Line Combos: Forward line-up: what would you do?

kunekune

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Feb 17, 2016
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Wheeler and Connor are quick strike player, opportunistic.
But they are very good and one of the best at that. But yeah, you have a point

What i dont get is.
Some say they score the points.
Well they should because they get all the minutes and they get into the flow all period of the games.
If they dont score Jets are screwed because they are the players leaned on base on minutes.
Base on Laine minutes. He is giving the Jets much more value .
Ehlers was but right now he is in a funk. Though his minuted are much worst thsn Laine.


Right now im just gonna cheer for Jets and Laine and Schiefele and the rest of the boys!!!

Well to be honest I don't believe them to be so bad at possession what their numbers suggest.

1st line is getting too many minutes which leads them to exhausted and it kills their possession stats.

Drop a couple minutes from their toi and their possession stats look decent.
 
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PhilJets

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Well to be honest I don't believe them to be so bad at possession what their numbers suggest.

1st line is getting too many minutes which leads them to exhausted and it kills their possession stats.

Drop a couple minutes from their toi and their possession stats look decent.
They are a quick strike line.
And they are good at finding the open spots right away.
Changing their minutes not going to change that. Its how they play. And they zre one of the best at it.
But for sure carving the minutes will be better for them and for the other lines.
 

NotCommitted

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Jul 4, 2013
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In my optimal Jets lineup, Maurice would try Laine with Scheifele ASAP, but even without that option, he should craft together a line with Roslovic and Laine. Ehlers or Perrault maybe as the 3rd piece, maybe even Copp. IMO Roslovic has earned a look in that kind of role. Give them a few games with decent opportunity and if it doesn't look good, try something else.

I also never got this argument that playing Ehlers and Laine is a dysfunctional line with a center they don't seem to work with is somehow about "player development". Meanwhile Connor is playing with Scheifele and nobody seems to think he should be 'developed' with a different center / in a role that doesn't really suite him. Quite opposite, most everyone seems to rave about how great fit he is in that 1st line and how that line should be untouchable. How come when Laine was beasting with Scheifele and Perrault/Ehlers/Copp, with some of the best GF/GA ratios in the league (probably, going by gut here but the numbers were great), it was completely fine to break up that line to "develop" Laine. Or how it was about "spreading offence" - meanwhile currently the Jets offence is as much about 1 line it has ever been. I guess judging by the recent discussion, it's finally not just the "Laine fans", who are starting to question Maurice's line combos and their TOI.

I'm just again in that place where I'm very, very frustated with Maurice (and to lesser degree about the perceived double standard of player development Connor vs Laine/Ehlers) - maybe I'm overreacting after only 3 games, it's just that this feeling about Maurice is all too familiar from previous two seasons.

I also get this feeling that in Laine's case, most everyone is ignoring what the stats say and going by some "eye-test" - in light of those stats I'd say there's also a case to be made for the possibility, that just maybe this is such a special player that your eye-test is not adapting fast enough for how he sees and plays the game, and he should be given a chance to do things his way, instead of trying to mold him into a player which "looks good" and is playing the good old NHL game just like everyone else. Hell, it's possible all that would do is prove he's not that special after all, but at least then it would be tried. Now I feel like the Jets have a potential super-star in their hands and they just don't know what to do with him because he doesn't fit some expectations.

Maybe this would be a topic for whole different discussion, but I feel this at least relates to what's going on with Laine ... I know football (soccer) comparisons aren't that great because of the larger field and totally different tempo of the game, but in football there's never been just one way to play the game, or some very homogenous way of doing things all teams seem to follow - quite the contrary. In the case of NHL, sometimes I feel there's a culture of "this is how it's always been done" - like some good ole boys club it's very hard to break into. Yes, the rink is of different size, but if this is a league where all the best play and there are a lot of European players there, you start to wonder why all the best coaches are not there as well? Or do you really think all the best coaches are North American? Or is that rink size really such a big deal that an European coach couldn't adapt to it?
 

