Proposal: Forsberg to MTL
- Thread starter Big Empty
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Boondock
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2 year later Stone was traded for a good prospect. At the time Brannstrom was seen as a potentially elite offensive dman. This is the exact reason a player like Caufield had less value than fans think, he could not live up to his potential. If I’m moving FF it’s not for a maybe like Caufield or Guhlie.
Mrb1p
PRICERSTOPDAPUCK
Brannstrom was a maybe, lmao ? He was evenmore of a maybe than Caufield is at this point.
Boondock
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Boondock
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I don’t really understand your point here but yes Brannstrom was seen as an elite offensive dman prospect. He was also traded for a UFA that was not coming back to Ottawa.
Mrb1p
PRICERSTOPDAPUCK
Suzuki wasn't that when he was trade, thats with two more years of development. Id trade Suzuki of two years ago who wasn't doing much in the OHL but going through the motion and who looked very average in camp. I wouldn't do it now, Suzuki may just be as good as Forsberg as of now, and if hes not, it doesnt offset the position, age and salary difference.
That's fine. I know the Habs don't want to trade any of their legitimately good prospects for a borderline elite winger, but they will eventually realize that you can't use Mete and Guhle as the key components of a trade like this.
You can only have so many untouchable players and prospects before Nashville just laughs at you.
No Suzuki
No Kotkaniemi
No Romanov
No Drouin
No Anderson
No Tofoli
No Caufield
No anybody under 30, with a pulse in our organization.. lol
Forsberg is 26 year old stud, on a reasonable deal, that could be retained, for another year and and a half. Nashville has no interest in being bad forever, after giving him away.
Last edited:
Boondock
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I can understand the argument that Suzuki’s position, level of play and years of control make him more valuable to Montreal than FF. But 2 seasons ago Suzuki was finishing his 3 consecutive 94+ point OHL season, WJC and 7 points in 4 games in the memorial cup. I would also argue that Montreal would say they had an idea what Suzuki would become when they made the trade. I’m not a Preds fan but some of the comments and value suggestions in this forum show a lack of knowledge about FF and the game he plays. A 30+ goal 26 year old under contract through next season carries significant value.
Mrb1p
PRICERSTOPDAPUCK
Yes it does, it doesn't carry Suzuki level value, sadly.
Again, show me a trade where a winger like Forsberg got a center player like Suzuki or Kotkaniemi.
Boondock
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Mrb1p
PRICERSTOPDAPUCK
They added Roslovic, Laine is 23 and Dubois wanted to leave.
Lets say Suzuki wanted out and you guys sent Arvidsson our way too, it would be similar.
Captain97
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Except stone was extended immediately just like patches...
Vegas spoke with him before the trade.
Boondock
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I’m not a Preds fan so no “you guys”. Laine wanted out too which reduced his value and Roslovic was unsigned and wanted out. If you’re comparing Arvidsson to Roslovic it may explain your lack of knowledge about other Nashville players as well.
Boondock
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And Ottawa knew they couldn’t re-sign him so they traded him instead of losing him to free agency.
Nihiliste
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Nihiliste
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There are a couple of people who don't seem to understand that its not just whether or not the acquiring team can extend a player that affects his value, but whether or not the selling team has the option of keeping him. If they can't keep him, they lose a lot of leverage.
biturbo19
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I don’t really see the point in dragging Suzuki into this. Everyone can argue the “value” back and forth ‘till they’re blue in the face...but the reality is, it’s a moot point because if the Habs are going in on a winger like Forsberg, they’re going to need their most potent offensive center in Suzuki, to actually compete. It makes zero sense to create a hole by trading him.
Even with that aside, I’d think MTL and NSH should be two fanbases who could both understand that you don’t deal good young centres for wingers...because both franchises have struggled epically to find and develop top centres over the years. You find one, you don’t let them go.
This kind of thing makes a lot more sense to me. Drouin would be a useful offensive filler piece to roll with through whatever sort of rebuild/retool the Preds are doing. And still young enough to be part of the other side if the fit is right.
And Caufield is the sort of caliber of prospect that I’d expect to see in a deal for a player of Forsberg’s ilk.
