Confirmed with Link: Fox to NYR for 2019 2nd, 2020 2nd (30 gp)

NotOpie

"Puck don't lie"
Jun 12, 2006
9,218
17,639
North Carolina
Hanifin and Lindy weren’t challenges to sign. They both got market deals. They both got almost exactly what we thought they were going to get. In fact I remember thinking they got less than what some of us were speculating they had asked for.

When negotiations with Lindholm began last year, he was reportedly asking for $5 million or a bit more and was apparently not happy with the team's initial offer. My guess is the "trade" gave him a dose of reality about the value of his services.

Now I think Lindholm was and is a solid player, probably closer to a 50-55 point guy who is defensively responsible. But as I've said elsewhere, it felt like he too easily accepted losing.

The same reports mentioned that we had barely even talked contract with Hanifin prior to the trade. He was currency as others have said, perceived to have more value outside of this organization than inside.

It's clear the org had come to believe that these were the wrong guys for the team that they were trying to build, maybe at any dollar amount.

Both were, incidentally, probably rushed to the NHL at least a year too soon. Lindy because Rutherford and Hanifin because Francis likely feared a Fox-like situation if he wasn't gotten under contract immediately. Early on, I was a big Hanifin defender and felt he would "grow" into his role. By all accounts that still isn't happening.

But, it’s also hard to argue with results and the other things the trade allowed the team to do...like sign de Haan as a Hanifin replacement and the yet to be realized, mystical RD for coward trade that’s has to happen this off-season...right?????

I'm not sure how we often overlook the simple success that we've had since the trade(s). We made the playoffs for the 1st time in a decade. That has to be factored in when wondering whether the trade was good or bad. We moved valuable picks and other assets for Recchi and Weight to put us over the top. My sense is we should look at the Calgary trade similarly. The year of Ferland, the addition of Hamilton put us over the top, even if it took longer to germinate.

I get some of the hand wringing over Lindholm, as we still lack forward talent especially RW, but setting that aside, would anyone want to be paying Hanifin $5m / year to be our 6th best defenseman? Maybe he’ll live up to that contract, but if that’s his market value, then I’m ok with moving on.

This exactly! We pay de Haan almost $500,000 less than Hanifin is getting. We wouldn't have him had we retained Hanifin. His contributions have been considerable in their own quiet way. I'm now happy giving up the "control" we had with Hanifin given de Haan's presence.
 

sheriff bart

Where are the white women at
Nov 11, 2010
2,755
14,074
Rock Ridge
When negotiations with Lindholm began last year, he was reportedly asking for $5 million or a bit more and was apparently not happy with the team's initial offer. My guess is the "trade" gave him a dose of reality about the value of his services.

Now I think Lindholm was and is a solid player, probably closer to a 50-55 point guy who is defensively responsible. But as I've said elsewhere, it felt like he too easily accepted losing.

The same reports mentioned that we had barely even talked contract with Hanifin prior to the trade. He was currency as others have said, perceived to have more value outside of this organization than inside.



Both were, incidentally, probably rushed to the NHL at least a year too soon. Lindy because Rutherford and Hanifin because Francis likely feared a Fox-like situation if he wasn't gotten under contract immediately. Early on, I was a big Hanifin defender and felt he would "grow" into his role. By all accounts that still isn't happening.



I'm not sure how we often overlook the simple success that we've had since the trade(s). We made the playoffs for the 1st time in a decade. That has to be factored in when wondering whether the trade was good or bad. We moved valuable picks and other assets for Recchi and Weight to put us over the top. My sense is we should look at the Calgary trade similarly. The year of Ferland, the addition of Hamilton put us over the top, even if it took longer to germinate.



This exactly! We pay de Haan almost $500,000 less than Hanifin is getting. We wouldn't have him had we retained Hanifin. His contributions have been considerable in their own quiet way. I'm now happy giving up the "control" we had with Hanifin given de Haan's presence.
Great take on this. We don’t get de Haan if Hanifin is still around. That has to figure into the mathematics
 

bleedgreen

Registered User
Dec 8, 2003
23,741
38,208
colorado
Visit site
That part I loved. That’s the best move we’ve made in years. That whole thing made sense. Upgrading Hanifin, and bringing a vet to play his side was a really sharp move. And no I wouldn’t want to pay Hanifin big money, I actually thought it was a good time to trade him if it didn’t hurt our future on d. Which it didn’t obviously.

That move could’ve happened without Lindy getting traded though. I also don’t think it hurt his self value to get traded. They immediately gave him essentially the contract he wanted and played on the first line. I’m sure he sees the opposite, that he’s with a team that values him more than we did.

Otherwise I mostly agree with Opie.
 

