Forwards playing the point on PP

overpass

Registered User
Jun 7, 2007
5,254
2,736
I've always been interested in how some teams would play a forward on the point on the power play and some teams wouldn't.

As a Senators fan, I saw firsthand the benefits that it could bring, as Daniel Alfredsson quarterbacked Ottawa's powerplay to terrific results in the early 2000's. Of course, we also saw the downside of playing a forward on the point in the 2006 playoffs.

From a historical perspective, the frequency of this practice has changed over time. Several decades ago, it was far more common to play a forward or two on the point. Max and Doug Bentley each manned a point for the 1953-54 Rangers, and likely each had done so on earlier teams. Star forwards Bernard Geoffrion and Andy Bathgate were point men for their respective power plays in the '50s and '60s, to name a couple.

Here are some numbers to show the overall development in this area since 1968. The table shows, for each year, the percentage of (PGF by D-men)/(League PGF), where PGF=power play goal that a player was on the ice for. Essentially, it's an estimate of the % of power play minutes played by defencemen.

YearPPGF (D-men)PPGF (Total)%
1960266112624%
1961263121722%
1962256119121%
1963281114425%
1964259119122%
1965339144923%
1966380146826%
1967273125922%
1968611241125%
1969770270928%
1970812324225%
1971924369925%
1972989361227%
1973998387426%
19741112391128%
19751668571629%
19761699586029%
19771340468529%
19781426477630%
19791610515131%
19801980632031%
19812661793034%
19822447758832%
19832410743132%
19842570765934%
19852592744335%
19862968857135%
19872616757135%
19883184928534%
19893010888234%
19902699798934%
19912647744536%
19922957849235%
199334781035334%
19943517981636%
19951689481035%
19963145959633%
19972362708333%
19982571741735%
19992466764532%
20002491745333%
20013008933332%
20022563796732%
20032742886931%
20042765851432%
200639881260832%
200732641038131%
200831141002631%
20093036964231%
20102529828631%
20112397782831%
20122169701431%
20131269434629%
20142192718331%
20152055700829%
20162027713628%
20171918701427%
[TBODY] [/TBODY]


Role of Defencemen on the Power Play
Defencemen played on the power play less frequently in the years after expansion. There was a gradual change in their role during the decade from 1975 to 1985, at which point defencemen were playing 35% of the available power play minutes, up from about 25% a decade earlier. That's a major change, about the equivalent of 0.5 more defencemen per team on the ice for a power play.

This trend reversed to some degree in the late 1990s, and since the lockout defencemen play about 31-32% of the available power play minutes, down from their peak level of ~35% in the late 80s and 90s.

Finally, here's a look at the teams which had the highest % of forwards or the highest % of defencemen on the power play.

Most Forward-Heavy Power Plays
YearTeamPPGF (D-men)PPGF (Total)%
1965DET162826%
2001PIT313758%
1979ATF222628%
1970STL313619%
2011NJD151679%
1967DET2422811%
1971BUF3227911%
1966DET2420911%
1964DET2420812%
1971STL3226512%
1970MNS3427612%
2013COL1410413%
1960BOS3323214%
1971MNS2718814%
2008CAR7344516%
1968DET3420617%
1977CLE4929417%
1965CHI4123717%
2000PIT4727017%
1999PIT5732617%
1973NYI2413718%
1962DET3419418%
2010NJD4525418%
2007EDM4726518%
2007CAR5832618%
1974DET5329418%
2003MIN4424418%
1969CHI5027418%
1963DET4524618%
1961DET3418518%
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Many people probably remember the 2001 Penguins power play. They also loaded up with forwards in 2000, even without Mario. Scotty Bowman had a very good power play in St Louis in 1970 with 5 forwards on the ice most of the time.

