Fox, Turner interested in NHL U.S. TV Rights...

Araxen*

Guest
I understand the appeal of ESPN, and don't entirely disagree with the sentiment that the NHL should be involved with them somehow. At least, they shouldn't be in an antagonistic position the way they have been since the lockout, where it's in ESPN's best interest to ignore or demean hockey to the sports-watching public.

That said, I think the NHL is best served being the marquee attraction on a basic-cable station. FX would be the ideal in terms of market niche, but TNT does a great job with its coverage and might represent a more diverse demographic. TruTV doesn't interest me at all.

I think the best deal is a deal like what the NBA enjoys. ESPN and then another cable channel that will devote more time to the sport than ESPN will give or maybe they could do Vs and another cable channel too and have two channels that will devote a proper amount of time to the sport. ESPN I think everyone would agree wouldn't give the NHL a lot of time and may become an afterthought especially at this time of the year with NCAA basketball climaxing, MLB starting, the NBA starting to climax, and MLS will be starting soon also.
 

Rakunitz23

Registered User
May 17, 2010
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TNT is an absolute NO GO for reasons that NBC was an absolute no go a few years ago. If TNT left a 2-1 game, or whatever score game, for a live look in on an NBA game, or if they cut off the last 10 minutes (plus OT) of a game for the start of an NBA game, you, me, and everyone else would absolutely go ape ****. Thankfully NBC learned from their blunder with the Kentucky Derby a few years ago, and I honestly don't want to have to go through that again.

Anyone that signs a contract should be obligated under said contract to play games in their entirety, but I could see the NHL dropping the ball on this.
 

Araxen*

Guest
I would assume their coverage would be on a day they aren't covering the NBA. I think they only show NBA games on Wednesday so that would leave 6 days for them to pick from they want to show NHL games.
 

46zone

Pass me the soft pretzels
Feb 5, 2007
2,662
730
Philadelphia
Why are people bringing up TNT? A television contract with Turner would not include games on TNT, only TruTv. I'd like to see the NHL stick to NBC/Vs, with another cable package going to ESPN.
 

CHRDANHUTCH

Registered User
Mar 4, 2002
35,232
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Auburn, Maine
Why are people bringing up TNT? A television contract with Turner would not include games on TNT, only TruTv. I'd like to see the NHL stick to NBC/Vs, with another cable package going to ESPN.

stop promoting ESPN as the savior for the NHL---- if they were----WHY did they walk away after the lockout of 2004, when Tampa Bay was the Champion on ABC, 46
 

Melrose Munch

Registered User
Mar 18, 2007
23,546
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So says hockey fans.

Agreed on this point. That said I don't know if I would say that ESPN has restored the NBA's image like the original poster said. Mainly because I don't know if there was anything to restore. I'm not an NBA fan, but my impression was that the "high" point of the NBA on tv was back when the NBA was on NBC. I believe the NBA's rating on ABC have generally been a lot lower compared to NBC (granted some of that has to do with the changing landscape of tv). It is also my impression that the marquee NBA telecasts are the ones on TNT not ESPN.

ESPN there is so much going on there that they don't really do marquee telecast well. Their telecasts seem to blend together and some can get lost in the shuffle. That would happen to the NHL IMO. Sure it might take a more prominent role if the NBA and NFL go through lockouts, but those are only temporary. What happens the other 4-7 years of any long term deal?

With the NBC/Comcast merger I don't know if there is something that ESPN can offer that NBC can't also. Especially since ESPN would likely be a cable only deal. Plus with the NBC deal the league is going to take a more prominent place and probably more money. They both have numerous channels they can promote the games on (though again you are probably going to get more promotion with NBC).

All things being equal I don't see the league leaving where they are now.

Googling "December 21, 2012" and having 24 kajillion results about the apocalypse doesn't mean the world is ending on December 21, 2012.

The only thing ESPN did that they did not intend to do was re-cast LeBron as a villain. ESPN is as healthy as it's ever been. People keep saying how despicable "The Decision" was, and how terrible the NBA is, but they're still trucking along, actually better than usual. Sexual Assault & r*** allegations, and overall just being a bad human being only hurt Kobe Bryant's image for a short time. He's still the most popular player in the NBA.

The opening of the season had the highest TV ratings ever, and the All-Star Game (!) - that novelty weekend that no fan supposedly cares about - had the highest ratings since Jordan. If this is an 'image problem' I wish the NHL could get one of these.

I know you hate ESPN and you hate the NBA (as do I), but if people were sick of them based on their image, you'd think there would be less people paying attention, watching games, buying their merchandise, someone would feel it in the wallet.

Their economic structure, now, there's where all their problems are.

NBA is losing money right now. But They are still more popular than hockey. IMO The NHL All Star game is LAME. I like Basketball (Go Knicks baby!) and their players have more fun. And Hockeys image isn't all that great either, head to the USAToday and HuffPo and the first thing is how dangerous hockey is!
 

