Former prospects depth vs. present day

[Ziostilon]

Goaltenders

Former | Present Day Alexander Auld | Eddie Jan Läck |
Robert McVicar | Joe Cannata |

Forwards

Former | Present Day Nathan Smith | Alex Friesen |
Jesse Schultz | Alexandre Grenier |
Brandon Reid | Bill Sweatt |
Jason King | Anton Rodin |
Jason Jaffray | Darren Archibald |
Alexandre Bolduc | Alexandre Mallet |
Michael S. Brown | Wesley Myron |
Tyler Bouck | Stefan Schneider |
Rick Rypien | Joseph Labate |
Lee Goren | Brendan Gaunce |
Mario Bliznak | Ludwig Blomstrand |
Pierre-Cédric Labrie | Guillaume Desbiens |
Marc-André Bernier | Steven Anthony |
Brandon Nolan | Kellan Tochkin |

Defencemen

Former | Present Day Nathan McIver | Kevin Connauton |
Shaun Heshka | Adam Polasek |
Daniel Rahimi | Henrik Tommernes |
Patrick Coulombe | Yann Sauve |
??? | Frank Corrado |
??? | Peter Andersson |
??? | Jeremy Price |
??? | Patrick McNally |
??? | Evan McEneny |

Heres a start to a discussion about the prospect pool of the former years compared to what this club has now.
Just a quick note: the tables aren't in order, so I'm not directly comparing one player against another.
Look at the forward pool, my question to you is... has it got any better now than the former years. It just doesn't look like theres been a significant facelift

There seems to be more promise in the defensive pool. When you look at the question marks. My feeling is that was the reason why this franchise couldn't roll out the Brinks truck for guys like Ryan Suter and Shea Weber. This club had no depth at that position, let alone any that could dream of permanent stay in the big leagues.

Click to read more...

 

[Vankiller Whale]

Why aren't Jensen and Gaunce and maybe Schroeder on there?

 

[canuck4life16]

right now it far superior in goal and defenseman than the past.......ugly ugly back then

 

[thepuckmonster]

I'd say Weise isn't a prospect anymore if Tanev isn't.

 

[JumpierPegasus]

Weise and Sestito aren't exactly prospects...

Replace them with Schroeder, Jensen and Gaunce.

I feel like we badly mismanaged our prospects in the past. I was excited about Reid, and King. I feel like we develop better now.

I like todays crop, especially on defense and in goal

 

[Ziostilon]

Why aren't Jensen and Gaunce and maybe Schroeder on there?

Because the top end of the prospect pool has been discussed to death

I wanted to take a look at the depth

thats why Michael Grabner wasn't on there. nor is Cory Schneider, Hansen, Burrows, Bieksa, Edler, Kesler...

 

[JumpierPegasus]

Chad Brownlee (he is now a country music artist)
Kris Fredheim (Played 3 games for Minnesota Wild last year)
Denis Grot (KHL)

Those were about all we really had back then for guys under 25 looking to crack the NHL in terms of depth on defense

 

[canuck4life16]

wow it said that none of the past prospect are still in the NHL.......tells a lot about the poor drafting and developing

 

[jigsaw99]

Might as well add Edler, Hansen, Raymond, Kesler on there too if you gonna add Jensen, Guance, Schreoder

 

[jigsaw99]

Chad Brownlee (he is now a country music artist)
Kris Fredheim (Played 3 games for Minnesota Wild last year)
Denis Grot (KHL)

Those were about all we really had back then for guys under 25 looking to crack the NHL in terms of depth on defense

Edler and Bieska?

Kriil Koltsov would of made it made he not jumped to Russia.

 

[JumpierPegasus]

Edler and Bieska?

Kriil Koltsov would of made it made he not jumped to Russia.

He said just depth guys in thr system which is why there is no Kesler, Bieksa, Edler, Schneider. Or Kassian, Schroeder, Jensen or Gaunce

Question is, what year is it in the past? Who are still prospects?

 

[deckercky]

Every team's old prospect pools look terrible when you take out all the successful prospects.