The problem is, I think Caufield can be a prettt darn polarizing prospect because of his size and the type of game he plays. Some people are going to view him substantially higher or lower in value, from person to person/one organization to the next. If Nashville view Caufield similarly to the Canadiens presumably do...cool beans, maybe there’s a deal to be made there. But if they aren’t as keen on a diminutive pure goal-scorer as a foundational building block piece of their future...other teams are going to have far more enticing prospects to offer as the centrepiece of a Forsberg deal. Unfortunately, the Habs don’t really have anything else that makes sense to offer (with Suzuki and KK off the table for completely understandable reasons), and Guhle not really doing the trick.
Even with that aside, I’d think MTL and NSH should be two fanbases who could both understand that you don’t deal good young centres for wingers...because both franchises have struggled epically to find and develop top centres over the years. You find one, you don’t let them go.
This kind of thing makes a lot more sense to me. Drouin would be a useful offensive filler piece to roll with through whatever sort of rebuild/retool the Preds are doing. And still young enough to be part of the other side if the fit is right.
And Caufield is the sort of caliber of prospect that I’d expect to see in a deal for a player of Forsberg’s ilk.
The problem is, I think Caufield can be a prettt darn polarizing prospect because of his size and the type of game he plays. Some people are going to view him substantially higher or lower in value, from person to person/one organization to the next. If Nashville view Caufield similarly to the Canadiens presumably do...cool beans, maybe there’s a deal to be made there. But if they aren’t as keen on a diminutive pure goal-scorer as a foundational building block piece of their future...other teams are going to have far more enticing prospects to offer as the centrepiece of a Forsberg deal. Unfortunately, the Habs don’t really have anything else that makes sense to offer (with Suzuki and KK off the table for completely understandable reasons), and Guhle not really doing the trick.
I don’t really see the point in dragging Suzuki into this. Everyone can argue the “value” back and forth ‘till they’re blue in the face...but the reality is, it’s a moot point because if the Habs are going in on a winger like Forsberg, they’re going to need their most potent offensive center in Suzuki, to actually compete. It makes zero sense to create a hole by trading him.
Even with that aside, I’d think MTL and NSH should be two fanbases who could both understand that you don’t deal good young centres for wingers...because both franchises have struggled epically to find and develop top centres over the years. You find one, you don’t let them go.
This kind of thing makes a lot more sense to me. Drouin would be a useful offensive filler piece to roll with through whatever sort of rebuild/retool the Preds are doing. And still young enough to be part of the other side if the fit is right.
And Caufield is the sort of caliber of prospect that I’d expect to see in a deal for a player of Forsberg’s ilk.
The problem is, I think Caufield can be a prettt darn polarizing prospect because of his size and the type of game he plays. Some people are going to view him substantially higher or lower in value, from person to person/one organization to the next. If Nashville view Caufield similarly to the Canadiens presumably do...cool beans, maybe there’s a deal to be made there. But if they aren’t as keen on a diminutive pure goal-scorer as a foundational building block piece of their future...other teams are going to have far more enticing prospects to offer as the centrepiece of a Forsberg deal. Unfortunately, the Habs don’t really have anything else that makes sense to offer (with Suzuki and KK off the table for completely understandable reasons), and Guhle not really doing the trick.
Good post in response to mine. I pretty much agree with that analysis.
A capable player like Drouin, young enough to still be around Nashville as the end of the rebuild, plus a scoring winger like Caufield and a draft pick to be negotiated seems like a win for both Montreal in the present and Nashville in the future.
Boondock
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Agree with your prospect analysis. I completely disagree with you take on Drouin. Drouin makes $5.5, only $500k less than Forsberg and he hasn’t had a 20 goal season in 5 years. Drouin is not the type of player you win with and he’s not the type of player you want setting the example for your youth during a rebuild. If I’m the Preds and the Habs want me to take Drouin as part of the return, it would be a cap dump and the return would need to take that into account.I don’t really see the point in dragging Suzuki into this. Everyone can argue the “value” back and forth ‘till they’re blue in the face...but the reality is, it’s a moot point because if the Habs are going in on a winger like Forsberg, they’re going to need their most potent offensive center in Suzuki, to actually compete. It makes zero sense to create a hole by trading him.
