Franchise level players

[coladin]

They were just a really bad matchup for us. I though Detroit deserved the serious in the WCF, they matched up better than we did against Anaheim and that series could have easily been a Det win in 6. We would have matched up much better against Detroit. Anaheim was a great team, but I still feel their reputation was a bit inflated.

I think whereas the first three rounds the refs did a good job with the "not holding forecheckers up" rule, obstruction was rampant in the Finals and Ottawa could not get around it.

 

[Stylizer1]

Lots of time left in Karlsson's career to change opinions. Alfredsson was never seen as a Franchise player until his 30's. Chara solidified his case in his early 30's too. That's trouble with labeling guys franchise players or not while they still have half their career left to play.

And I think this part of the reason Alfie is not in the hall of fame. His amazing play came in the middle of his career when paired with certain players. Before and after that time he was a borderline all-star. Still a really important player for us though.

 

[Cosmix]

Let's just say there are a lot of stories about Sens players partying especially hard between the ECF and the SCF that year.

However, Anaheim was just outright better: they had the shutdown capabilities and the depth to run us into the ground. I can't imagine a scénario where we beat them 4 times in a series.

That was such a painful series to watch...

I recall that many posters were saying Anaheim was the bigger tougher team. When I checked the roster data, the Senators were taller and heavier. Anaheim played bigger than they were and the Senators played smaller than they were. Soft players. Plus I think the Senators either had injuries or simply ran out of gas (poor conditioning) versus Anaheim. Perhaps motivation was also an issue.

 

[JD1]

Stone was a top 5 forward last year, 6 players have had career bests that played with him. He is a very similar player to Alfie he just got to being elite faster. He is only 26 for some strange reason people think that is old around here.

Hossa is the same, just terrible blunders by this franchise. Hossa is also going to the hall of fame

Chara is going to go down of one of the best defensemen if all time. He is still playing and certainly a franchise player. First ballot hall of famer.

Muckler and Dorion will be best known for giving away these franchise players when their legacy subsides in regards to this franchise.

I'll disagree with you on Hossa. His career success was achieved tucked in behind franchise players. I do agree though that he will end up in the hall

 

[bert]

I'll disagree with you on Hossa. His career success was achieved tucked in behind franchise players. I do agree though that he will end up in the hall

He was the best player on the sens in 2003, they win game 7 they win the cup and he likely gets the conn smyth. He almost won the rocket richard trophy that year and was one of the best two way players of his era. He was a key kog on many teams that had deep drives he was a franchise player no doubt.

 

[JD1]

He was the best player on the sens in 2003, they win game 7 they win the cup and he likely gets the conn smyth. He almost won the rocket richard trophy that year and was one of the best two way players of his era. He was a key kog on many teams that had deep drives he was a franchise player no doubt.

How many of those series did we win Bert? Reality is those teams, those years were hard to stomach

Hossa's years of having playoff success he was tucked in behind supporting other bigger name players.

See it any way you like. That's how I see and have for 15 years.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Lots of time left in Karlsson's career to change opinions. Alfredsson was never seen as a Franchise player until his 30's. Chara solidified his case in his early 30's too. That's trouble with labeling guys franchise players or not while they still have half their career left to play.

I don't like labels you ... you... labeler

 

[Do Make Say Think]

How many of those series did we win Bert? Reality is those teams, those years were hard to stomach

Hossa's years of having playoff success he was tucked in behind supporting other bigger name players.

See it any way you like. That's how I see and have for 15 years.

Hossa is an elite winger. It isn't a coincidence that the Hawks had a hell of a time after he retired.

Who gives a flying **** where he was slotted? The guy was a goal-scoring machine two-way beast for the entirety of his career.

 

[Stylizer1]

Hossa is an elite winger. It isn't a coincidence that the Hawks had a hell of a time after he retired.

Who gives a flying **** where he was slotted? The guy was a goal-scoring machine two-way beast for the entirety of his career.

Who gets into the hall first Hossa or Alfredsson?

 

[Sens]

Hosea for sure

 

[Sens]

I once watched Hosea in the corners on the boards with three defenders draped on him... do some ridiculous spin, kept the puck, lose the defenders somehow and then deke a defender in front of him before putting on a move on the goalie and scoring a goal

 

[Sens]

Hosea was a 40+G threat at the height of the dead puck era

 

[JD1]

Hossa is an elite winger. It isn't a coincidence that the Hawks had a hell of a time after he retired.

Who gives a flying **** where he was slotted? The guy was a goal-scoring machine two-way beast for the entirety of his career.

The Hawks demise from a powerhouse may also have had a lot to do with toews regressing, keith no longer playing at norris levels and seabrook regressing to bottom pair level performance

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Who gets into the hall first Hossa or Alfredsson?

Hossa, it isn't even close.