 

[jigsaw99]

He said just depth guys in thr system which is why there is no Kesler, Bieksa, Edler, Schneider. Or Kassian, Schroeder, Jensen or Gaunce

Question is, what year is it in the past? Who are still prospects?

Bieska and Edler was projected as depth guys when they got drafted. It's not like they are 1st or even 2nd round picks. Both are no different than Corrado today.

 

[Cocoa Crisp]

OP: it's a weird list because many of the old prospects are from different times. Auld and Rahimi for example didn't come close to overlapping.

 

[Win One Before I Die]

Slightly less awful now...

 

[thepuckmonster]

I think the gap between our high-end (Kesler, Edler, etc) and low end (White, Ellington, Rahimi) was much greater before. Now we have less low end guys and I wouldn't call any of our prospects aside from Jensen 'high end'.

So I guess it's 6 of the one and half a dozen of the other.

 

[CanaFan]

Not to nitpick, but this comparison doesn't make a whole lotta sense. On one hand you pull all of the successful prospects out of the "past prospects" list ... Hansen, Edler, Raymond ... guys who - AT THE TIME - would have been "depth" guys but then you put in guys like Gaunce, Lack, and Connauton who are best prospects outside of Schroeder and Jensen. How could today's list NOT look miles better? Plus by removing all the guys who succeeded, you will have - by definition - a pool of busts. We "know" Reid busted. We "don't know" that Rodin will bust, simply b/c not enough time has passed to conclusively say either way. Very strange way to look at things ...

 

[Ziostilon]

JumpierPegasus, was saying that Sestito and Weise aren't considered as prospects anymore, and I should slot Gaunce in instead. I tried to stay away from the high profile guys as much as possible

I think we shouldn't get carried away here. We could count on one hand the prospects that didn't bust: Hansen, Raymond, Burrows, Bieksa, Edler
Now compare that to the list. Those on the list are not even remotely close to the successful prospects. there is a huge gap between the top end and the shallow end of the pool

 

[CanaFan]

JumpierPegasus, was saying that Sestito and Weise aren't considered as prospects anymore, and I should slot Gaunce in instead. I tried to stay away from the high profile guys as much as possible

I think we shouldn't get carried away here. We could count on one hand the prospects that didn't bust: Hansen, Raymond, Burrows, Bieksa, Edler
Now compare that to the list. Those on the list are not even remotely close to the successful prospects. there is a huge gap between the top end and the shallow end of the pool

It's really hard to make any sort of assessment of the current prospects however. We know that Hodgson made the NHL and is doing well. Schroeder is breaking in and things are looking good for him, but he is by no means a "surefire" NHLer yet. The rest of that list is really a lot of quantity but few of any serious quality. I'm sure we all have hopes for guys like Lack, Corrado, and Labate, but I've watched prospects look as good or better over the past 20 years only to see them fail to stick in the NHL. Players can look good at every level before the NHL - college, OHL, AHL - but the jump to the NHL is orders of magnitude higher than any of these. I'm firmly in the don't-count-your-chickens-before-they've-hatched camp when it comes to all the optimism around Gillis' drafting. It may turn out a player or two when all is said and done, but I certainly don't see any slam dunks in that list. People really shouldn't underrate just how good Nonis' drafting from 2004-2007 was. One horrible draft (2007) should not be the sole measure of his tenure. The fact that we got 5 above average NHLers - Schneider, Edler, Hansen, Raymond, Grabner (and would have likely had a 6th in Bourdon) - out of just 4 drafts is well above the NHL norm.