Most Forward-Heavy Power Plays since 1980
YearTeamPPGF (D-men)PPGF (Total)%
2001PIT313758%
2011NJD151679%
2013COL1410413%
2008CAR7344516%
2000PIT4727017%
1999PIT5732617%
2010NJD4525418%
2007EDM4726518%
2007CAR5832618%
2003MIN4424418%
2004MIN4021119%
2017TBL5931119%
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

You can see here how the practice of using a forward on the point has become more common recently.

Most Defenceman-Heavy Power Plays
YearTeamPPGF (D-men)PPGF (Total)%
1991WIN17236947%
1985NYR16936446%
1992NJD13729646%
1970OAK10122046%
1985WAS17839146%
1987CGY18139945%
1986NYR16636645%
1972VAN10623845%
1984BOS18040844%
1981BOS18943144%
1982BOS13932243%
1986CGY19845943%
1995DAL8319543%
1994EDM15636743%
1979TOR12229242%
2001MIN7518042%
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

These teams, appear to have deployed three defencemen occasionally on the PP (unless they played a lot of 4-on-3's). All were deep in skilled defencemen (or light on skilled forwards, in Oakland's case).

Finally, I'll make one more comment. I've always been puzzled why more coaches in international hockey in best-on-best tournaments don't put a forward on the point on the PP. The best countries always have an abundance of skilled forwards who can get PP time. And when there are fewer PP spots for defencemen, you can focus on filling the blueline with defenders who excel at even strength and shorthanded. A classic example was Canada putting Bryan McCabe on the team in 2006, when he was basically a big shot on the PP who had holes in the rest of his game, and they had guys like Joe Sakic and Brad Richards who could play the point. That roster spot could have been used for any one of dozens of Canadian blueliners who were better at EV and on the PK than McCabe. I'm not as familiar with the power play units in earlier tournaments like the Canada Cups, did Canadian teams or others ever play 4 forwards then?

Anyway, thoughts on this area? Any examples of forwards who played the point well (or poorly?) How often did teams played 4 or 5 forwards on the power play pre-1968? What caused the changes over the years in PP usage of defencemen? Should teams play 4 or 5 forwards on the PP more often?
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: grentthealien

Blades of Glory

Troll Captain
Feb 12, 2006
18,401
6
California
Well, just looking at the list of most forward-heavy powerplays, I can tell you why those powerplays were so "forward-heavy". Other than Mike Green on the 2009 Capitals, the other teams simply had nothing resembling an elite powerplay defenseman.
 

pappyline

Registered User
Jul 3, 2005
4,587
182
Mass/formerly Ont
From the mid 50's when I started watching through 1968, every team pretty much used a forward on the pp point. Chicago used both Mikita & Hull and before that Ed litzenberger (who had a lethal slapshot). Detroit used Delvecchio, Rangers had Bathgate, boston used Mohns & later Stanfield, Montreal played geoffrion on the point.

I expect this started with the 40's Leafs who used Max bentley on the point. Max would apparently skate in from the point & either take a wrist shot or make a nice pass.
 

John Flyers Fan

Registered User
Feb 27, 2002
22,416
16
Visit site
Not all skilled forwards are good at playing the point on the power play.

Over the last 35 years or so, 3 Flyers forwards have excelled playing the point: Billy Barber, Mark Recchi and Mike Richards.

With the aquisition of Pronger, Richards has moved back up front on the power play this season. Our power play has been excellent again.

I do think that having good pointmen is the biggest key to a successful power play.
 

overpass

Registered User
Jun 7, 2007
5,254
2,736
Not all skilled forwards are good at playing the point on the power play.

Over the last 35 years or so, 3 Flyers forwards have excelled playing the point: Billy Barber, Mark Recchi and Mike Richards.

With the aquisition of Pronger, Richards has moved back up front on the power play this season. Our power play has been excellent again.

I do think that having good pointmen is the biggest key to a successful power play.

I agree with both bolded statements. Just last year, both Craig Hartsburg and Cory Clouston tried Dany Heatley on the point when the Senators' PP was struggling. In both cases it lasted exactly one shift, and for good reason.