Brodie

the dream of the 90s is alive in Detroit
Mar 19, 2009
15,399
359
Chicago
Yeah, I'm really unsure why people keep mentioning TNT. It's TruTV Turner wants to put the NHL on, not TNT or TBS.
 

DeathToAllButMetal

Let it all burn.
May 13, 2010
1,361
0
Stick with Versus and try to grow together. Switching horses in mid-stream right now would not be productive. You'd either be going in as ESPN filler or as another niche product on a Turner network nobody's heard of.
 

LordHelmet

Registered User
May 19, 2004
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Twin Cities
With all the programming on ESPN I don't know how the NHL on ESPN2 (it won't be on ESPN proper) would be anything more than filler programming. That isn't going to get a lot of promotion. At best it will end up like mid-week college basketball telecast (and those don't do great). There is only going to be so much they can promote and that is going to go to their big properties (which in comparison the NHL won't be). We already have seen this play out, back when ESPN had the NHL rights and then got the NBA rights. The money went to the NBA and the NHL became filler programming.

Versus and NBC have been good partners for the NHL. On ESPN, the NHL would be just another sport that they telecast, as well as the other 4 major team sports. Hockey would get the short end of that stick every time.
I fully agree with both of these statements. Take a look at ESPN over the next month. They're going to be about 99.5% all about college basketball right when hockey is coming down to the final playoff races. Then look, MLB starts up right as the NHL playoffs do. The beginning of hockey season would get overshadowed by the beginning of the NFL season.

I'd venture to say that ESPN's main strategy in bidding for hockey is to take the one major sport away from their competition. Take the NHL away, and VS. is hurt badly and never has a shot at contracts with any of the other sports.
 

LordHelmet

Registered User
May 19, 2004
956
0
Twin Cities
And what would happen if Versus, say, won the rights to broadcast some MLB games? Some NBA games? A new NFL package were created and they won those rights?

Versus has much loftier goals than where it's at right now and it will pay to reach the next level. Hockey's position as undisputed top dog on the network absolutely has an expiration date... whenever they find something that will do better in the ratings to air.
So you want to give up hockey's position as top dog for a position as bottom dog, because you might at some point in the future become 2nd top dog?

If VS. gains contracts with other sports, then so be it. Deal with it then if it starts to affect their promotion & coverage of hockey.
 

rye&ginger

Registered User
Jan 4, 2004
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Vancouver
Not to get in the middle of anything or for that matter even act like I know that much about the business side of sports (I love to learn it, long ways to go though), but if I'm not mistaken the NBA's TV numbers have gone way up this season. I believe it was the Miami/NY game 10 days ago that was the highest rated NBA game on cable since MJ was in the league. And that's just one example. So while I definitly don't know much about the image problem the NBA may or may not have in the States I do know the TV numbers don't seem to indicate that.


I know this applies to the NHL as well, but the NBA has only 5 teams that will draw TV audience. LAL, CHI, NYK, BOS and MIA I guess. 4 are big markets that are all good teams, and MIA has 3 superstars. Ratings and attendence for many teams seems to be suffering. NBA has admitted it screwed Vancouver and Seattle, so it is not without faults. The NHL has given struggling markets LOTS of time to turn it around without bailing after a few years like the NBA seems to do often. Should fans of New Orleans trust the NBA? Fans of the Bucks? Memphis?


For the reasons of wider coverage rather than once a week big market team vs. big market team, I think the NHL is better off with sticking with Vs. who are now a part of a big big company thanks to really stupid government. Also they could make a non-exclusive deal and setup a days of the week deal eg. Thrs night hockey, or even a Saturday night hockey deal. Imagine transfering Canada's heritage for Saturday night over to the USA on a specialty channel. Could that work?
 

obsenssive*

Guest
In this age of specialty cable the importance of network television is clearly declining. It clearly doesn't warrant the status that it has. its merely the dying remains of something that hasn't really mattered since 1998.

And frankly the FS telecasts in the US are usually quite good, and I prefer them to NBC/versus. I think the NHL should work on expanding NHL network to maybe a few channels (NHL N. canada, NHL N. West, NHL N. East) and playing the Fox telecasts of games.
 

BadHammy*

Guest
I still am strongly in favor of a multi-pronged approach. Why the heck can't we do both ESPN and VS/NBC? That'd be fantastic. Versus could carry more games down the stretch and NBC could hype up the early season games...
 

ChompChomp

Can't wait for Sharks hockey to return someday
Jan 8, 2007
10,998
1,571
El Paso, TX
Fox and/or Turner wouldn't be so bad, but the thing is the NHL will want a long-term deal with a rights fee (of course) and Fox and/or Turner will want a short-term deal (Since they will be seeing this as adding sports during potential NFL/NBA lockouts) and straight revenue-share.
 