 

[604]

Doesn't it just make sense to do this (even if not an exact list):

Canucks top 20 - August 2003: (per Hockey's Future)
1. Kirill Koltsov
2. RJ Umberger
3. Brandon Reid
4. Alex Auld
5. Ryan Kesler
6. Lukas Mensator
7. Jesse Schultz
8. Fedor Fedorov
9. Evgeny Gladskikh
10. Jason King
11. Denis Grot
12. Kevin Bieksa
13. MA Bernier
14. Brandon Nolan
15. Mikko Jokela
16. Rene Vydarney
17. Brett Skinner
18. Nathan Smith
19. Justin Morrison
20. Ty Morris


Canucks top 20 - Fall 2007: (per Hockey's Future)
1. Cory Schneider, G
2. Alexander Edler, D
3. Luc Bourdon, D
4. Pat White, C
5. Michael Grabner, RW
6. Mason Raymond, LW
7. Jannik Hansen, RW
8. Juraj Simek, RW
9. Daniel Rahimi, D
10. Taylor Ellington, D
11. Sergei Shirokov, LW
12. Rick Rypien, C
13. Ryan Shannon, C
14. Julien Ellis, G
15. Nathan McIver, D
16. Mario Bliznak, C
17. Kris Fredheim, D
18. Ilja Kablukov, LW
19. Patrick Coulombe, D
20. Taylor Matson, C

Canucks top 20 - March 2013: (per Hockey's Future)
1. Nicklas Jensen
2. Eddie Lack
3. Jordan Schroeder
4. Brendan Gaunce
5. Frank Corrado
6. Kevin Connauton
7. Anton Rodin
8. Alex Grenier
9. Patrick McNally
10. Alex Mallet
11. Joseph Labate
12. Joe Cannata
13. Yann Suave
14. Adam Polasek
15. Henrik Tommernes
16. Alex Friesen
17. Jeremy Price
18. Bill Sweat
19. David Honzik
20. Ben Hutton

(note: Andersson didn't make the list, I'd probably put him ahead of Connaughton)

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2007 looks better than 2003 and IMO better than now. In the end though, they are all pretty close IMO espeically when you consider that we had two 21 year-olds who graduated on our roster at the time of the 2003 list (Sedins).

 

[RobertKron]

How the **** is Andersson not on the March 2013 list? Jesus.

Archibald is missing, too.

 

[RobertKron]

Also, the OP doesn't really make sense. PC Labrie, for example, hadn't even signed by the time Brandon Reid played his last game in the Canucks' system, at age 26.

 

[Dado]

Doesn't it just make sense to do this (even if not an exact list):

Yes, it does.

But then that shows Burke/Nonis actually did a pretty good job, which runs counter to prevailing HF wisdom.

 

[thepuckmonster]

Yes, it does.

But then that shows Burke/Nonis actually did a pretty good job, which runs counter to prevailing HF wisdom.

I always liked Burke's drafting, he's quite good at that. I hated his arrogance and his inability properly fix large holes (COUGH GOALTENDING COUGH).

I hate Nonis for giving away picks like candy on Halloween for bad players. Like him a lot for acquiring Luongo and finding Hansen, Edler, Raymond. Not a great drafter but he's not awful.

Pat Quinn and Messier. Just always remember those days.

 

[LeftCoast]

The Canucks really got screwed by drafting Russians.

None of the Russians they drafted between 2000 and 2007 played significant time in the NHL:

• Paval Duma - 0 games
• Fedor Fedorov - 18 games
• Konstantin Mikhailov - 0 games
• Denis Grot - 0 games
• Ilya Krikunov - 0 games
• Sergei Topol - 0 games
• Sergei Shirokov - 8 games
• Ilya Kablukov - 0 games

So a grand total of 26 games out of 8 players. Now granted most of these were 6th 7th and 8th round picks, but Koltsov and Grot were 2nd rounders and Fedorov was a 3rd. It's not a case of bad scouting, most of these players are/were talented far above their draft position, but it was a case of misreading the market: the rise of the RSL/KHL as a competitive league and the lack of interest in Russian players for developing in the AHL and earning a spot on an NHL roster.

Over the same period out of later rounds we got Jannik Hansen (9th round) and Kevin Bieksa (5th) who are core players and Mike Brown (5th), Jason King (7th) and Nathan McIver (8th) who at least inviduualy played more games than all of the Russians combined.

Then there was 2007 - a disaster on every possible level.