 

[Crazy8oooo]

Need to resign him regardless.
3 x 4+ are Tripod said is fair.
It's my opinion he is not in the upper echelon of goalies.
It's too bad Burke traded that 2nd round pick for a bag of hammers, or we'd be rolling with John Gibson, an elite goalie.

Organizationally the Goalie position is suspect to say the least. I'm not convinced Woll or anyone else has a chance at being an elite goalie.

Are you suggesting he will get paid in the 4 million range? If so, I don't see any chance of that happening. He's going to get paid...not Bobrovsky money, but I'd think he's in the 6 million area. And I don't think you're rating him high enough...he's a very good goalie.