Forslund contract negotiations

[txpd]

It's not that TD CAN'T spend on both (team and off ice) it's that he values them very differently and everything needs to be quantified. If TD could get away with not having a pbp team, arena announcer and replacing the food services staff with vending machines he probably would.

As @tarheelhockey posted, his goal is to increase the value of the Hurricanes franchise and he sees the best way to do that in a measurable sense is to improve the on ice product. In terms of pbp guys, John Forslund is the Connor McDavid of it. He's the man. The problem is he could be the the worst pbp guy in the league and it likely doesn't make a tangible difference with regards to how the team is valued. It sucks because having a good pbp crew does make for a more enjoyable viewing/listening experience but if Jack Edwards became the pbp guy at league minimum (whatever that is for announcers) it likely wouldn't move the needle in either direction. People want to watch the hockey game for the hockey and they'll put up with a crappy pbp guy to do so. Having John Forslund as our pbp guy doesn't attract new fans who weren't already going to watch anyway. Making the playoffs year after year and maybe winning another cup will.

I could be wrong about all of this but this is my line of thinking on what TD is doing. He's obviously given the marketing and social media team the go ahead and drum up business with various campaigns and riding the jerk wave and all that. These types of initiatives are doing more to reach perspective fans and grow the Carolina Hurricanes brand a lot more than John Forslund calling games is. Again, it sucks because JF is great but he's a luxury and not one that can measurably equate his GOATness to adding value to the brand.

Forslund is cred. Its tangible proof of a legit top organEYEzation. Replacing the #2 guy in the entire league with a cheap studio host shows the ownership and management is bush league. Its a thing players notice.

Meanwhile quality media, marketing and sales sells corp sponsors and sells tickets. Forslund is the face and voice for that. It will hurt ticket sales.

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

Ok I’ll bite is the implication that Joe Beninati is somehow the best PBP in the league? Lol

 

[Canes]

Forslund is cred. Its tangible proof of a legit top organEYEzation. Replacing the #2 guy in the entire league with a cheap studio host shows the ownership and management is bush league. Its a thing players notice.

Meanwhile quality media, marketing and sales sells corp sponsors and sells tickets. Forslund is the face and voice for that. It will hurt ticket sales.

lol it's cute you think players care about this stuff. As long as they continue to get paid and the team is good, they couldn't care less about the off-ice product.

Also, none of the stuff you mention means jack shit without a quality product on ice. Forslund and Tripp polishing turds every night from 2010-2018 did very little in regards to actually putting people in the seats.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

I mean, the UK just came out with a vaccine candidate that should be fully effective if all the standard factors that determine immunity apply to this virus. If that pans out the rest of the way, it's very conceivable that things could reopen very quickly for those certified to be vaccinated. Will people actually return to games immediately? I know I won't, but it's not absurd to think that the timeline might allow for them to at least allow full arenas, even if few will actually fill.

Lots of big ifs in there involving distribution (and that is a massive fing challenge, though I imagine Canada will manage better than us, what with the free and convenient healthcare and a generally competent government) and whether or not the antivax nuts screw things up somehow.

We all know the morons that are complaining about wearing a mask and "trampling on their rights" are going to be the same ones refusing to get vaccinated for some (likely idiotic) reason.

 

[FlyingSquirrels]

We all know the morons that are complaining about wearing a mask and "trampling on their rights" are going to be the same ones refusing to get vaccinated for some (likely idiotic) reason.

So any that think differently than you are "morons"? I'm shocked you think that way. Totally shocked.

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

So any that think differently than you are "morons"? I'm shocked you think that way. Totally shocked.

If thinking differently means not wearing a mask in public places during this pandemic then yes, you’re a moron.

 

[txpd]

lol it's cute you think players care about this stuff. As long as they continue to get paid and the team is good, they couldn't care less about the off-ice product.

Also, none of the stuff you mention means jack shit without a quality product on ice. Forslund and Tripp polishing turds every night from 2010-2018 did very little in regards to actually putting people in the seats.

Well...dang. I think its cute that youve got an attitude. Have a nice day

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

If John was making such a salary that you could turn out ahead if you replaced him with Shaya or Maniscalco for the entirety of the twenty teens, why was cash strapped Karmanos shelling out top dollar for him? I just think this is more than $$$, one of the things mentioned has been that Dundon doesn't like to negotiate, the other thing could be that John taking ~20 games off a year to work for NBC, still another is COVID.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Well...dang. I think its cute that youve got an attitude. Have a nice day

Let’s be fair here. You’re a caps fan that basically just came into a Canes thread and called the team “bush league”. Regardless if you live in NC, you should expect that a post like that is going to get a hostile reaction. You’ve been around long enough to understand and expect that. If you wanted to have a constructive discussion, you could have easily made your point (which many would agree with) without making derogatory statements like that, but you chose not to.

 

[Surrounded By Ahos]

So any that think differently than you are "morons"? I'm shocked you think that way. Totally shocked.

Come on man, there are 1,000 things you can go either way on. Backstreet Boys or NSYNC. Ale or lager. The Office or Parks and Rec.

At this point if you aren't wearing a mask, you're the asshole.

 

[Lempo]

We all know the morons that are complaining about wearing a mask and "trampling on their rights" are going to be the same ones refusing to get vaccinated for some (likely idiotic) reason.

I'm actually quite worried of the vaccination currently. Apparently some of the prime candidates for the vaccination use the same adjuvants that were used in the Pandemrix swine flu vaccination and which are understood to have been what caused the narcolepsy as an side effect in some Nordic countries and Ireland.

