FPHL, SPHL Expansions

[JMCx4]

Considering almost all of what makes an arena feasible is location, saying <<it's a great arena, it's just not in the right place>> is like saying <<it's a great car, but it doesn't have wheels, or a frame, steering wheel, or windows>>.

But it's got LOTS of legroom, and a spacious trunk.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

See, now we're talking about different things.

Feasibility isn't what I'm talking about.

Based on the 12 or so minor league rinks I've been inside of myself, the rink is a high quality rink, or at least was 10 years ago.

I'm talking about the building. Nothing more, nothing less.

so, many current arenas are old-style depending on the age of the building.... depends on what other events the building has outside of the hockey configurations.....

 

[CrazyEddie20]

See, now we're talking about different things.

Feasibility isn't what I'm talking about.

Based on the 12 or so minor league rinks I've been inside of myself, the rink is a high quality rink, or at least was 10 years ago.

I'm talking about the building. Nothing more, nothing less.

No, really we aren't. With any piece of commercial real estate, be it an arena or a mall or whathaveyou, a large portion of its value is location. A high quality arena in the middle of nowhere is worthless because it is inaccessible.

Take Madison Square Garden and put it in Franklin County, New York. It's a high quality building in a terrible location. As commercial real estate, it's a piece of crap. Same thing with Family Arena. You can't judge an arena as "just the building," although you may be tempted to.

 

[battra]

No, really we aren't. With any piece of commercial real estate, be it an arena or a mall or whathaveyou, a large portion of its value is location. A high quality arena in the middle of nowhere is worthless because it is inaccessible.

Take Madison Square Garden and put it in Franklin County, New York. It's a high quality building in a terrible location. As commercial real estate, it's a piece of crap. Same thing with Family Arena. You can't judge an arena as "just the building," although you may be tempted to.

I'm going to disagree.

Whether or not Madison Square Garden is in Manhattan or exurban Syracuse doesn't change the quality of arena.

It changes the feasibility of the arena.

I like the building. It's a good minor league building.

 

[CrazyEddie20]

I'm going to disagree.

Whether or not Madison Square Garden is in Manhattan or exurban Syracuse doesn't change the quality of arena.

It changes the feasibility of the arena.

I like the building. It's a good minor league building.

If it was a good minor league building, it would have a minor league team.

Family Arena's location makes it worthless as an arena.

 

[JMCx4]

... Family Arena's location makes it worthless as an arena.

But it's proven great as a flea market venue. Except during Missouri River flooding.

ETA: Or heavy rains.

 

[battra]

If it was a good minor league building, it would have a minor league team.

Family Arena's location makes it worthless as an arena.

Alright, homie.

You're right.

Seriously. You have to change the topic in order whatevs, man, whatevs.

What's funny though, your first statement is ridiculous and your second is absolutely correct, but you're talking about two different things, but hey, it's the internet and most folks can't admit they're wrong.

 

[mk80]

Regarding the Family Arena it has two major flaws, the first and foremost is location, the second is management. Both are terrible.

Those of you outside the St. Louis area may want to follow along the next part with your maps:

It's location makes it tough draw for fans coming from parts of the STL area south of I44, East of I270 and anywhere on the Illinois side. Heck while working for the indoor soccer team that plays there, I talked to soccer people constantly in west St. Louis County (Maryland Heights, Creve Coeur, Chesterfield, Town and Country) who would say "I'd love to see an Ambush game, but don't want to drive to St. Charles." Although when it comes to the indoor soccer team, the arena is pretty far down the laundry list of problems that contribute to their lack of success.

 

[GindyDraws]

So... is this the FPHL/SPHL expansion thread or the Family Arena thread?

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

This is a topic about SPHL and FPHL expansion. This tangent about an arena in St. Louis that long ago was established to be incapable of hosting a team is extreme even by HF Board standards.

 

[GindyDraws]

In NON Family Arena discussions, there are talks of building a new James Brown Arena in Augusta, GA.

So far, things seem to be positive.

The Augusta Lynx were the first ECHL team to fold midseason, and I don't know if that market would be able to support a team at that level. The size of the arena is likely meant for short-term events like wrestling shows, concerts, and basketball tournaments. But, the location and the newness would be a novelty for both the SPHL and FPHL to not ignore.