FinnJet

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Jan 20, 2017
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How is it even possible that while playing in the same line Laine ends up 64% corsi and Little ends up with 47% Ehlers 54%).

That shouldn't even be possible.

Everyone can think who drives that line.
It's possible because Little and Ehlers are trying to set up Laine.
Corsi is kind for shooters and cruel for play makers.
And used on a single game the player corsi is even more useless tool than it is when used on a full season scale.
 

DRW204

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Dec 26, 2010
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It's possible because Little and Ehlers are trying to set up Laine.
Corsi is kind for shooters and cruel for play makers.
And used on a single game the player corsi is even more useless tool than it is when used on a full season scale.
Corsi accounts for all shot attempts, not just individual
 

Farmboy Patty

Senior Hockey Analyst
Nov 2, 2017
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I share your concern about defense, but after Nashville tonight we go on a 6 game home stand, and Maurice can hard match with the best of them. If you keep hard matching C-S-W and C-L-T against the other teams top 2 lines you should be able to find E-R-L some favorable offensive situations to get their groove going. IMO the problem with Little is he has lost a step and as a good vet he defaults to defense. While this helps keep their own end tidy he is a step behind Laine and Ehlers off the rush and no one one the line is good at retrieving pucks so there is no sustained offense. Rosie at least has the speed and offensive chops to help get that line scoring. And he will pick up the defensive.

If and when the guest team decides to shorten their bench, we have no advantage of our depth when hard matching this way, and indirectly the opposing coach gets to dictate our line usage. CSW and CLT play the majority of the time on ES, which leaves scraps for ELL. I think that Maurice plays it too safe riding Scheifele's and Lowry's lines too hard, and it will backfire later in the form of an exhausted CSW and ice cold ELL.
 

Howard Chuck

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Speaking of over playing the 1st line and exhausting them, I noticed a couple of times in the Kings game Wheeler actually left for a shift change well before Schief or Connor. Don't know if this is planned or something he is working on, or if he is having an issue of some sort, but it's a pretty responsible thing to do and was the cause of Tanev being on the line with Schief for their goal. Laine was on with Schief and Connor for a brief period as well and that looked good for the time they were there.

I hope this is Wheeler trying to kick the habit of staying out too long, but of course if you leave early and there isn't any difference...... :)

I am totally all in in my thinking that CSW and CLT are not going anywhere, and I'm perfectly fine with that. What we need to do is try Roslovic at 2C at practice and then during the home stand where we can control matchups.

.... or we need to make a trade. We have lots of trade assets.
 

Board Bard

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Speaking of over playing the 1st line and exhausting them, I noticed a couple of times in the Kings game Wheeler actually left for a shift change well before Schief or Connor.

I noticed that too. I thought, well, Wheeler's trying, but Scheifele and Connor aren't.

Can't say I agree with your opinion on line adjustments. Leaving two lines intact and trying to mix and match the rest isn't going to uncover anything we don't already know, at least until Ros is a bona fide 2C, which could easily take a year or two. That's a lot of time lost to stubbornness when something as simple as switching Ehlers and Connor (as one example, there are others) might yield two lines as good as the #1 line is already. It's a huge waste of (a) opportunity and (b) manpower.
 

Duke749

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I noticed that too. I thought, well, Wheeler's trying, but Scheifele and Connor aren't.

Can't say I agree with your opinion on line adjustments. Leaving two lines intact and trying to mix and match the rest isn't going to uncover anything we don't already know, at least until Ros is a bona fide 2C, which could easily take a year or two. That's a lot of time lost to stubbornness when something as simple as switching Ehlers and Connor (as one example, there are others) might yield two lines as good as the #1 line is already. It's a huge waste of (a) opportunity and (b) manpower.

Pretty agree with everything.
 

Bottomfeederr

Registered User
May 10, 2018
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I hope that Maurice has the nades to try Roslovic with Ehlers and Laine. ELL is just not working very well and CSW isn’t going to be broken up.

CSW-ERL-CLT-PL(insert 3rd wheel from Petan/Vesalainen/Dano/Lemieux) should atleast be tried.
 