I will need some serious goading to go stand in that line.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

I'm actually quite worried of the vaccination currently. Apparently some of the prime candidates for the vaccination use the same adjuvants that were used in the Pandemrix swine flu vaccination and which are understood to have been what caused the narcolepsy as an side effect in some Nordic countries and Ireland.

I will need some serious goading to go stand in that line.

I would hope they'd do their due diligence before releasing a vaccine to the widespread public. Obviously, it'll be difficult (if not impossible) to discover the long term effects a vaccine might have, but Id assume any serious short term side effects would disqualify a vaccine from being distributed.

Haven't looked a lot into it, but I know a couple articles mentioned that one if the current leading candidates for a vaccine simply has "fever and stomach illness" as the most common side effects. Which sucks and could be bad, but if it staves off COVID, probably a risk worth taking.

 

[Lempo]

I would hope they'd do their due diligence before releasing a vaccine to the widespread public. Obviously, it'll be difficult (if not impossible) to discover the long term effects a vaccine might have, but Id assume any serious short term side effects would disqualify a vaccine from being distributed.

Haven't looked a lot into it, but I know a couple articles mentioned that one if the current leading candidates for a vaccine simply has "fever and stomach illness" as the most common side effects. Which sucks and could be bad, but if it staves off COVID, probably a risk worth taking.

I think in this case what happened was that a specific Nordic genetic quirk of some kind surprisingly reacted badly with the adjuvant. I guess it'd have been close to impossible to catch it beforehand, especially with all the pandemic haste.

But if the adjuvant is the same, this time we know that there is this risk with these populations. Coronavirus has a minor chance to kill you, but getting narcolepsy is a sure way to ruin your life for good.

 

[Borsig]

Mask Karening garbage. Even in a hockey forum.

Can't even escape it here.

Wading thru 20 some odd pages.... I guess Forslund is gone then? Garbage move by Dundon.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Forslund and Tripp polishing turds every night from 2010-2018 did very little in regards to actually putting people in the seats.

And this is the game/set/match point in the argument.

Pick any metric of marketing success -- attendance, TV viewers, radio listeners, merchandise sales, ads, overall revenue -- and the Canes were a bottom-5 franchise for a decade with both Forslund AND Kaiton in place.

Individual people may have a strong sentimental attachment to certain PBP guys, and that's OK. But guess what... someone else is going to end up with a strong sentimental attachment to Maniscalco. That stuff all washes and makes near-0% difference to the bottom line. The idea that this decision will have any actual impact on how the fanbase as a whole engages with the franchise is misguided.

 

[emptyNedder]

And this is the game/set/match point in the argument.

Pick any metric of marketing success -- attendance, TV viewers, radio listeners, merchandise sales, ads, overall revenue -- and the Canes were a bottom-5 franchise for a decade with both Forslund AND Kaiton in place.

While the money is significantly lower, the same argument applies to the Storm Squad. In fact, several more profitable teams don't have cheerleaders.

So why might they still be around?

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

While the money is significantly lower, the same argument applies to the Storm Squad. In fact, several more profitable teams don't have cheerleaders.

So why might they still be around?

You answered it with the first statement in your quote, Because it costs almost nothing.

 

[tarheelhockey]

While the money is significantly lower, the same argument applies to the Storm Squad. In fact, several more profitable teams don't have cheerleaders.

So why might they still be around?

1) Because they are paid next to nothing.

2) You are comparing changing PBP guys to getting rid of the Storm Squad.

Nobody is saying we should get rid of the PBP position, just that the individual doing the job doesn't have any real bottom line impact. That also applies to specific Storm Squad members.

 

[Navin R Slavin]

You answered it with the first statement in your quote, Because it costs almost nothing.

And because it has an impact on the Ticketed Experience. Again, we keep entangling this with the broadcast experience. They are different financial animals.

 

[A Star is Burns]

Psh, who gets into physical altercations over John? Nobody. People go hardcore after those t-shirts. Bet those t-shirts have made more fans than John as well.

 

[2Minutes4Surging]

The organization managed to have everyone else but him signed on the new salary model.

Just because they signed doesn't mean they won't leave as soon as possible. John has other options. I would bet the others will exit when they have other options also.

 

[Navin R Slavin]

Just because they signed doesn't mean they won't leave as soon as possible. John has other options. I would bet the others will exit when they have other options also.

Then it's probably pretty clear who the org values most by seeing who's on that model and who isn't.

Some pieces are replaceable, and some are not.

 

[Lempo]

Just because they signed doesn't mean they won't leave as soon as possible. John has other options. I would bet the others will exit when they have other options also.

Yes. But my point was that by this move the organization cut many tens of percents off from the employee costs. If they roll back on John now, they'd be hardpressed to roll back on the others too at some near future date, and those savings. -> They won't roll back on John.

 

[emptyNedder]

Pick any metric of marketing success -- attendance, TV viewers, radio listeners, merchandise sales, ads, overall revenue -- and the Canes were a bottom-5 franchise for a decade with both Forslund AND Kaiton in place.

Nobody is saying we should get rid of the PBP position, just that the individual doing the job doesn't have any real bottom line impact. That also applies to specific Storm Squad members.

They did get rid of the radio broadcaster. The Canes were a bottom-t franchise for a decade with the Storm Squad in place.

You are missing the logic. If $100,000 is worth getting rid of Forslund, then surely $25K (my guess) is worth getting rid of something that adds no value.

 

[SlavinAway]

They did get rid of the radio broadcaster. The Canes were a bottom-t franchise for a decade with the Storm Squad in place.

You are missing the logic. If $100,000 is worth getting rid of Forslund, then surely $25K (my guess) is worth getting rid of something that adds no value.

Storm squad improves the arena experience; Dundon is all about that.