Former Sabres owner nailed

[Luc Labelle]

This has got to go near the top of the list of most asinine comments made regarding the lockout. Its the players fault some owners are crooks?

Asinine will do, I was actually going for absolute ridiculous sarcasm. Just to mirror the "silly guilt by association post" I had just read.

So the owner of the subway shop was forced to criminal activity because his employees wanted raises..I get it now.

Again, only meant as an inane comment to make the sarcasm as obvious as possible.

 

[Ban Hammered]

That article was probaly written by Al Strachan or Larry Brooks. No way its true.

yeah because Reuters and CNN just wanted to smear this guy

 

[blitzkriegs]

Adelphia Communications Corp.

Federal prosecutors continued their hunt for corporate miscreants last year with a fraud trial of four former executives from Adelphia Communications Corp. At the center of the allegations stood John Rigas, the patriarch of the Rigas family who founded the nation's sixth largest cable company decades ago. His two sons, Michael and Timothy, also faced charges of looting company assets and using its bank accounts as a personal piggy-bank. A fourth executive, Michael Mulcahey, was also charged for contributing to the fraud.

The trial, which stretched over four months, was among the longest in 2004. After a string of victories for white-collar prosecutions by the Securities and Commodities Fraud Unit of the Southern District U.S. Attorney's Office, the Adelphia trial ended with a split verdict. John and Timothy Rigas were found guilty of 18 counts of securities and bank fraud and conspiracy to commit securities fraud for hiding $2.3 billion in company debt from investors and regulators and using company funds to pay for lavish personal expenses. Sentencing is scheduled for later this month.

Read On: http://www.law.com/jsp/nylj/specialsNYLJ.jsp?id=1109128225384

Buffalo Sabres books are probably fine, they only probably committed the crimes against the parent company Adelphia.

Rigas probably never considererd moving money back and forth between the Sabres and Adelphia to misrepresent actual figures .. I mean hiding 2.3 billion is no easy task after all ..

Bob Goodenow come take a look at this for yourself or can we use the fact that he was found guilt of 18 different counts that their may be a bit of a problem with the numbers ..

In fact Bettman should employ Rigas as a consultant from prison .. The NHL revenue was reported as $ 2.1 Billion and Rigas got away with hiding 2.3 Billion .. With his assistance and expertise the NHL can have the Hard Cap set at ** ZERO **even without linkage .

How does one get away with something, if they get caught?

Also, Tom Galisano bought the Sabres for a measley 92 million which included 50 mil in assumed debt. http://www.cbc.ca/pcgi-bin/templates/sportsView.cgi?/news/2003/03/13/Sports/golisano030313

That's a paltry figure compared to the 2 billion Rigas cooked the books on.

 

[Crosbyfan]

Comon, the man just wants to be able to feed his poodle! What the hell is wrong with that?

Yes, this proves that all of the players are concerned pet owners by association. We cannot call these people greedy. What do we feed our dogs? Probably dogfood just to save money so we can squander it on groceries for ourselves. Unless we feed caviar to our cats we cannot look down on these people.

Edit: and you posters without pets and that smug look can get rid of it right now... you're just as guilty as we are.

Apologies to any of you who are homeless and buy petfood for your animals when you can barely feed yourselves...but how did you get a computer and access to the net anyway? Why don't you get jobs and buy hockey tickets like you're supposed to? How do you get off thinking you're any better than the rest of us?

 

[Morbo]

Boy, the players sure are idiots for not trusting the owners' word on their revenues.

 

[mooseOAK*]

How easy is it to hide revenues anyway?

Attendance is published and ticket prices are known as well as the costs of leasing luxury boxes and those are the biggest components. Money from concessions and parking can be estimated fairly closely based on attendance.

TV contracts are based on market size so if you know what the Islanders' is then you can have a pretty good idea what Carolina's is.

It is fairly basic what money is going into the franchise and the NHLPA isn't putting much energy into challenging the numbers.

 

[SENSible1*]

Boy, the players sure are idiots for not trusting the owners' word on their revenues.

Who is suggesting the players should simply trust the owners' word?

Negotiate the definition and penalties for misreporting. Then have independant 3rd party auditors confirm the results.

A complicated negotiation, but certainly not impossible by any stretch of the imagination.

 

[Sammy*]

Boy, the players sure are idiots for not trusting the owners' word on their revenues.