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Mortimer Snerd

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This Little is trusted narrative is getting old, watching Little try to keep up with the play, getting beat off pucks, create squat offensively and then watch him try to keep up when the play comes back the other way is getting old. Little is no longer near 2C quality and the Jets already knew it last season. Wouldn't surprise me if we see Roslo is Little's spot very soon.

E L L never worked last season but they clicked when it was ESL but hey it's Maurice, let's go back to ELL and prove once again that the line doesn't work!

PS loved Little with Ladd and Wheeler in the first couple Jets seasons but clearly the downward spiral of his career is clearly evident and has been for a few years!

Downward spiral has been evident for a few years Sip? I think not! Year before last (absolute minimum required for your claim), 59 gms, 47 pts = 65 pt pace. How many 2C's exceeded 65 pts? Any? Year before that, 57 gms, 42 pts = 60 pt pace. Year before that a 61 pt pace. Year before that, 64 pts. Pretty damn consistent, I think, prior to last year.

One off year does not constitute a downward spiral that has been clearly evident for a few years.
 
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DRW204

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Downward spiral has been evident for a few years Sip? I think not! Year before last (absolute minimum required for your claim), 59 gms, 47 pts = 65 pt pace. How many 2C's exceeded 65 pts? Any? Year before that, 57 gms, 42 pts = 60 pt pace. Year before that a 61 pt pace. Year before that, 64 pts. Pretty damn consistent, I think, prior to last year.

One off year does not constitute a downward spiral that has been clearly evident for a few years.
he was the 1C for a majority of those years. in 16-17 when he scored 47 in 59 he was the 2C
 

ffh

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Jul 16, 2016
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people shouldn't hope for a roslovic ehlers laine line. it would mean they were demoted to the 4th line. no way he would trust them to play more then 10 minutes a game. there is a reason that scheifele isn't playing with them. laine at least seems to be learning but ehlers is going backwards at warp speed. a few more games like the last 30 and playoffs he will be a healthy scratch (malaise) scratch for a few games. 6aav and you don't even know he is playing half the time.
 

buggs

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While I can certainly agree that ELL isn't working as well as we'd like I am quite fascinated that we only ever focus on 50% of the ice surface in these discussions. So many folks seemingly expecting Little to do the hard work digging out the puck in the defensive zone (expected of a center) and then hustle his butt back up with the ice and dig the pucks out at the offensive end (don't recall this being on the center most of the time). When he doesn't manage to do that and make it an effective line it's the center's fault. It's why I contend that Connor would be better suited on that line because of his beastly-ness on the forecheck, something I cannot attribute to either Laine or Ehlers. Yes, I know, messing with CSW is folly.

Yeah, Little probably isn't the center for that line. Roslovic likely is in the future. I'm not convinced Roslovic is ready for the heavy lifting that is being asked of Little. Yup, offensive sparkplug most likely. Wonder if they outscore their competition.
 

Bottomfeederr

Registered User
May 10, 2018
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people shouldn't hope for a roslovic ehlers laine line. it would mean they were demoted to the 4th line. no way he would trust them to play more then 10 minutes a game .

Thing is though that then we all would be a bit more wiser and we’d know to look for other options. Current situation of leaning hard on CSW and CLT and not really trying to tinker more out of the rest isn’t going to lead us anywhere.

We’ve seen enough of ELL to say that it’s not going to magically burst into an effective line. Also the minutes the 4th line gets isn’t really grooming Roslovic or Vesalainen into anything.
 
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Lowered Expectations

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Feb 3, 2017
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People seem to overrate a bit Connor’s forechecking. Reading it here so much I watched closely last game’s 1st period, comparing their forecheck. They skated towards opposite puck holder waving their sticks identically, and when the puck was passed to next player they were following and pressuring that guy. Neither succeeded getting the puck forechecking, Laine once managed to intercept a pass near opposite blue line and managed to get himsef to shooting position.