Hossa has three Cup Rings! THREE!

 

[Muuri]

Hate to be one having to point this out but if we are speaking in terms of pure talent, there was a player who scored 44 goals and 94 points in mids of dead puck era.

Not saying Jashin was a franchise player, because he obviously wasnt. Just though his name also should be mentioned when talking about the most talented players this team has had.

 

[thinkwild]

Yashins 94 point season was one heckuva season, 2nd and 3rd place Sens scoring i think were his line mates Dackell and McEachern in the 50 pt range. But Heatley eclipsed him with two 50 goal, 100 pt seasons. Both went downhill pretty fast after their peaks here.

 

[trentmccleary]

And I think this part of the reason Alfie is not in the hall of fame. His amazing play came in the middle of his career when paired with certain players. Before and after that time he was a borderline all-star. Still a really important player for us though.

Alfredsson was hands down a Franchise player.

PPG Ranks among NHL forwards (Min. 41GP/82 or 24GP/48)

Alfie	Hossa	Spezza	Yashin	Heatley	Duchene	Stone
3	8	4	9	6	13	14
4	9	5	14	6	28	30
8	14	6	16	8	33	36
12	15	6	28	10	35	38
15	17	20	29	19	39	39
15	22	23	35	40	74
16	27	23	40	43	75
23	27	26	44	50	87
24	31	35	49	99	142
27	35	45	54	115	161
33	42	49	57	222
37	43	51	78
51	47	242
66	54	265
79	67
107	105
128	139
148	145

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

The CASH Line years are in bold and isolated below. Craig Hartsburg ruined 2009 and Alfredsson was rarely on the line in 2007 beyond PP and the stretch that Spezza was injured.

Year	Alfie	Heatley	Spezza
2006	3	6	4
2007	15	6	5
2008	4	10	6
2009	27	40	35

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[Muuri]

From what I have undestod and read, I think Heatley was much more dynamic and versatile player pre-2003. His skating never recovered to the level it was.

 

[bert]

How many of those series did we win Bert? Reality is those teams, those years were hard to stomach

Hossa's years of having playoff success he was tucked in behind supporting other bigger name players.

See it any way you like. That's how I see and have for 15 years.

Those years were hard to stomach?..... They were an exciting up and coming team who got better every year and competed for the division with real stanley cup aspirations. If you didnt like those teams how do you feel about the team now? This stuff that you come up with is so outrageous.

They won 2 series and almost won a third that season againt a dynasty level franchise after winning the presidents trophy. Hossa lead the sens in scoring when they were a shot away from the SCF. That is playoff success, its been evident to me for quite some time you simply dont have the ability to identify with this sport. You constantly support players that cant play in the league after their tenior in Ottawa and put down players that continue to achieve success.

 

[Sens]

Those Sens teams were awesome... 98-07 was amazing to be a fan... the team the Sens were back then and on a budget was simply incredible

They could beat you anyway you wanted
- Out run n gun you
- out trap you
- out hit you

They would literally go into other teams barns and do what that team did better then them lol

 

[JD1]

Those years were hard to stomach?..... They were an exciting up and coming team who got better every year and competed for the division with real stanley cup aspirations. If you didnt like those teams how do you feel about the team now? This stuff that you come up with is so outrageous.

They won 2 series and almost won a third that season againt a dynasty level franchise after winning the presidents trophy. Hossa lead the sens in scoring when they were a shot away from the SCF. That is playoff success, its been evident to me for quite some time you simply dont have the ability to identify with this sport. You constantly support players that cant play in the league after their tenior in Ottawa and put down players that continue to achieve success.

You're always big on the insults Bert. Why? Why can't you make a point without resorting to the need to insult? You might want to Google that....figure it out....get some help maybe

I was referring to the playoff losses....4 years to the Leafs....that was difficult .... and Hossa just never got it done here....never got us over the hump...never was able to beat up the bully....that's not my opinion Bert....thats how it actually happened. I have a less favourable opinion of Hossa because of it.

 

[bert]

You're always big on the insults Bert. Why? Why can't you make a point without resorting to the need to insult? You might want to Google that....figure it out....get some help maybe

I was referring to the playoff losses....4 years to the Leafs....that was difficult .... and Hossa just never got it done here....never got us over the hump...never was able to beat up the bully....that's not my opinion Bert....thats how it actually happened. I have a less favourable opinion of Hossa because of it.