Yeah, but they are apparently too stupid to hire their own forensic accountants.

 

[AM]

AKA The Buffalo Sabres.

Exactly.

The idea that most of the owners would go cheap on buying toys is funny.....

The funny part is that, that idea is most of the basis for the players implied rational for not making a deal....

Really, what are you going to spend money on(as a bachlor), your car or your breakfast nook?

 

[Mess]

Yeah, but they are apparently too stupid to hire their own forensic accountants.

The Levitt report costs the owners over 2 million in accounting fees ..

Where would the NHLPA get those funds from as they are not a business they are a union or a players association if you prefer, and do not generate revenue other than minimal Union Dues and fees from the members that go towards NHLPA Goodenow and Saskin Salaries and office costs.

They are not in the Accounting business they are more then willing to let the courts do their Super-Audit after all they did a darn fine job in the case of former owner John Rigas .. perhaps the NHLPA could suggest that the courts use the same audit team used in that case ..

NO NEED to put the money out yourself if someone else will do all the work for you when the Court does its own audit ..

Can't wait for the day that Wirtz and Jacobs books are under court review it will be like Christmas in anticipation of the findings ??

 

[shakes]

How easy is it to hide revenues anyway?

Attendance is published and ticket prices are known as well as the costs of leasing luxury boxes and those are the biggest components. Money from concessions and parking can be estimated fairly closely based on attendance.

TV contracts are based on market size so if you know what the Islanders' is then you can have a pretty good idea what Carolina's is.

It is fairly basic what money is going into the franchise and the NHLPA isn't putting much energy into challenging the numbers.

Quite easy apparently... The following is a well known quote from Paul Beeston, formerly of the Toronto Blue Jays.

Under generally accepted accounting principles, I can turn a $4 million profit into a $2 million loss and I could get every national accounting firm to agree with me."

 

[mooseOAK*]

Quite easy apparently... The following is a well known quote from Paul Beeston, formerly of the Toronto Blue Jays.

I'm talking about revenues, not profits.

 

[PecaFan]

Where would the NHLPA get those funds from as they are not a business they are a union or a players association if you prefer, and do not generate revenue other than minimal Union Dues and fees from the members that go towards NHLPA Goodenow and Saskin Salaries and office costs.

Aww, those poor men. Can't even scrape up enough pocket change to hire an auditor? Maybe they all could look under their couch cushions?

BTW, that "poor union" managed to put a $300 million lockout nest egg without even blinking.

 

[Taranis_24]

The Levitt report costs the owners over 2 million in accounting fees ..

Where would the NHLPA get those funds from as they are not a business they are a union or a players association if you prefer, and do not generate revenue other than minimal Union Dues and fees from the members that go towards NHLPA Goodenow and Saskin Salaries and office costs.

They are not in the Accounting business they are more then willing to let the courts do their Super-Audit after all they did a darn fine job in the case of former owner John Rigas .. perhaps the NHLPA could suggest that the courts use the same audit team used in that case ..

NO NEED to put the money out yourself if someone else will do all the work for you when the Court does its own audit ..

Can't wait for the day that Wirtz and Jacobs books are under court review it will be like Christmas in anticipation of the findings ??

How is this union paying 700 members $5,000 a month each during the lockout? That equates to $42M annually, or $60,000 per player annual. Where is this money coming from? I understand that players pay dues annually but I would be very surprised if dues are in the 60K range a year. I

 

[Lanny MacDonald*]

The Levitt report costs the owners over 2 million in accounting fees ..

Where would the NHLPA get those funds from as they are not a business they are a union or a players association if you prefer, and do not generate revenue other than minimal Union Dues and fees from the members that go towards NHLPA Goodenow and Saskin Salaries and office costs.

Holy smokes, you're just walking into the crossfire today, aren't you? Where would the players come up with $2 million dollars? How about a .01% tax on the salaries of the membership? I think they should be able to afford that? Especially when the union is thumping their chest that that the NHL is hiding hundreds of millions of dollars in revenues that the players should be getting a cut (based on the accusation that the five teams that were auditted by the NHLPA were "hiding" $60 million in revenues). Spend $2 million dollars to make $300 million dollars? Nawww, what a STUPID suggestion. And we wonder why the players are in the position they are?

They are not in the Accounting business they are more then willing to let the courts do their Super-Audit after all they did a darn fine job in the case of former owner John Rigas .. perhaps the NHLPA could suggest that the courts use the same audit team used in that case ..

