Franchise Greatest Players

Discussion in 'The History of Hockey' started by Ogopogo*, Jul 15, 2005.

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  1. Ogopogo*

    Ogopogo* Guest

    Who is the greatest player for each NHL franchise? IMO, these are the "golden 30" that have the greatest accomplishments for each team.

    New Jersey Devils - Martin Brodeur
    New York Islanders - Bryan Trottier
    New York Rangers - Andy Bathgate
    Philadelphia Flyers - Bobby Clarke
    Pittsburgh Penguins - Mario Lemieux

    Boston Bruins - Bobby Orr
    Buffalo Sabres - Dominik Hasek
    Montreal Canadiens - Jean Beliveau
    Ottawa Senators - Cy Denneny (modern day: Alexei Yashin)
    Toronto Maple Leafs - Frank Mahovlich

    Atlanta Thrashers - Ilya Kovalchuk
    Carolina Hurricanes - Ron Francis
    Florida Panthers - Pavel Bure
    Tampa Bay Lightning - Martin St. Louis
    Washington Capitals - Rod Langway

    Chicago Blackhawks - Bobby Hull
    Columbus Blue Jackets - Rick Nash
    Detroit Red Wings - Gordie Howe
    Nashville Predators - No greats yet
    St. Louis Blues - Brett Hull

    Calgary Flames - Al MacInnis
    Colorado Avalanche - Patrick Roy
    Edmonton Oilers - Wayne Gretzky
    Minnesota Wild - No greats yet
    Vancouver Canucks - Markus Naslund

    Anaheim Ducks - Paul Kariya
    Dallas Stars - Ed Belfour
    Los Angeles Kings - Wayne Gretzky
    Phoenix Coyotes - Dale Hawerchuk
    San Jose Sharks - Evgeni Nabokov


    Thoughts?
     
    Last edited by moderator : Jul 18, 2005
  2. Luigi Lemieux

    Luigi Lemieux Registered User

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    you say nashville doesn't have any greats yet consider dwayne roloson one?
     
  3. Ogopogo*

    Ogopogo* Guest

    Roloson has been in the top 7 vote getters for the Vezina trophy two years in a row. That is a great accomplishment. Granted, that does not put him in the top 50 goalies of all time but, it is a modest amount of greatness.
     
  4. canucksfan

    canucksfan Registered User

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    Montreal I would say Richard instead of Beliveau.
     
  5. sparr0w

    sparr0w Registered User

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    Modano over Belfour. *enter "he's not great he's only been hanging around padding his stats with slightly above average seasons" argument*
     
  6. Luigi Lemieux

    Luigi Lemieux Registered User

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    then why not include world cup goalie and nhl all star tomas vokoun for the preds?
     
  7. Lapps

    Lapps Registered User

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    I'd say Kimmo Timonen, Tomas Vokoun, or Scott Walker have been the best Predator -- they're not "great" but they're the faces of that franchise. Also, I'd say Modano is arguably a better Star than Belfour.
     
  8. kmad

    kmad riot survivor

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    Vancouver Canucks: Pavel Bure over Markus Naslund
    New York Rangers: Mark Messier over Andy Bathgate
    Ottawa Senators (modern day): Daniel Alfredsson (Chara has only been a star player for one year)
    Calgary Flames: Lanny McDonald over Al MacInnis (they even modeled their new team logo after him)
    Dallas Stars: Mike Modano over Ed Belfour
    San Jose Sharks: Owen Nolan over Evgeni Nabokov

    and I think Steve Yzerman might give Gordie a run for his money.
     
  9. Ogopogo*

    Ogopogo* Guest

    All Star game doesn't constitute greatness as you know, Dark. Post season all star and he would be on the list.
     
  10. Ogopogo*

    Ogopogo* Guest

    LOL. ;)
     
  11. kmad

    kmad riot survivor

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    you think an absence of a superstar has done more for Nashville than Vokoun has?
     
