News Article: Former players tell The Athletic about CBJ as an organization

DarkandStormy

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AS someone else noted, Player Number 3 talked about the cannon and the large, football like crowd and how amazing it was. THAT IS DUCHENE.

Duchene gave that same EXACT quote in a Dispatch article during the playoff series win over Tampa. Player 3 also talked about winning the series against Tampa and how he was looking to keep building on it the following year but was shocked that he never received any kind of offer. Player 3 is Duchene. I am certain about that. The other two, I am not so sure. I thought one of them could be Vanek.

We had a great season. We were so excited about the future. And then after a bunch of us players had our (exit) meetings, we were sitting around in the room just kind of stunned. “Wait. Am I going to be back? Shouldn’t we all be back?” And a bunch of us kind of realized that was it, we were moving on. I was sad as hell, to be honest.

They "cleared the air" before June/July of 2019. Remember...they "got it out in the open" or whatever in March? So it wouldn't have been surprising if in May 2019, Player 3 learned a bunch of dudes wouldn't be back. Player 3 also said he "wanted to stay here" but Hedger, Portzline, and Cam Atkinson are on the record saying Duchene was only signing with Nashville on July 1, 2019.
I would have signed in Columbus for less than I got on the market.

Duchene was offered more than what he got in Nashville, per Brian Hedger.

Unless we think Porty falsified these accounts, Duchene isn't Player 3. I do think Porty probably edited the language to keep it vague enough to keep us guessing. We can sort of narrow it down to a list of 5-6 guys if he didn't change the core pieces of information. Those names are all in this thread. But Duchene doesn't fit the bill unless one of the anonymous players was lying or Porty materially changed the answers.
 

Stubu

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I have the awful feeling from those snippets that this is something Finns are traditionally very bad at. We tend to make good technical engineers and poor people managers. Even hardwired in the pedantry oriented lingo (that is typically on the "descriptive" end in academic comparos).

I could imagine Kekalainen looking at trades and values and long term plans, and completely ignoring, not even being really aware of, what these players are talking about and laying out in these articles.

I see what Jar-Jar Keks has done and it's a sorta impressive career too, but the front office might need an Assistant GM who is just not that. And relegate Kekalainen to more clerical duties; at least not interfacing the players or even their agents. This is probably an impossible ask, orgs don't have that built in.

He has his creds for sure but I feel he's very much a part of the problem -- and can't help it if he saw it and tried.

Amusingly (or not) a player's coach like Jalonen who is used to sharing half of the GM stuff (as in the NT the GM is more of an assistant to the boss) might help... But an easier way to go might be to part company with Jarmo too.

Just my completely armchair opinions. Grown a liking for this aspiring team I think a few years ago and I love the cannon. :nod:
 
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majormajor

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I have the awful feeling from those snippets that this is something Finns are traditionally very bad at. We tend to make good technical engineers and poor people managers. Even hardwired in the pedantry oriented lingo (that is typically on the "descriptive" end in academic comparos).

I could imagine Kekalainen looking at trades and values and long term plans, and completely ignoring, not even being really aware of, what these players are talking about and laying out in these articles.

I see what Jar-Jar Keks has done and it's a sorta impressive career too, but the front office might need an Assistant GM who is just not that. And relegate Kekalainen to more clerical duties; at least not interfacing the players or even their agents. This is probably an impossible ask, orgs don't have that built in.

He has his creds for sure but I feel he's very much a part of the problem -- and can't help it if he saw it and tried.

Amusingly (or not) a player's coach like Jalonen who is used to sharing half of the GM stuff (as in the NT the GM is more of an assistant to the boss) might help... But an easier way to go might be to part company with Jarmo too.

Just my completely armchair opinions. Grown a liking for this aspiring team I think a few years ago and I love the cannon. :nod:

Jarmo certainly fits that icy-Finn stereotype. If I can add a bit of context here, all of the problems we had that are described in the article occurred when we had John Davidson as President and Bill Zito as assistant GM (handling all contract negotiations). Those two can be very outwardly warm and gregarious. And those two, and Jarmo, are all well thought of around the league.

What that all means, that's up to you. I look at that and think it's not a personnel issue. We need our people to learn from this. You could hire new warmer personnel and they could make the same mistakes.
 

Iron Balls McGinty

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Duchene was offered more than what he got in Nashville, per Brian Hedger.

.

I wish I could find where or remember who I heard this from but I could have sworn I saw something from a reliable source who said we never even offered him a contract.