Selective reasoning to try and prove a falacy. Hossa lead the team in scoring 3 times out of 6 playoffs in Ottawa in which they made it every season he played on the team. He finished second two more times he was first the last two times they made the playoffs, before he was traded at 25 years old. In 2003 he had 16 points in 18 games 5 more than the next highest player. He was literally the best player they had over that entire period of time, maybe someone else should have stepped up? Blaming him is either proving my point in my previous post, or you didnt watch, or have a selective memory. As he was hitting his prime he was getting better and better, he lead the team in scoring in both 02/03 and 03/04. He has 149 career playoff points, he has 3 cups, 5 final appearances went to 7 conference finals. All this while playing selke level defense. Scott Stevens is literally quoted saying that sens team they beat in 03 was one of if not the best teams they beat and he specifically talks about Hossa being a hand full. In game 6 against the Devils Hossa had 7 shots and created Phillips O.T goal by burning Scott Niedermayer. He stepped up against the big boys.

 

[JD1]

Selective reasoning to try and prove a falacy. Hossa lead the team in scoring 3 times out of 6 playoffs in Ottawa in which they made it every season he played on the team. He finished second two more times he was first the last two times they made the playoffs, before he was traded at 25 years old. In 2003 he had 16 points in 18 games 5 more than the next highest player. He was literally the best player they had over that entire period of time, maybe someone else should have stepped up? Blaming him is either proving my point in my previous post, or you didnt watch, or have a selective memory. As he was hitting his prime he was getting better and better, he lead the team in scoring in both 02/03 and 03/04. He has 149 career playoff points, he has 3 cups, 5 final appearances went to 7 conference finals. All this while playing selke level defense. Scott Stevens is literally quoted saying that sens team they beat in 03 was one of if not the best teams they beat and he specifically talks about Hossa being a hand full. In game 6 against the Devils Hossa had 7 shots and created Phillips O.T goal by burning Scott Niedermayer. He stepped up against the big boys.

selective reasoning....you're funny Bert

98 99 we lost to the Sabres in 4 straight and Hossa had two points

99 00 we lost to the Leafs in 6 games and Hossa had zero points

00 01 we lost to the Leafs in 4 games and Hossa had 2 points

In 01 02 we won the quarters and lost to the Leafs in 7. Hossa had 10 points in 12 games.

In 02 03 we went to the ECF and Hossa had 16 points in 18 games.

In 03 04 we lost to the leafs in 7. Again. Hossa had 4 points in 7 games.

Now how are you with counting Bert? By my count, in a Sens unit Hossa played 51 playoff games, he had 34 points and scored only 13 goals.

His best year in the playoffs for us was the ECF year where he had 16 points in 18 games. We didn't play the Leafs that year.

The 4 years we lost to the Leafs he was part of the crew that didn't get it done. Alfie took a lot of criticism in those days. Was it Craig Conroy there were rumours about a trade for? Alfie redeemed himself post lockout with some spectacular years and a cup final.

So don't tell me I have a selective memory Bert. Ottawa fans had to wear paper bags over their heads for 5 years because of those Leaf losses. They were devastating losses. And Hossa was a guy that didn't get it done those years.

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

Karlsson was amazing during the run to ECF but not sure why people are still claiming he "carried" the team. It was a collective effort. Everyone had their moments its just Karlsson was the biggest standout but that doesn't mean he single handedly carried the team to 1 goal within the SCF

 

[bert]

selective reasoning....you're funny Bert

98 99 we lost to the Sabres in 4 straight and Hossa had two points

99 00 we lost to the Leafs in 6 games and Hossa had zero points

00 01 we lost to the Leafs in 4 games and Hossa had 2 points

In 01 02 we won the quarters and lost to the Leafs in 7. Hossa had 10 points in 12 games.

In 02 03 we went to the ECF and Hossa had 16 points in 18 games.

In 03 04 we lost to the leafs in 7. Again. Hossa had 4 points in 7 games.

Now how are you with counting Bert? By my count, in a Sens unit Hossa played 51 playoff games, he had 34 points and scored only 13 goals.

His best year in the playoffs for us was the ECF year where he had 16 points in 18 games. We didn't play the Leafs that year.

The 4 years we lost to the Leafs he was part of the crew that didn't get it done. Alfie took a lot of criticism in those days. Was it Craig Conroy there were rumours about a trade for? Alfie redeemed himself post lockout with some spectacular years and a cup final.

So don't tell me I have a selective memory Bert. Ottawa fans had to wear paper bags over their heads for 5 years because of those Leaf losses. They were devastating losses. And Hossa was a guy that didn't get it done those years.

Doesnt change the fact that he was the teams best player through that period and you are blaming him for the teams short comings. Another terrible take. I counted just fine he lead the team in scoring over that period. What was that weak attempt at calling me out anyways? I cant count? You made up a fake context. Thats the best you've got? He went on to be an incredible playoff performer, all the signs were there. They gave up on him way too early.

It appears by that breakdown you have an unhealthy ubsession with the leafs. Are you trying to argue they were a better team than the 03 devils?.... You once again fall short on your argument, taking on a hall of fame player. Keep choosing your battles wisely baha.