Rempe73

RIP King of Pop
Mar 26, 2018
12,282
11,685
New Jersey
Looks like that desire to return for his senior year, win a championship and earn his degree died quickly, eh? Wonder what changed.....
I really hope Carolina gets rewarded this year for all the crap they and their fans had to put up with over the past decade. I’m a lifelong Rangers fan, so I can’t say I’m as upset about the Fox trade, but I’ve also been a Carolina fan since 2016.
 

Roboturner913

Registered User
Jul 3, 2012
25,853
55,526
**** Adam Fox. Hope he sucks and is out of the league in a few years and when he goes back to get his degree he'll be so disgraced even Bunker Hill Community College turns him down.

images
 

Finlandia WOAT

js7.4x8fnmcf5070124
May 23, 2010
24,135
23,681
DeHaan came cheap, probably because of the injury history.

I doubt the contract is insured.

JR/pk or francis would never have signed him. Too easy to say, we got Hadyn and jake, why sign him? 2nd best thing Don's done (1st is breaking the chain with Ward). Methinks we struck out on, among others, James Neal, such a shame we missed put on a dynamic player like Neal. So we had money to burn in fs, and boy was it a good investment.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Unsustainable

bleedgreen

Registered User
Dec 8, 2003
23,741
38,208
colorado
Visit site
I doubt the contract is insured.

JR/pk or francis would never have signed him. Too easy to say, we got Hadyn and jake, why sign him? 2nd best thing Don's done (1st is breaking the chain with Ward). Methinks we struck out on, among others, James Neal, such a shame we missed put on a dynamic player like Neal. So we had money to burn in fs, and boy was it a good investment.
Well they probably felt that gap on the left after Hanifin. I don’t know if RF wouldn’t have traded Hanifin. Much is made of his “unwillingness” to trade his young pieces but he had to see how Hanifin was struggling too. The contract coming up was the first time he had to invest really money on the kid. He might’ve done it.

Dodged a bullet on Neal! I would’ve loved Hanifin for RoR though.
 

bleedgreen

Registered User
Dec 8, 2003
23,741
38,208
colorado
Visit site
Buy low, sell high, right?
I’m harsh on the brain mostly because of the one trade and the way those moves were presented, but mostly because we didn’t complete the play. Sign Ferland and I love the trade. I think they’ve done a really good job, and I was an RF guy. Between the goalies, DeHaan, Hamilton, Marty and Nino they’ve made some really smart moves.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Unsustainable

Cardiac Jerks

Asinine & immoral
Jan 13, 2006
23,354
39,933
Long Sault, Ontario
I’m harsh on the brain mostly because of the one trade and the way those moves were presented, but mostly because we didn’t complete the play. Sign Ferland and I love the trade. I think they’ve done a really good job, and I was an RF guy. Between the goalies, DeHaan, Hamilton, Marty and Nino they’ve made some really smart moves.

How much would you offer Ferland at this point? Just curious.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Unsustainable

Chrispy

Salakuljettaja's Blues
Feb 25, 2009
8,196
26,226
Cary, NC
I know we like to spin it the way we look better but this trade has always seemed at the surface Hanifin for Hamilton, Lindy for Ferland and assign Fox where you choose. Calgary definitely framed it that way and we did in the beginning too it seemed. We swapped a young high end potential d we lost a little faith in for a developed but still in his prime guy who can help us right now. Then we gave up a euro playmaker type stuck on the wing when we had Skinner/TT/Aho all there already and needed a lot more sandpaper , preferably with some skill and we got that.

Lindy is a 50pt skill guy and Ferland is 40pt power forward. Good swap if we keep him. We aren’t.

Turning Lindy into a few picks is pretty crap but better than losing him for nothing. There’s no spin that erases that to me, but I do concede it looks better with the picks than it did before.

You can think that way, but there's no team that didn't hire Chiarelli that would give up Hamilton for Hanifin. That's a fleecing. There had to be additions on our end to get Hamilton in the deal, which is why Lindholm for Ferland+Fox is in Calgary's favor.

It's almost impossible to break down a deal like this into individual components, and trying to grade it that way makes zero sense. In truth, we took a talent hit at forward in order to take a big step forward today on D and get rights to a prospect that turned into 2 2nd round picks.
 

GoldiFox

Registered User
Apr 21, 2014
13,287
32,030
How much would you offer Ferland at this point? Just curious.

I'd still sign Ferland to $5 million x 3-5 years (preferably 3 and max 5). He would make Nino money for a Nino impact.

I'm not super excited about Ferland's lingering injury this year but I'd be pretty pumped if the Canes did re-sign him given their knowledge of the situation. Barring a Hayes/Duchene signing, Ferland is just about the best UFA fit out there for the way Rod wants to play. Which makes sense given that this is why the Canes acquired him in the first place.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Unsustainable

Chrispy

Salakuljettaja's Blues
Feb 25, 2009
8,196
26,226
Cary, NC
I'd still sign Ferland to $5 million x 3-5 years (preferably 3 and max 5). He would make Nino money for a Nino impact.