AtlantaWhaler

Thrash/Preds/Sabres
Jul 3, 2009
19,584
2,756
IMO, as much as I hate the network, the NHL isn't going to grow without ESPN. ESPN has way more viewers than Vs. Sportscenter doesn't mention the NHL until top-10 plays at the end of the show. ESPN sucks, but without them, half of America will continue to forget the hockey is a major sport.
 

ChompChomp

Can't wait for Sharks hockey to return someday
Jan 8, 2007
10,998
1,571
El Paso, TX
I fully agree with both of these statements. Take a look at ESPN over the next month. They're going to be about 99.5% all about college basketball right when hockey is coming down to the final playoff races. Then look, MLB starts up right as the NHL playoffs do. The beginning of hockey season would get overshadowed by the beginning of the NFL season.

I'd venture to say that ESPN's main strategy in bidding for hockey is to take the one major sport away from their competition. Take the NHL away, and VS. is hurt badly and never has a shot at contracts with any of the other sports.

Tell me, how many MEN's NCAA tourney games are on ESPN or even the ABC/Disney family? Oh, that's right, a big fat ZERO. If they had NHL now, even with the tourney coming, the NHL would get more coverage than they have now.

As to their main strategy for bidding, I suspect it's becuase they think they can make quick buck on a revenue-share deal. No way in hell do they do a rights fee deal, unless somehow the NHL gets someone to pay upfront in exchange for the Winter Classic, but I still don't think the WC is worthy of a rights fee (and if so, it's modest). On a pure revenue share deal (like NBC has now), for the network it's easy money because you don't pay a fee to NHL, just produce and broadcast the games and split ad revenue.

Of course ESPN wouldn't mind that because the production/broadcasts costs are minimal and on a revenue-share deal with no fee, those overhead costs are the only risk.

Question is, would (will) ESPN pay a rights fee for the NHL again? Ie, will they sign a deal where they have to pay some amount (like $100M) or something for the right to show NHL games for a few seasons? My gut still says no and that the NHL only goes back to ESPN if the NHL thinks it is beneficial to them to be on ESPN, even though they have to do a revenue-share with no upfront rights fee.
 

Metzen

Registered User
Sep 9, 2005
471
0
What would the forum go'ers here consider a good US TV deal?

The "Disney" deal was $600M over 5 years ($150M/season), the VS lockout contract was $62.5M/season until it was extended in year 3(?) for ~$75M/season.

Does anyone think the NHL could get $200M/season? More/less?
 

CHRDANHUTCH

Registered User
Mar 4, 2002
35,232
4,218
Auburn, Maine
IMO, as much as I hate the network, the NHL isn't going to grow without ESPN. ESPN has way more viewers than Vs. Sportscenter doesn't mention the NHL until top-10 plays at the end of the show. ESPN sucks, but without them, half of America will continue to forget the hockey is a major sport.

Again who elected to walk away when the lockout happened in 2004, AW, ESPN/ABC has too many contracts as it can fill channels with, CBA /Legal notwithstanding especially after what the NHL was forced to do then, otherwise we'd still be in a lockout in hockey just as the NBA AND NFL are heading toward....
 

CBJSprague24

"Scoreboard, son."
Oct 11, 2007
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0
52mi from the Nat
Anyone know if the quality of NHL broadcasts on FX or TruTV be the same as they would be if shown on FOX or TNT, with pre-game shows, highlights, and the like, or would they show up in time for the game and end the broadcast as soon as it was over?

Some NASCAR races during the FOX half of the season were shown on FX during the first NASCAR TV deal (2001-06), using the same broadcast team (or, with standalone Busch Series races, a "B" team using alternate announcers from the NASCAR world), graphics, etc.. Other than being on a cable network, the coverage was great.
 

PlagerBros*

Guest
It's funny how many people completely ignore how instrumental ESPN was during the NHL's big years during the 90's.
 

LadyStanley

Registered User
Sep 22, 2004
105,742
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the NHL walked away from ESPN

Nope. ESPN walked away from the league after the lockout.

Anyone know if the quality of NHL broadcasts on FX or TruTV be the same as they would be if shown on FOX or TNT, with pre-game shows, highlights, and the like, or would they show up in time for the game and end the broadcast as soon as it was over?

Unknown. NHL hasn't been broadcast on Fox for more than a decade (before HD). And the NHL may stipulate pre/post game shows in any contract. :dunno:
 

jiggsawpuzzle35

Registered User
May 7, 2007
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TNT by far has the best studio crew in any sport. Ernie Johnson, Charles Barkley, and Kenny Smith (Chris Webber sucks) have great chemistry together and they always put on a great show. It would be awesome if they could pull something off like that for the NHL on TruTV.
 

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