  12. SingnBluesOnBroadway

    SingnBluesOnBroadway Retired

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    Bathgate certainly doesn't belong to be mentioned ahead of Brian Leetch, Mark Messier, Mike Richter, Rod Gilbert or Eddie Giacomin.
     
  13. Ogopogo*

    Ogopogo* Guest

    Interesting thoughts.
     
  14. Ogopogo*

    Ogopogo* Guest

    I think Vokoun is a very good goalie, he just hasn't achieved greatness yet. Perhaps this is his year in 2005-06?
     
  15. kmad

    kmad riot survivor

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    I just don't see how you figure Vezina candidate makes Roloson a superstar, but Vokoun's world cup goalie and all star selection don't

    also, I agree with the sentiment of putting Richard ahead of Beliveau and I'd also put Gaborik ahead of Roloson.
     
  16. Ogopogo*

    Ogopogo* Guest

    Bathgate won a Hart trophy, was a Hart runner up and was 9 times a top 7 NHL scorer. Although they are all very good, I don't think any of those other Rangers can boast that kind of excellence.

    By my system, I have Bathgate as the #11 scorer of all time.
     
  17. SingnBluesOnBroadway

    SingnBluesOnBroadway Retired

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    Leetch, Calder, 2 Norris and a Conn Smythe. More GP as a Ranger. More points. 32 fewer goals. 284 more assists. 252 more points. Second leading scorer all time for the Rangers, leader in assists.
     
  18. Ogopogo*

    Ogopogo* Guest

    Beliveau has 2 Harts and 4 Hart runner ups along with 10 Stanley Cups. Richard has one Hart and 2 runner ups along with 8 Stanley Cups. Richard was a slightly better scorer but, the Hart trophies give Beliveau the edge, IMO.
     
  19. kmad

    kmad riot survivor

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    Messier, Stanley Cup
     
  20. Ogopogo*

    Ogopogo* Guest

    I agree, Leetch was an excellent player - one of the greatest players ever. But, his Norris trophy index of 29 puts him a little behind Bathgate's scoring index of 41.5.

    They are both phenomenal but, Bathgate dominated his era more than Leetch dominated his.
     
  21. Ogopogo*

    Ogopogo* Guest

    Messier and Bathgate are very close in greatness but, much of Messier's greatness took place while he was in Edmonton. Bathgate accomplished more in a Ranger uniform than Messier did. But, again, both are phenomenal.
     
  22. kmad

    kmad riot survivor

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    There's more to greatness than point indexes and trophy votes.

    Rocket Richard lit a fire of passion for hockey under the ass of Montreal that has yet to be rivaled. Beliveau and Lafleur idolized Richard.
     
  23. SingnBluesOnBroadway

    SingnBluesOnBroadway Retired

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    Leetch — More GP as a Ranger. More points. 32 fewer goals. 284 more assists. 252 more points. Second leading scorer all time for the Rangers, leader in assists. And a Stanley Cup. Is also the franchise leasder in playoff scoring. Bathgate isn't in the top 25.

    By that note, Bathgate is behind Gilbert, Leetch and Ratelle. Messier is behind Bathgate (38 points but he played 21 fewer games).

    Messier won a Hart and Pearson in 92 with the Rangers.
     
  24. Ogopogo*

    Ogopogo* Guest

    Because of era, #of games scheduled games and other systemic differences, raw point totals cannot be compared. Players pre 1970 will always rank behind 1970-1995 players in raw numbers. That is just the difference in the eras. Looking beyond the numbers gives us a better idea of what they mean. Bathgate spent a lot more time near the top of the NHL scoring race than Gilbert, Leetch, Ratelle and Messier. Bathgate just played 70 game seasons during a more defensive era.
     
  25. Ogopogo*

    Ogopogo* Guest

    I agree, Richard's legend in Montreal is probably equal to nobody's. My feeling is that the eyewitnesses, the Hart Trophy voters, give us great insight. They felt that Beliveau was more valuable to the Canadiens than Richard was. Because I never saw either of them play, I have to go with the eyewitnesses of the time.
     
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