Maybe I'm wrong.
 

EDM

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Portzline is on record as saying Duchene never received an offer from the Jackets.
 

Mayor Bee

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I'd like it if Jarmo was kinder and gentler. I want him to build a more familial organization. I'm also not sure how much it matters. Is anyone going to dare tell Lou Lamoriello to soften his edges?

Your list of players you wished we kept is shorter than mine. Panarin and Dubois didn't give Jarmo a choice, so they're in a separate category.

Start with Derek Mackenzie back in 2014. Remember Jarmo replacing the great 4th line he inherited with Campbell, Gibbons, Tropp, etc...?There's also the now infamous "hammer" laid on Anderson in 2017.

Then there are instances where Jarmo went along with Torts publicly insulting players or otherwise pushing them away. Calvert in 2018 was a senseless loss. Duclair the next year was never that big of a liability that Torts made him out to be. He'd be a huge add if we had him now.

I don't remember them all but there are a few.

You can go back a year further, to telling leading scorer Vinny Prospal that he wasn't going to be offered a contract.

Prospal wasn't as productive as he had been in his prime, but he could still produce and he still set a solid example for the younger players. And on a roster with a lot of turnover and a lot of young players trying to find their way, even offering him a contract was apparently too much.
 
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Cyclones Rock

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You can go back a year further, to telling leading scorer Vinny Prospal that he wasn't going to be offered a contract.

Prospal wasn't as productive as he had been in his prime, but he could still produce and he still set a solid example for the younger players. And on a roster with a lot of turnover and a lot of young players trying to find their way, even offering him a contract was apparently too much.
I'd forgotten about that Jarmo pas. Thanks for the reminder.
 

DJA

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I'd forgotten about that Jarmo pas. Thanks for the reminder.

The Prospal situation was more like a "Howson pas". He stupidly promised Prospal an "evergreen" contract with a job in the front office when he decided to retire. Problem is, Howson didn't make it another season. When Jarmo and JD came in, they had no need to honor this silly gentleman's agreement.
 

Cyclones Rock

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The Prospal situation was more like a "Howson pas". He stupidly promised Prospal an "evergreen" contract with a job in the front office when he decided to retire. Problem is, Howson didn't make it another season. When Jarmo and JD came in, they had no need to honor this silly gentleman's agreement.
That's cool.

I'll keep piling on Howson then:laugh:
 
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Mayor Bee

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The Prospal situation was more like a "Howson pas". He stupidly promised Prospal an "evergreen" contract with a job in the front office when he decided to retire. Problem is, Howson didn't make it another season. When Jarmo and JD came in, they had no need to honor this silly gentleman's agreement.

The team missed the playoffs by a single point, and the new regime simply decided that they didn't need the leading scorer and team leader at all. The only silly part was determining that a guy who was still productive wasn't even worth offering a contract to, apparently banking on being able throw enough money away in free agency to lure someone.

And with the money saved by not insuring Horton's contract at all, they could have brought Prospal back too.
 

majormajor

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The Prospal situation was more like a "Howson pas". He stupidly promised Prospal an "evergreen" contract with a job in the front office when he decided to retire. Problem is, Howson didn't make it another season. When Jarmo and JD came in, they had no need to honor this silly gentleman's agreement.

Not sure I follow.

So the problem with that situation was not that we let our top scorer go, but that we had told him that we wouldn't do that?

Yeah I'm not buying it.
 

majormajor

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Is it true that Jarmo offered Panarin more to stay than he accepted in NY. Losing Bread & PLD are the two that matter. Duchene already had a house in Nashville, & he wanted to sing in a band right?

Yes. I believe the report was $12m x 8.
 

punk_o_holic

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Is it true that Jarmo offered Panarin more to stay than he accepted in NY. Losing Bread & PLD are the two that matter. Duchene already had a house in Nashville, & he wanted to sing in a band right?
A quick search and apparently the offer was 8 years, $96 million. It was the last ditch effort by Jarmo as it was hours before July 1st. I think Panarin's cap hit is $11.6 where as it would have been $12 million if he took the Columbus offer.
 

CBJWerenski8

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Item #1: What’s in the water?

The loss of impact players in recent seasons has been absolutely devastating for the Blue Jackets. The only way it could get worse is if the organization doesn’t do everything in its power to figure out what’s gone wrong and take tangible steps to change.

That task is underway.

