Value of: Four Penguins Moves (CAR, MTL, OTT, TOR.)

[Rich Nixon]

In terms of bad contracts, Johnson's $3.25 million cap hit barely registers. Go ahead and waive him if you want to ignore some of the cap, what's his NHL hit if he's playing in the minors? Gotta be comparable to the buyout.

We've yet to see a team package a first to dump a $6 million contract, let alone a $3 million one.

 

[Hockey Stick]

An Olli Maata trade is a giant step backwards for the Habs. They were so effective and fun this year because they actually had speed and mobility. Everytime I've seen Maata play, he looks lie he can't keep up. I'm sure he has his great moments, but I really hope to never see him in a Canadiens jersey... especially at the expense of Lehkonen

 

[orby]

I'm not ready to give up a 1st to get rid of Johnson yet. The two RFA rights deals seem like good ideas to me although some fans would riot if they traded Hornqvist. Jarry for Brown...IDK. Probably? I'd have to think about it.

 

[Riptide]

If he's healthy scratched two playoffs in a row, it seems to be an issue. Chris Kelly played 82 games for Ottawa the year we went to the Conference Finals but it was pretty clear he wasnt gonna be in every night once the playoffs started. We acquired better forwards, you guys acquired better DMen.

As for his salary, it doesnt really matter for Pittsburgh. What matters is his caphit and IF he isnt gonna be in your top 6 (which he shouldnt be, given Pittsburghs depth), then it is an albatross to play 3.25mil for a DMan who is gonna play in your 7 slot when you are a contender with an older core and are close to the cap

Guess it's a good thing he played 3 of our 4 playoff games then isn't it? Which would then indicate that he's probably going to be in our top 6.

You can cry all you want about how he was scratched for two playoffs in a row... however that's not even close to being the whole truth - but then it's pretty obvious that you're not all that interested in the truth. If you were you would realize that playing 85/86 games for the team last season should paint a pretty clear picture as to where the coach and management place him on the totem pole - and it's clearly in the top 6.

 

[Riptide]

In terms of bad contracts, Johnson's $3.25 million cap hit barely registers. Go ahead and waive him if you want to ignore some of the cap, what's his NHL hit if he's playing in the minors? Gotta be comparable to the buyout.

We've yet to see a team package a first to dump a $6 million contract, let alone a $3 million one.

Naw man, apparently it's a total albatross.

 

[Toby Flenderson]

How about these 2 trades instead:

Kessel to AZ for 14th OA and Fischer

Bjugstad and Pitt 1st (roughly 17th OA) for Kadri and Brown

Guentzel-Sid-Hornqvist
McCann-Geno-Fischer
Rust-Kadri-Brown

 

[Junohockeyfan]

An Olli Maata trade is a giant step backwards for the Habs. They were so effective and fun this year because they actually had speed and mobility. Everytime I've seen Maata play, he looks lie he can't keep up. I'm sure he has his great moments, but I really hope to never see him in a Canadiens jersey... especially at the expense of Lehkonen

I don’t think the Pens can trade Maata in the East. The emphasis on speed would kill Maata’s trade prospects. The only place for him might be Ottawa if they want to tank or a slow team in the West (LA?).

JJ meanwhile is a capdump. Pens would have to take back an equal dump in return.

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

Guess it's a good thing he played 3 of our 4 playoff games then isn't it? Which would then indicate that he's probably going to be in our top 6.

You can cry all you want about how he was scratched for two playoffs in a row... however that's not even close to being the whole truth - but then it's pretty obvious that you're not all that interested in the truth. If you were you would realize that playing 85/86 games for the team last season should paint a pretty clear picture as to where the coach and management place him on the totem pole - and it's clearly in the top 6.

Wow, youre condescending!

Letang
Dumoulin
Schultz
Gudbranson
Maataa
Pettersson

who are you scratching consistently for Johnson?

Literally all that Johnson was 'top 6' among your current DMen in was staying healthy. Schultz missed 60 games, he was basically a late-season addition. Gubranson was a late season addition. Pettersson was acquired during the season. Maata and Letang missed ~40 games between the two of them. How many games last season were all of those guys available? I am willing to wager it was not many. Who is the one not all that interested in the truth???