I'm not super excited about Ferland's lingering injury this year but I'd be pretty pumped if the Canes did re-sign him given their knowledge of the situation. Barring a Hayes/Duchene signing, Ferland is just about the best UFA fit out there for the way Rod wants to play. Which makes sense given that this is why the Canes acquired him in the first place.

I remain hopeful Ferland's in and out of the lineup is him trying to push himself back too quickly or trying to play through an injury that's hard to play with, but unlikely to get worse.

If he needs surgery in the off-season to get right, I agree that I'd like to see him stay if we can get a fair price and length. Not sure I'd agree to a 5th year though.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Unsustainable

Svechhammer

THIS is hockey?
Jun 8, 2017
23,437
85,962
This article in the Sporting News from October nails it, in my opinion:

Is Elias Lindholm really this good? It's complicated - TheHockeyNews

"The bigger threat to Lindholm’s hot streak is whether he can stick with Monahan and Gaudreau. On the surface, they appear to be clicking nicely, but they’ve allowed six more shot attempts than they’ve generated in 5-on-5 play, per corsica.hockey, making them the 14th-worst line in the NHL in Corsi plus-minus among the 34 trios with at least 50 minutes together – and the 11th-worst defensively. On the flip side of Lindholm getting so many high-danger chances – he’s also giving up the most high-danger shot attempts per 60 minutes of his career. Gaudreau, Monahan and Lindholm are finding the net as a group, but they’re not dominating the play by any means, so it wouldn’t be unfathomable to see coach Bill Peters try a different right winger with Monahan and Gaudreau at some point – especially once Lindholm’s luck regresses to the mean."

Change of scenery helps guys. He was shooting at a 25% clip the first month of the season playing with a top line. Will his numbers be that good over the long term? Too early to say.
Offensively he's good, but man... those defensive numbers have to be concerning for the Flames top line going forward. It seems like they have to score at the rate they do just to break even when they're on the ice. It worked this year, but long term, that's probably going to collapse their window before its really had a chance to be open.

Don't get me wrong, I do miss Lindy here a little bit, but man I'm glad we don't have to deal with that kind of roller coaster again this year. Between stats like that and the vanishing act that Skinner always pulled, we're probably just better off not looking back at these deals, even if they put up some big offensive numbers elsewhere.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Unsustainable

GoldiFox

Registered User
Apr 21, 2014
13,287
32,030
I remain hopeful Ferland's in and out of the lineup is him trying to push himself back too quickly or trying to play through an injury that's hard to play with, but unlikely to get worse.

If he needs surgery in the off-season to get right, I agree that I'd like to see him stay if we can get a fair price and length. Not sure I'd agree to a 5th year though.

The Canes have the knowledge of what is up with him. If they let him walk because the outlook looks bad, he can go be someone else's problem. If they sign him because they are hopeful of a full recovery, awesome.

Ferland is going to UFA with less than 350 NHL games played. Objectively that is very low mileage for a UFA. People want to point to Lucic, but Lucic had played 748 NHL games when he signed his deal with Edmonton at the same age as Ferland is now. That isn't a catch-all, but it is worth noting.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Unsustainable

CanesFanBudMan

Borg member
Jun 14, 2016
1,739
6,986
I'd still sign Ferland to $5 million x 3-5 years (preferably 3 and max 5). He would make Nino money for a Nino impact.

I'm not super excited about Ferland's lingering injury this year but I'd be pretty pumped if the Canes did re-sign him given their knowledge of the situation. Barring a Hayes/Duchene signing, Ferland is just about the best UFA fit out there for the way Rod wants to play. Which makes sense given that this is why the Canes acquired him in the first place.
Rather than paying 5mm a year for Ferland I'd much rather go after someone like JT Miller.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Unsustainable

GoldiFox

Registered User
Apr 21, 2014
13,287
32,030
Rather than paying 5mm a year for Ferland I'd much rather go after someone like JT Miller.

I don't see a big difference between the two. Ferland is much more physical, has a higher motor, and a much better shot. JT Miller is a better playmaker and defender. Both are ~40 point wingers in the Canes top-6 or 50+ point wingers next to Aho (or another capable Center).

I don't mind that swap but I personally like what Ferland brings to the table more. Assuming he can get healthy. If Miller was right handed or had any documented PP capabilities then I'd be more interested.

JT Miller would costs assets (at least a 2nd round pick +) to acquire and makes $5.25 million a year. Ferland would be free and likely clocks in around the same salary.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Unsustainable

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

-->