It started with a heart-to-heart meeting between the Blue Jackets’ leadership core and general manager Jarmo Kekalainen after the season. The overarching complaint appears to be that a detachment has formed between the front office and the dressing room, such that they seem to operate (on good days) as two independent entities, not one force pulling in the same direction.

It has continued since John Davidson was rehired as president of hockey operations. Davidson could be dubbed the Soother in Chief, because he has a calming presence of a favorite uncle. The fans trust him.

“I can’t get into it right now because I don’t want to say we’re going to do something if we’re not right away able to follow through on it,” Davidson told The Athletic this week. “There are a number of things we’re going to do with the organization to improve the players’ experience and their families’ experience.

“We’re not blind to trying to make it better in all areas. Most people will turn around after they’ve moved along after playing in Columbus and say it’s a great place to play, but we’re going to make it even better.”

This requires a delicate hand because the prime-time players who have departed over the last two offseasons have done so, mostly, under different circumstances. In some cases, it’s never been explained.

“It’s hard to quantify,” Davidson said. “It’s hard to sit here and say we have to change the Columbus Blue Jackets’ reputation, because sometimes the headline is louder than the story, as you know. Sometimes players have every right to go where they want to go. (Alex) Pietrangelo left the Blues (two years) after they won a Cup.

“I don’t feel like I have to sit here and beg people to come to play for the Columbus Blue Jackets. It’s a hell of a city, it’s a very good organization with superb ownership and it’s up to us to roll up our sleeves and build it the way it needs to be built, and make sure we do our best to treat the players and their families the proper way.”

If there were a straight line to draw through all of these situations, the fix would be easy. Or at least easier.
Artemi Panarin wanted to live in New York and play for the Rangers, Sergei Bobrovsky wanted to be the NHL’s highest-paid goaltender and Matt Duchene wanted to make country music when he’s not on skates.
Of those three, the Blue Jackets only made a serious attempt to keep Panarin. As for the other two, there are no regrets.

The second wave of losses has been much more damaging, not just to the Blue Jackets’ lineup but to the organization’s perception across the league.

Josh Anderson was miffed with the organization ever since a contention negotiation coming out of his entry-level deal. Pierre-Luc Dubois has never said why he decided so abruptly that he needed to leave the Blue Jackets. These two sting because they were Blue Jackets’ draft picks.

Seth Jones’ decision to not sign a contract extension with the Blue Jackets this summer — he’s an unrestricted free agent in 2022 — is just the latest blow, but he hasn’t explained his decision, either.

“We’ve found some unique situations,” said Blue Jackets legend Rick Nash, now the club’s director of player development. “It’s tough. But the conversation (about Columbus) needs to change.

“You put a good team together (four straight playoff berths) and you think it would do that, but sometimes it takes more.”

Blue Jackets players had significant input in the hiring of new coach Brad Larsen. They’ve been given a considerable say in the blueprints for the remodeling project in the dressing room, which is currently underway.

The organization last week announced the hiring of former Blue Jackets players Mark Letestu and Derek Dorsett to their player development staff. Not only do they have vast NHL experience with multiple organizations, but they chose to retire in Columbus.

The club’s alumni association, led by former player and current broadcaster Jody Shelley, is planning to be more active and prominent, too. There are roughly 15 former NHL players who call Columbus home, and the Jackets plan to involve them.

It bears watching to see what other changes the Blue Jackets decide to implement, but now is the perfect time for change within the organization. If they don’t fix what’s wrong, only the names will change when the process repeats itself a few years from now.

“One of the big things is to get (back) to winning, and to get to winning you’ve got to do it the right way,” Davidson said. “We’ve talked about this a lot. We’re going to, as an organization, do a lot of things.

“It began before I came back (from the New York Rangers in May). We’ve had a lot of conversations and there are a lot of ideas, which is good. You’re always learning and growing, right?”

Blue Jackets Sunday Gathering: Finding and fixing the problems, an important new role for Rick Nash
 

Double-Shift Lasse

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MrKriben

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Sorry for now following your subforum that much so I don't know if the information was previously known (probably was) but in the Swedish Newspaper Expressen William Karlsson tells them that Blue Jackets paid Vegas a first and a second if they picked Karlsson and not someone else that was exposed in that entry draft.
In hindsight it sounds a horrible deal for you guys but perhaps the guy that was "keept" was worth it?
 

majormajor

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Sorry for now following your subforum that much so I don't know if the information was previously known (probably was) but in the Swedish Newspaper Expressen William Karlsson tells them that Blue Jackets paid Vegas a first and a second if they picked Karlsson and not someone else that was exposed in that entry draft.
In hindsight it sounds a horrible deal for you guys but perhaps the guy that was "keept" was worth it?