Johnson is your 7th best DMan and either he is deployed that way, or someone with an even more expensive contract is your 7th DMan (unless you wanna sit Pettersson until someone gets hurt)... or you trade a better DMan/ one who *doesnt* spend the last season and a half of their contract above the age of 35

You guys have almost no cap space and are at a time when being competitive is imperative. If you dont think Johnson is an albatross on the Pens roster, that's your prerogative but stfu with that condescending crap. In an ideal world, he is the first player they move. I am not the one who proposed trading a first to get rid of Johnson so clearly I'm not the only one who thinks so. I dont think it would take a 1st but if you think he has any kind of value you're dreaming.

 

[Riptide]

Wow, youre condescending!

who are you scratching consistently for Johnson?

Literally all that Johnson was 'top 6' among your current DMen in was staying healthy. Schultz missed 60 games, he was basically a late-season addition. Gubranson was a late season addition. Pettersson was acquired during the season. Maata and Letang missed ~40 games between the two of them. How many games last season were all of those guys available? I am willing to wager it was not many. Who is the one not all that interested in the truth???

Johnson is your 7th best DMan and either he is deployed that way, or someone with an even more expensive contract is your 7th DMan (unless you wanna sit Pettersson until someone gets hurt)... or you trade a better DMan/ one who *doesnt* spend the last season and a half of their contract above the age of 35

You guys have almost no cap space and are at a time when being competitive is imperative. If you dont think Johnson is an albatross on the Pens roster, that's your prerogative but **** with that condescending crap. In an ideal world, he is the first player they move. I am not the one who proposed trading a first to get rid of Johnson so clearly I'm not the only one who thinks so. I dont think it would take a 1st but if you think he has any kind of value you're dreaming.

A) I wouldn't be if I didn't have to repeat myself 10 times over the same simple shit. But alas here we are.
B) Based on the POs, and what our board has been saying for the past few months since the TD, Maatta. Ideally both would go, but realistically Rutherford won't move him (which is different then him wanting to move him).
C) Every one of our blueliner's were healthy all POs long. And while Johnson did sit the first game for Maatta (hence your constant blithering about "scratched for 2 straight playoffs"), Maatta was the healthy scratch for games 2, 3 and 4 in favor of Johnson. That (as I've said before) should tell you a lot, but apparently it doesn't so here we are.
D) I've never once said he had "value" in the sense that we'd get anything back for him - just that it wouldn't cost us anything to move him. In fact I've specifically said that we wouldn't get shit back... but that circles back to the part where some people struggling with their reading comprehension.
E) It's not about what I think. In a world where Alzner gets 4.625m, Girardi and Hainsey get 3m and Stone gets 3.5m, JJ at 3.25m isn't an issue. Doesn't mean it's great, but 3.25m for a 5/6D who could play up if needed is nothing in today's cap world. And it's certainly not the "albatross" that you're spending all this time trying to suggest it is.

Again, you don't have to like the contract or the player (I certainly don't), but at least grasp some understanding of why players get paid like they do in the NHL and what the financial landscape of the NHL actually is... because it's pretty clear this is something you're not understanding.

 

[KevinRedkey]

As a Sens fan, I'd jump on the JJ deal... But I think Pittsburgh is overpaying to dump him here.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Lol, we give a 1st paired with JJ and we get back just a 6th round pick?

Jeez.

 

[elitepete]

Despite what some bitter fans think, Johnson holds a lot more value then people think. Not enough to get anything decent back, but enough Pittsburgh won't have to pay someone to take him - and certainly not a 1st.

On what planet is a 32 year old defensemen that is basically a #6 at this point, was a healthy scratch in the playoffs, and is getting paid 3.25m for 4 more years not negative value?

 

[Beville]

He is 32 and signed to 4more years at $3 million. If u could be guaranteed to be able to move him at the TDL, then ok. Yes the 1st is intriguing.

I’m interested - he’s at least a veteran presence and he isn’t exactly over priced.

 

[Sen sational]

I’m interested - he’s at least a veteran presence and he isn’t exactly over priced.

But then which of our left D do you not play for the next 4 years, Chabot, Brannstrom, Wolanin, Lajoie. If we are going to get a veteran D it makes more sense to get a short term veteran right D.

 

[thegoalie39]

Trades:

Patric Hornqvist to CAR for Hadyn Fleury (RFA rights)

Olli Maatta to MON for Artturi Lehkonen (RFA rights)

Jack Johnson + Penguins 2020 1st Round Pick to OTT for OTT 2020 6th round pick

Tristan Jarry to TOR for Connor Brown

Leaves Penguins with $14,450,000M in cap space with a lineup of

Guentzel-Crosby-Brown
McCann-Malkin-Kessel
Lehkonen-Bjustad-Rust
Simon-X (Blueger)-X (ZAR)

Dumoulin-Letang
X (Pettersson)-Schultz
X (Fleury)-Gudbranson
X (Riikola)

Murray
DeSmith

Sign the RFAs to plug the Xs, and we should still have around say, 5M in cap space we could use for a forward and bump ZAR/Simon to the bench.