 

[JMCx4]

In NON Family Arena discussions, there are talks of building a new James Brown Arena in Augusta, GA.

So far, things seem to be positive.

The Augusta Lynx were the first ECHL team to fold midseason, and I don't know if that market would be able to support a team at that level. The size of the arena is likely meant for short-term events like wrestling shows, concerts, and basketball tournaments. But, the location and the newness would be a novelty for both the SPHL and FPHL to not ignore.

As long as the names of Bob & Diane Kerzner are not uttered in any discussions regarding future tenants for a new JBA, the SPHL *might* have a shot of returning to Augusta.

 

[CrazyEddie20]

In NON Family Arena discussions, there are talks of building a new James Brown Arena in Augusta, GA.

So far, things seem to be positive.

The Augusta Lynx were the first ECHL team to fold midseason, and I don't know if that market would be able to support a team at that level. The size of the arena is likely meant for short-term events like wrestling shows, concerts, and basketball tournaments. But, the location and the newness would be a novelty for both the SPHL and FPHL to not ignore.

That building was in bad shape for years. The ice literally melted under the players during a game against the Everblades in the either the penultimate or final season. It was a dump.

 

[JMCx4]

That building was in bad shape for years. The ice literally melted under the players during a game against the Everblades in the either the penultimate or final season. It was a dump.

And three years later, the SPHL's Augusta RiverHawks had to play the last 8 games of their final season at the 400-seat Augusta Ice Sports Center after the JBA ice plant failed for the final time. With no disrespect intended to the late great Godfather of Soul, I would suggest the Augusta Commission members consider giving their new arena a different name & leave all that bad mojo behind them.

 

[CrazyEddie20]

And three years later, the SPHL's Augusta RiverHawks had to play the last 8 games of their final season at the 400-seat Augusta Ice Sports Center after the JBA ice plant failed for the final time. With no disrespect intended to the late great Godfather of Soul, I would suggest the Augusta Commission members consider giving their new arena a different name & leave all that bad mojo behind them.

Not to mention the interior of the JBA looks like something out of the movie Tron...

 

[GindyDraws]

The SPHL is only playing half their teams this year, which I posted another thread about. Although most of the teams not playing are stuck with limitations on venues (such as Peoria), others like Evansville might not be so cut and dry in terms of blaming COVID.

If the FPHL lasts another year, and let's be realistic; they will, you know they may look at the five teams sitting out and seeing what happens.

 

[SemireliableSource]

For Evansville, their shortest road trip was a minimum of 4 hours. Conversely, Pensacola can reach three of the other four teams playing in 5:15. Travel costs definitely played a factor in Evansville’s decision. I don’t really think they’ll be back in 2021-22.

 

[GindyDraws]

For Evansville, their shortest road trip was a minimum of 4 hours. Conversely, Pensacola can reach three of the other four teams playing in 5:15. Travel costs definitely played a factor in Evansville’s decision. I don’t really think they’ll be back in 2021-22.

Not to mention, they were dead last in attendance, and had little positive interaction (they had plenty of negative interaction, such as the team having two of the worst records in SPHL history and off-ice issues) in the community.

The Ford Center deal was the reason why the Icemen left Evansville, and honestly, I'm not sure hockey will return to Evansville unless the city is willing to be friendly. The SPHL was an awful fit for the city, and there has to be some room for the franchise to pay for players of some talent.

 

[Atlantian]

Evansville is a good fit for the Fed if that league even makes it to 2021

 

[JMCx4]

Evansville is a good fit for the Fed if that league even makes it to 2021

As @JDogindy pointed out above, the Ford Center economics are a huge barrier to hockey in Evansville. I could see the FPHL (specifically Barry Soskin) coveting the market *IF* they could secure Swonder Ice as an affordable venue, now that the NA3HL team has left town. But the pro hockey fanbase in E'ville may be soured for several years after their experiences with the Icemen & the T-bolts.

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

Evansville is a good fit for the Fed if that league even makes it to 2021

Most Fed budgets are around $500.000 and lease is the largest cost object. The Ford Center lease demands would be a non-starter for a Fed team. There are multiple Fed teams that exist on a season-to-season basis because of their affordable lease agreement.