Unfortunately my saved game was screwed with artifact disturbance (damned gigital age, at least during analog transmissions You could see something through the ”snowfall”) after 1st so I don’t know how it continued. But I will be monitoring closely their forechecking in Preds game, too. I’m not sold on all the gushing about farmboy’s superior puck retreaval.
 

Mortimer Snerd

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he was the 1C for a majority of those years. in 16-17 when he scored 47 in 59 he was the 2C

Right. A 64 pt pace as 2C. The year before his 1 bad year. Where is the "downward spiral clearly evident for a few years"? It is just 1 off year no matter how you slice it. Is somebody going to say that this year makes 2? Really? After 3 games?

I'm concerned about Little. He has a big, long contract. If he can't bounce back, I hope he can at least be a good 3C or RW. If not, we have a problem, both with his contract and with needing a centre in the middle 6. But lets not rush to judgement.
 

LowLefty

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Right. A 64 pt pace as 2C. The year before his 1 bad year. Where is the "downward spiral clearly evident for a few years"? It is just 1 off year no matter how you slice it. Is somebody going to say that this year makes 2? Really? After 3 games?

I'm concerned about Little. He has a big, long contract. If he can't bounce back, I hope he can at least be a good 3C or RW. If not, we have a problem, both with his contract and with needing a centre in the middle 6. But lets not rush to judgement.

Too late . . .
 
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YWGinYYZ

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Jul 3, 2011
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But I will be monitoring closely their forechecking in Preds game, too. I’m not sold on all the gushing about farmboy’s superior puck retreaval.

One game does not a season make. Go back to last year as well. He's quick in on the forecheck, good at retrieval, and plays a good cycle game with Scheif and Wheeler.
 

LowLefty

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One game does not a season make. Go back to last year as well. He's quick in on the forecheck, good at retrieval, and plays a good cycle game with Scheif and Wheeler.

One game? Based on that post, it sounds like this assessment was based on a shift in the first period.
 

Gm0ney

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Right. A 64 pt pace as 2C. The year before his 1 bad year. Where is the "downward spiral clearly evident for a few years"? It is just 1 off year no matter how you slice it. Is somebody going to say that this year makes 2? Really? After 3 games?

I'm concerned about Little. He has a big, long contract. If he can't bounce back, I hope he can at least be a good 3C or RW. If not, we have a problem, both with his contract and with needing a centre in the middle 6. But lets not rush to judgement.
I think we're all hoping last year was just an anomaly for Little - so we're watching for a sign that he's bouncing back. I can't say I've seen one yet...but it's very early.

upload_2018-10-11_14-37-12.png


Focusing on offense, it looks like "Peak Little" was 2012-13 to 2015-16. His CF/60 these last two seasons were both the lowest recorded over his last 8 seasons. His peak years CF/60 was between 60-65. The last two are between 57-60. Looks like he got a little short-changed on his p/60 relative to his CF/60 last year. If he can keep the CF/60 in the high 50s, then hopefully his p/60 will follow.
 

sipowicz

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I think we're all hoping last year was just an anomaly for Little - so we're watching for a sign that he's bouncing back. I can't say I've seen one yet...but it's very early.

View attachment 145881

Focusing on offense, it looks like "Peak Little" was 2012-13 to 2015-16. His CF/60 these last two seasons were both the lowest recorded over his last 8 seasons. His peak years CF/60 was between 60-65. The last two are between 57-60. Looks like he got a little short-changed on his p/60 relative to his CF/60 last year. If he can keep the CF/60 in the high 50s, then hopefully his p/60 will follow.


Don't think Little is going to get any better at this point in his career and his career trajectory has only one direction to go!
 

Halberdier

Registered User
May 14, 2016
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It's possible because Little and Ehlers are trying to set up Laine.
Corsi is kind for shooters and cruel for play makers.
And used on a single game the player corsi is even more useless tool than it is when used on a full season scale.

You are talking about iCorsi. Individual Corsi works like that. Though I'm not sure what could be a reasonable way to calculate iCorsi%.

I have to say 64% to 47% difference is very high and odd given that they are almost glued together.
 

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