Also, I think the most successful power plays in history have tended to be the ones with great pointmen. The Canadiens with Harvey, the Islanders with Potvin, and the Flames with MacInnis come to mind.

Well, just looking at the list of most forward-heavy powerplays, I can tell you why those powerplays were so "forward-heavy". Other than Mike Green on the 2009 Capitals, the other teams simply had nothing resembling an elite powerplay defenseman.

Right. But if you have forwards who can play the point, then it's not as important to get an elite power play defenceman. The cause and effect isn't necessarily so simple.
 
Last edited:

Blades of Glory

Troll Captain
Feb 12, 2006
18,401
6
California
Right. But if you have forwards who can play the point, then it's not as important to get an elite power play defenceman. The cause and effect isn't necessarily so simple.

But what quantifies a forward being able to play the point? Is it based purely on shooting ability? In recent years, I really think so. JFF makes the point about the Flyers' using Barber, Recchi, and Richards on the point, and all three of those are or were considered excellent two-way players that made few mistakes at the point.

Now, we see Ovechkin and Kovalchuk, who have never skated on their half of the ice before, quarterbacking powerplays from the point. In Ovechkin's case I suppose it is hard to complain because they score so much, though. It's pretty dangerous to play 4 forwards on the powerplay, and I would be interested to see the SHG stats on those powerplays that were "forward-heavy".
 

Canadiens1958

Registered User
Nov 30, 2007
20,020
2,773
Lake Memphremagog, QC.
A Few Points

Using forwards on the point during the power play started after WWII. Basic idea was to stretch the offense in the zone during the powerplay by having an extra puckhandler. This grew to include a shooter with Bernie Geoffrion, Andy Bathgate, Bobby Hull, when the slapshot gained prominence.

The Leafs after Max Bentley rarely used forwards until the Bathgate trade. Interestingly during the sixties they tried a defenseman, Kent Douglas as a power play specialist.

The arrival of Bobby Orr changed the way defensemen played. They were given more offensive opportunities in minor hockey and developed offensive skills. Gradually the need for a forward on the point diminished as defensemen came into the league with the necessary passing and shooting skills.The Canadiens after Bobby Rousseau was traded rarely used four forwards.

One of the problems with using a forward on the point was the line match-ups after the power play. If four forwards were on for the two minutes (era of longer shifts) then two lines were impacted. As a result certain teams would run the power play with four forwards and one defenseman for the first minute or so an then revert back to the standard three forward, two defensemen alignment.
 

Blades of Glory

Troll Captain
Feb 12, 2006
18,401
6
California
This thread came to my mind again as I'm watching the NJ-NYI highlights from tonight. Kovalchuk at the point on the powerplay, makes a bad read, an even worse diving attempt at the Islander with the puck (in the Devils zone, no less), leads to odd man rush goal.
 

overpass

Registered User
Jun 7, 2007
5,254
2,736
But what quantifies a forward being able to play the point? Is it based purely on shooting ability? In recent years, I really think so. JFF makes the point about the Flyers' using Barber, Recchi, and Richards on the point, and all three of those are or were considered excellent two-way players that made few mistakes at the point.

Now, we see Ovechkin and Kovalchuk, who have never skated on their half of the ice before, quarterbacking powerplays from the point. In Ovechkin's case I suppose it is hard to complain because they score so much, though. It's pretty dangerous to play 4 forwards on the powerplay, and I would be interested to see the SHG stats on those powerplays that were "forward-heavy".

Thinking of Ovechkin and Kovalchuk, Peter Bondra was a predecessor as an offensive-minded winger with a big shot playing the point. Going back a few decades, Bernie Geoffrion is another example.

Here are the numbers for the SHG stats on the forward-heavy power plays. They don't appear to be particularly high. Of course, this data isn't very applicable to the general case, as these are the teams that stuck with a forward(s) on the point all year, and presumably it wasn't hurting them.