Even with that aside, I’d think MTL and NSH should be two fanbases who could both understand that you don’t deal good young centres for wingers...because both franchises have struggled epically to find and develop top centres over the years. You find one, you don’t let them go.
This kind of thing makes a lot more sense to me. Drouin would be a useful offensive filler piece to roll with through whatever sort of rebuild/retool the Preds are doing. And still young enough to be part of the other side if the fit is right.
And Caufield is the sort of caliber of prospect that I’d expect to see in a deal for a player of Forsberg’s ilk.
The problem is, I think Caufield can be a prettt darn polarizing prospect because of his size and the type of game he plays. Some people are going to view him substantially higher or lower in value, from person to person/one organization to the next. If Nashville view Caufield similarly to the Canadiens presumably do...cool beans, maybe there’s a deal to be made there. But if they aren’t as keen on a diminutive pure goal-scorer as a foundational building block piece of their future...other teams are going to have far more enticing prospects to offer as the centrepiece of a Forsberg deal. Unfortunately, the Habs don’t really have anything else that makes sense to offer (with Suzuki and KK off the table for completely understandable reasons), and Guhle not really doing the trick.
It's not a pure cap dump, IMO, but you're certainly not valuing Drouin as some star. Your hope, if you're Nashville, is that Drouin can either see you through the rebuild, or that you can turn around next year, play him lots and build his value, then flip him for 1st round pick to a contender in 2022, by retaining 50% of his 5.5 for the remaining year and a half... That would be excellent, prudent, asset management by Nashville.
Basically something like this for Forsberg, with a year of patience in between moves....
Caufield
1st round pick
2nd round pick
biturbo19
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The reality of today's NHL is that pretty much any deal you're making with significant salary (ie Forsberg @ $6M)...there's going to have to be a salary component going the other way. That's the only way pieces move in this flat cap gridlock world.
That's all Drouin is, or has to be in that sort of deal. He's a slightly better (and younger) version of what Tatar was supposed to be in the Pacioretty deal. A piece who carries a salary/cap hit that offsets Forsberg's, and can backfill on the Preds roster as a 20G-50pt sort of Top-6 piece.
Nashville can then either decide to keep him if it works out...or let him pump up his value in the minutes Forsberg leaves vacant, and find a deal to move him somewhere else and keep shuffling things around. There are always sucker GMs in the league hung up on draft pedigree, and really...i think you're underselling Drouin in the first place. He's a plenty useful Top-6 winger in the right situation, on a mediocre deal. He's just not the superstar people thought he'd become at the draft. But he's more than good enough to be a contributing filler piece with some potential follow-on value in a deal like this.
It's really either that, or taking on some sort of 31/32 year old $3.4M x 3 years bottom-6 spare part like Byron. At least Drouin is a contributing Top-6 Forward with some sort of potential value around the league.
I mean, in that sense...it's a personal/organizational preference thing again. Just as how you view Caufield determines whether or not there's a deal to be made there on the prospect centerpiece side...i guess how you view Drouin might influence whether you think there's a workable deal in it or not. But unless you really really personally hate Drouin and don't want him anywhere near your team for some reason...i don't think you're going to find many better "salary offset" type pieces on offer than a 25 year old Top-6 Winger on a ~$1M/10pts sort of UFA market-ish deal.
Like...pretty much anyone who would actually be in on a high cost "win now" deal for someone like Forsberg, is going to be relatively capped out. So anywhere you deal him, is going to expect Nashville to take back some sort of junk to make the salary work. At least someone like Drouin is potentially useful junk.
CatchyTune
JOHN TAVARES IS A MAPLE LEAF
everybody you listed has term. Pretty sure both Pacioretty and Stone were sign and trades. Forsberg is a rental +1 having only 1 year left
Benstheman
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I would agree on Drouin being part of the package but if he is, we can’t insert our better offensive prospect in Caufield.
At that point, I would propose :
Drouin
Guhle/Norlinder(Pred’s choice)
1st pick
And it would need to be this summer so Habs can discuss with Forsberg about an extension.
At that point, I would propose :
Drouin
Guhle/Norlinder(Pred’s choice)
1st pick
And it would need to be this summer so Habs can discuss with Forsberg about an extension.
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