Ever hear of out-sourcing?

NO NEED to put the money out yourself if someone else will do all the work for you when the Court does its own audit ..

And that's going to happen when? The NHLPA will have enough troubles defending themselves in front of the NLRB with the charges levelled against them let alone trying to get the court to look at the NHL's books, which the players have historicaklly REFUSED to look at themselves.

Can't wait for the day that Wirtz and Jacobs books are under court review it will be like Christmas in anticipation of the findings ??

You might be disappointed when you find Santa left you nothing but a big chunk of coal, and a CBA shoved right down your throat!

 

[Cawz]

Well that proves it ... An Owner would never lie or hide Revenue ..

Come on NHLPA .. Lets hitch you wagon to this type of behaviour .. This is a former owner, hate to see what the current ones are doing ??

Bruce McNall would be another fine example of a former owner that is squeaky clean..

or CNN

I totally trust the current owners...don't you??

Boy, the players sure are idiots for not trusting the owners' word on their revenues.

Do you guys realize how sad it looks when you grasp at anything to help your opinion?

 

[Exisled]

I'm talking about revenues, not profits.

Psssst.....

You turn a profit into a loss by "hiding" revenues while exaggerating expenditures.

 

[Timmy]

Psssst.....

You turn a profit into a loss by "hiding" revenues while exaggerating expenditures.

Or, changing the fiscal in which an expense is reported or bad debt is written off.

Depreciation rates, current vs. capital expenditures, interest payment, lessors/lessees, management expenses, bonuses vs. deemed dividends, one-time exenditures, etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc

"Hiding" revenues, or allocating revenues?

"Exaggerating" expenditures or front-loading them?

Is it your contention that the owners, collectively and/or individually, with the help, guidance, and approval of their CPAs (CAs in Canada) and auditors, are intentionally defrauding their governments?

Or, are you suggesting that there are many legal ways in which to "hide" revenue and "exaggerate" expenses?

I need to know, because I've got about twenty clients who'd love to hear from me with these new GAAPs I wasn't aware of.

 

[Mess]

Is it your contention that the owners, collectively and/or individually, with the help, guidance, and approval of their CPAs (CAs in Canada) and auditors, are intentionally defrauding their governments?

Or, are you suggesting that there are many legal ways in which to "hide" revenue and "exaggerate" expenses?

I need to know, because I've got about twenty clients who'd love to hear from me with these new GAAPs I wasn't aware of.

As you know many of these NHL owners have their Hockey team under the umbrella of a parent company ..

With that said Revenue and Expenses can occur with inter-company transactions particularly when their is a known link like Luxury Suit used year round but the Hockey part no broken out correctly as an example..

Your question about defrauding the Government does not even have to be an issue .. If an owner reports all financial information for income tax purposes for the whole company then its irrelevant to the Government in which company directly it is coming from with in reason unless it benefits you via Tax write-offs ..

But If one Company has a Hard Cap based on Revenue and your Cable Company or other shared company does not .. Then its in the best interest of the Owner to understate Hockey Revenue and overstate cable revenue in this example .. Gov't gets its cut legally but the NHLPA and the Hard Cap is directly effected by this manoeuvre via accountants by a few creative accounting inter-company journal entries ..

 

[Timmy]

As you know many of these NHL owners have their Hockey team under the umbrella of a parent company ..

With that said Revenue and Expenses can occur with inter-company transactions particularly when their is a known link like Luxury Suit used year round but the Hockey part no broken out correctly as an example..

Your question about defrauding the Government does not even have to be an issue .. If an owner reports all financial information for income tax purposes for the whole company then its irrelevant to the Government in which company directly it is coming from with in reason unless it benefits you via Tax write-offs ..

But If one Company has a Hard Cap based on Revenue and your Cable Company or other shared company does not .. Then its in the best interest of the Owner to understate Hockey Revenue and overstate cable revenue in this example .. Gov't gets its cut legally but the NHLPA and the Hard Cap is directly effected by this manoeuvre via accountants by a few creative accounting inter-company journal entries ..

Could the league and NHLPA not simply agree to an allocation of revenue?

ie, luxury box revenue on game nights, regardless of ownership, count towards the figure? All TV revenue, whether the owner owns the outlet or not, coutns towards the figure. 50% of concessions, etc etc.