Year | Team | SHGA | %
2001 | Pittsburgh Penguins | 11 | 8%
1979 | Atlanta Flames | 5 | 8%
1970 | St. Louis Blues | 9 | 9%
1971 | Buffalo Sabres | 12 | 11%
1970 | Minnesota North Stars | 7 | 12%
1971 | St. Louis Blues | 8 | 13%
1971 | Minnesota North Stars | 4 | 14%
2008 | Carolina Hurricanes | 11 | 16%
1968 | Detroit Red Wings | 5 | 17%
1977 | Cleveland Barons | 12 | 17%
1973 | New York Islanders | 13 | 17%
2000 | Pittsburgh Penguins | 11 | 17%
1999 | Pittsburgh Penguins | 14 | 17%
2007 | Edmonton Oilers | 4 | 18%
2007 | Carolina Hurricanes | 8 | 18%
 

John Flyers Fan

Registered User
Feb 27, 2002
22,416
16
Visit site
Pat Lafontaine comes to mind, Malkin too.

Malkin doesn't generally play the point, he's on the left half-boards, and will drift up as they rotate.

Lafontaine did at times play the point. Others that played the point were: Rolston, Drury, Hawerchuk, Alfredsson, Bondra, Weight, Straka and Kovalev.

The Pengiuns of the early 2000's, post Lemieux, pre-Crosby often used 5 forwards at the same time.
 

Nalyd Psycho

Registered User
Feb 27, 2002
24,415
14
No Bandwagon
Visit site
Using forwards on the point during the power play started after WWII. Basic idea was to stretch the offense in the zone during the powerplay by having an extra puckhandler. This grew to include a shooter with Bernie Geoffrion, Andy Bathgate, Bobby Hull, when the slapshot gained prominence.

From what I can gather many teams went 4 or 5 forwards pre-WWII, it's more that the point man role was invented in the 1940's.
 

Padan

Registered User
Aug 16, 2006
534
2
Sakic was playing the point in his last four years. I also remember that he played the point in most video games (such as NHL 99).
 

Canadiens1958

Registered User
Nov 30, 2007
20,020
2,773
Lake Memphremagog, QC.
True

From what I can gather many teams went 4 or 5 forwards pre-WWII, it's more that the point man role was invented in the 1940's.

True - valid distinction between the composition of the power play unit and the point man role. There seems to be an evolution from the best offensive players, regardless of position, being sent out to a quarterback type at the point, to a shooter - starting with Bernie Geoffrion then back to defensemen after Bobby Orr once defensemen started having greater offensive skills.

Did a quick study of the 1938-39 season in the HSP and power play goals were not really factors. Not always clear if a goal was a power play goal or not, penalty times not provided,(PP) or (EV) designation not always present and certain goals missing, but the Bruins with Shore and Hollett only scored app 10 during the season and this was during an era when the complete two minute penalty had to be served.
 

SealsFan

Registered User
May 3, 2009
1,713
500
Those are amazing stats overpass, where did you get them? Do you have a list of forwards who played on the point for each team, by year?
 

overpass

Registered User
Jun 7, 2007
5,254
2,736
Those are amazing stats overpass, where did you get them? Do you have a list of forwards who played on the point for each team, by year?

The stats is simply based on the power play goals on ice for, or PGF, stat available at hockey-reference.com. It's been recorded since 1968 as a component of plus-minus. I simply looked at the percentage of total PGF recorded by defencemen by year and by team.

I have the numbers in a database which makes it easy to run the numbers for all years and all teams. These numbers could also be calculated for individual teams from the data on hockey-reference.com, although it would be time-consuming to do multiple teams. You would also have to watch to make sure that multi-position players like Doug Mohns and Ed Westfall have their positions for each year identified correctly, which hockey-reference.com doesn't always do. I think my numbers are pretty good in this regard.