Notable RFAs include Aston-Reese, Teddy Blueger, Adam Johnson, Artturi Lehkonen, Marcus Pettersson, Russo Riikola, and Hadyn Fleury.

Maata cannot skate nobody wants him

 

[Empoleon8771]

In terms of bad contracts, Johnson's $3.25 million cap hit barely registers. Go ahead and waive him if you want to ignore some of the cap, what's his NHL hit if he's playing in the minors? Gotta be comparable to the buyout.

We've yet to see a team package a first to dump a $6 million contract, let alone a $3 million one.

Get out of here with your logic

Johnson is a bad defenseman that makes bottom pair defenseman money. Johnson doesn't make enough per year for his contract to have any significant negative value, it's just too small of a fraction of the salary cap. There are worse defenseman than Johnson in the NHL, a few of which make even more money than Johnson (Phaneuf as the most well known one).

 

[HockeyDBspecialist]

Olli Maatta to MON for Artturi Lehkonen (RFA rights)

can he gets faster...

 

[slybel]

Trades:

Olli Maatta to MON for Artturi Lehkonen (RFA rights)


Notable RFAs include Aston-Reese, Teddy Blueger, Adam Johnson, Artturi Lehkonen, Marcus Pettersson, Russo Riikola, and Hadyn Fleury.

How about Weise? or Alzner? Or a package for Drouin?

 

[McSuper]

can he gets faster...

Yeah ! Drop him out of a plane . He will be moving faster then McDavid but the sudden stop at the end is going to get him

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

Does Maatta really suck, or something?

Lehkonen might be worth a 2nd, or a trade for another struggling player who might need a change of scenario.

 

[Riptide]

On what planet is a 32 year old defensemen that is basically a #6 at this point, was a healthy scratch in the playoffs, and is getting paid 3.25m for 4 more years not negative value?

In the one called reality.

 

[Riptide]

Does Maatta really suck, or something?

Not really. But he's been the whipping boy for a while now. Mostly because his skating blows. The fact that he's usually still really really effective doesn't seem to matter all that much. The optics are he can't skate and thus he's useless due to the system that Pittsburgh wants to play.

In reality he's a top 4D, however Pittsburgh has cap issues, and Maatta will grant the most cap space while being the easiest to replace internally while also providing us with value with his return. Rutherford is unlikely to try and trade Johnson and we have Pettersson in the other LD spot... so there's not really a need for Maatta.

 

[third man in]

Not really. But he's been the whipping boy for a while now. Mostly because his skating blows. The fact that he's usually still really really effective doesn't seem to matter all that much. The optics are he can't skate and thus he's useless due to the system that Pittsburgh wants to play.

In reality he's a top 4D, however Pittsburgh has cap issues, and Maatta will grant the most cap space while being the easiest to replace internally while also providing us with value with his return. Rutherford is unlikely to try and trade Johnson and we have Pettersson in the other LD spot... so there's not really a need for Maatta.

In today's fast paced NHL if you can't skate you're basically worthless unless you bring something like rare physical play to the table. Can't think of any team that would be eager to take him.

 

[Riptide]

In today's fast paced NHL if you can't skate you're basically worthless unless you bring something like rare physical play to the table. Can't think of any team that would be eager to take him.

True - but then it's a good thing that Maatta can skate, he's just not great at it, but he's certainly good enough in that dept to hold down a job. The bottom line is NHL GMs look for players who can play at this level. And Maatta can not only play at this level, but perform well above that of many of his peers when it comes to the actual results that he produces. Sure his skating is ugly and he's not going to win any awards in that dept any time soon... but how smart he is more than makes up for it.

And this is where fans and their emotions run afoul of the reality of the NHL. Its why when fans all said they'd give JJ shit and hope he's out of the NHL, there were multiple NHL GMs looking to sign him to the same sort of contract Pittsburgh gave him. It's why when Gudbranson was statistically the worst D in the NHL in his time in Vancouver, he was still someone other GMs wanted. It's why Manning and Kunitz still had jobs last fall despite being terrible the year before.

 

[domaug]

Yeah ! Drop him out of a plane . He will be moving faster then McDavid but the sudden stop at the end is going to get him

this probably sounded a lot funnier in your head than when you typed it out and posted it.