We allocate an equalization expense, for instance, for a corporation that has multiple branches. If one branch is in a company-owned building, and another branch is in a leased premises, we do not say that the leasing branch has to make X more than the owning branch. Instead, we allocate a lease cost to the owning branch as well, to even things up when deciding how profitable they are.

 

[Mess]

You might be disappointed when you find Sanata left you nothing but a big chunk of coal, and a CBA shoved right down your throat!

I am just a fan .. The outcome of the CBA has no bearing on me. I am not tied to Owners declared Revenue for my income ..

You have to learn to separate comments made on a Message board by fans and how it will effect the actual people involved ..

You sound like you have lost all sense of reality by your comments ..

Earth to Iconoclast come in please ..

Here you really need to read this and edicate yourself and that will really help you in the future ..

http://ordinaryleastsquare.typepad.com/dubi/2004/03/reading_compreh.html

 

[Mess]

Could the league and NHLPA not simply agree to an allocation of revenue?

ie, luxury box revenue on game nights, regardless of ownership, count towards the figure? All TV revenue, whether the owner owns the outlet or not, coutns towards the figure. 50% of concessions, etc etc.

We allocate an equalization expense, for instance, for a corporation that has multiple branches. If one branch is in a company-owned building, and another branch is in a leased premises, we do not say that the leasing branch has to make X more than the owning branch. Instead, we allocate a lease cost to the owning branch as well, to even things up when deciding how profitable they are.

Sure in some area's you could sit down and set rules .. but who is to say owners would agree to that .. ?? Or if that accurately states true Revenue .. a Hockey Game, Rock Concert and Basketball Game would all have different true revenues and nearly impossible to trace .. In fact if the luxury suit counts the same for each home game towards revenue then how can the NHL claim revenue is going down if its set at a fixed price regardless of filled or empty .. Even attendance figures can be massaged, as we all know often more tickets are given out then fans show up .. Who would do an actual head count per game to determine if they are correct if you are using them in your 50% of concession splits ..

Right I have allocated similarly in the past for inter-company transactions .. but that is often when its irrelevant to outside issues like a Hard Cap in this discussion .. Owners always want a true reflection of each individual companies financial status for decision making purposes, yet for other reporting purposes particularly for non Gov't reports those figures can be altered to and that is the Levitt URO issue as there is no fraud charge possibilities or even Accountability for the accuracy of the numbers provided for the report ..

You are also aware that these inter-company transactions often get lost in confusion when you are preparing the Consolidated Financial Statements and these very transactions are excluded for purpose of not over/double stating duplicate entries.. and as such these creative accounting entries are often lost in the shuffle..

 

[Lanny MacDonald*]

Here you really need to read this and edicate yourself and that will really help you in the future ..

http://ordinaryleastsquare.typepad.com/dubi/2004/03/reading_compreh.html

What a load of garbage. Quick, point me to the site that names the Kennedy assassin too! You're rolling today!

 

[A Good Flying Bird*]

And who was charged and what company got smoked? Was it the Buffalo Sabres? No, it was Adelphia Communications. The Sabres got screwed over because of the illegal activities within Adelphia, not the other way around. Adelphia was not syphoning money off of the Sabres, so it was not the Sabres trying to hide money. Maybe we should stop paying players millions of dollars a year because Mike Modano can't seem to manage his finances very well? I mean, who in their right mind wants to get into any business relationship with a guy that can't manage his millions and then crys poor whe he can't feed his dog for $300 a week?

What a pathetic argument.

Modano may be a bad investor and he may even be stupid. But he screwed HIMSELF.
He didn't deliberately and intentionally screw over other people.

There's a huge difference.

 

[Icey]

What a pathetic argument.

Modano may be a bad investor and he may even be stupid. But he screwed HIMSELF.
He didn't deliberately and intentionally screw over other people.

There's a huge difference.

Mike's problems was that he trusted someone who he thought was looking after his best interests, when it turned out nothing could have been further than the truth. Mike has moved on, he has hired a new agent, dealt with his financial problems (which according to Modano were not as bad as were reported) and has moved on with his life. It's amazing that there are still posters here that almost 2 years later can't seem to move on from it.

And like you said what happened in Mike's life affected Mike and only Mike. In no way did he intentionally or even unintentionally screw over other people, again something some people can't seem to grasp.

Sorry but it really gets so old.