Unfortunately the stats give no indication of which forward was playing the point, simply that it appears that there were 4 or more forwards on the ice for at least some of the power play. I could generate a complete list of teams who appear to have had a forward playing the point, but the identity of the forward on the point would have to come from another source.
 

Canadiens1958

Registered User
Nov 30, 2007
20,020
2,773
Lake Memphremagog, QC.
Could Help

The stats is simply based on the power play goals on ice for, or PGF, stat available at hockey-reference.com. It's been recorded since 1968 as a component of plus-minus. I simply looked at the percentage of total PGF recorded by defencemen by year and by team.

I have the numbers in a database which makes it easy to run the numbers for all years and all teams. These numbers could also be calculated for individual teams from the data on hockey-reference.com, although it would be time-consuming to do multiple teams. You would also have to watch to make sure that multi-position players like Doug Mohns and Ed Westfall have their positions for each year identified correctly, which hockey-reference.com doesn't always do. I think my numbers are pretty good in this regard.

Unfortunately the stats give no indication of which forward was playing the point, simply that it appears that there were 4 or more forwards on the ice for at least some of the power play. I could generate a complete list of teams who appear to have had a forward playing the point, but the identity of the forward on the point would have to come from another source.

Could help from the 1950's on for most of them.
 

overpass

Registered User
Jun 7, 2007
5,254
2,736
Here are the most forward-heavy power plays from 1980-1999. During these years, playing a forward on the point was less common, and as a result they were not represented in the earlier lists.

Year | Team | %
1999 | Pittsburgh Penguins | 17%
1980 | Philadelphia Flyers | 21%
1980 | St. Louis Blues | 21%
1983 | Quebec Nordiques | 21%
1999 | Colorado Avalanche | 22%

And the most forward-heavy power plays from 1985 to 1995, because we still haven't seen any of those.

Year | Team | %
1991 | Minnesota North Stars | 22%
1987 | Toronto Maple Leafs | 22%
1993 | Buffalo Sabres | 22%
1990 | St. Louis Blues | 23%
1993 | Pittsburgh Penguins | 24%

Among longtime franchises, the teams that played 4+ forwards the most since 1968 are:

Quebec/Colorado
Hartford/Carolina
Minnesota/Dallas
St. Louis
Buffalo
Detroit
Pittsburgh

And the fewest:

New York Islanders
Toronto
Vancouver
New York Rangers
Boston

Wow, if you ever felt motivated to list each team's PP forwards, by year or era, that would be great to see.

It would be great to see, but it would also be an enormous job. I put together a list of all team-seasons with less than 30% of the PGF by defencemen since 1968, as an approximate list of the teams that played at least one forward regularly on the point. There were 328 team-seasons in that list, which is why I didn't post it.
 

TheDevilMadeMe

Registered User
Aug 28, 2006
52,271
6,980
Brooklyn
Since the late 90s, the Devils have almost always used a forward on the PP.

When they had one of the league's leading powerplays (1999-01), they used Jason Arnott's big shot at the point with Brian Rafalski. Scott Niedermayer QBed the second unit.

After Arnott was traded, they used Petr Sykora at the point with Rafalski.

After Sykora was traded, they started to use Jamie Langenbrunner at the point with Rafalski, and I believe he played there on the 2003 Cup-winning team.

The only year in recent memory when they didn't do this was in 03-04, when Niedermayer and Rafalski were paired on the first PP. That was the year Niedermayer won the Norris.

Now, due to lack of a single dman who is good on the powerplay, the Devils sometimes go with 5 forwards. Kovalchuk plays the whole PP at the point, and his partner is often Langenbrunner or Rolston.
 

overpass

Registered User
Jun 7, 2007
5,254
2,736
Updated. Now including data through 2017 and back to 1960.

There's been a trend back towards 4 forwards on the power play in the 8 years (!) since I originally posted this.

Detroit in the 60s takes the lead as the most forward-heavy power play. I believe Alex Delvecchio and Gordie Howe often played the points there.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ImporterExporter

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

-->