That's quite the exaggeration.

Vegas charged a 1st to take on David Clarkson's contract. A 2nd was paid so that they would take Karlsson instead of Josh Anderson.
 

koteka

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That's quite the exaggeration.

Vegas charged a 1st to take on David Clarkson's contract. A 2nd was paid so that they would take Karlsson instead of Josh Anderson.

The interesting thing is that they are now playing against each other in a meaningful series.

Karlsson 0 g 3 a +1
Anderson 2 g 1 a +1

I’d say Karlsson was the better player early in the series, but Anderson has been better in the last few games.
 

CBJWerenski8

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That's quite the exaggeration.

Vegas charged a 1st to take on David Clarkson's contract. A 2nd was paid so that they would take Karlsson instead of Josh Anderson.

This is correct (also kept them from taking JJ, and korpisalo) which makes it even more mind blowing how they treated Anderson in contract negotiations
 
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Now that we have some quotes, any guesses who’s who?

I have some thoughts about the quotes too but I don’t have time to posts them right now.
Player #1? How about Jack Johnson? Portzline had a good relationship with him so much that he sat down with him and gave him a pretty deep look into his bankruptcy. He's been around long enough to talk about playing 15 years ago. Player #2 is likely a journeyman. Maybe Calvert or Golobuef? I thought #3 was probably Derek Mackenzie but it looks like he didn't play for Tortorella. It might be Mark Letestu or could be Brandon Saad or even Ryan Murray.
 
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Of course these conversations are necessary but if we're going to give JD credit for them, shouldn't we ask how such an astute mind managed to work here for however-many years earlier and let this stuff happen?
I think JD was a part of the problem. He took a tough stance in public on RFA negotiations going back to Bob and Johansen. I suspect he's a charming man, but a real hard ass behind the scenes.
 

Viqsi

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Player #1? How about Jack Johnson? Portzline had a good relationship with him so much that he sat down with him and gave him a pretty deep look into his bankruptcy. He's been around long enough to talk about playing 15 years ago. Player #2 is likely a journeyman. Maybe Calvert or Golobuef? I thought #3 was probably Derek Mackenzie but it looks like he didn't play for Tortorella. It might be Mark Letestu or could be Brandon Saad or even Ryan Murray.
I went through it and here are my notes - altho it's worth noting that my deductions ended up eliminating all possible candidates for #1:

Preemptively eliminated:
* Anyone who didn't play on a Torts-coached Jackets roster
* Anyone who was currently on the roster as of May 3 2021

Not actually an established NHLer/"respected veteran":
Adam Clendening
Alex Broadhurst
Andrew Bodnarchuk
Cody Goloubef
Jakob Lilja
John Ramage
Jordan Schroeder
Justin Falk
Kerby Rychel
Kevin Connauton
Marko Dano
Michael Chaput
Michael Paliotta
Rene Bourque
Ryan MacInnis
Stefan Matteau
T.J. Tynan
Taylor Chorney
Tyler Motte
Zac Dalpe

Not enough other cities:
Adam McQuaid
Alexander Wennberg
Jared Boll
Markus Hannikainen
Matt Calvert

Left on bad terms:
Pierre-Luc Dubois
Sergei Bobrovsky
Ryan Johansen

--- Past this point are folks who meet the base requirements ---

Little Or No Impact Here (very unlikely):
David Clarkson
Devin Shore
Fedor Tyutin (only one season under Torts at the end of his career)
Greg Campbell
Jussi Jokinen
Kyle Quincey
Lauri Korpikoski
Ryan Dzingel

--- Core Suspects --
Some constraints being checked for everyone:
* Players 1 and 3 both played multiple seasons here
* Player 1 arrived via free agency ("what I wanted when I went there")
* Player 2 left via free agency


ELIMINATED:
Anthony Duclair
* Can't be Player 1 or Player 3 (single-season guy)
* Can't be Player 2 (left via trade)

UNLIKELY:
Artemi Panarin
* Can't be Player 1 (trade arrival)
* Can't be Player 2 (Player 2 directly references Panarin by name multiple times and talks about wanting to stay but being offered under market value)
* Probably isn't Player 3 (3 describes wanting to stay but feeling it was impossible)
Brandon Saad
* Can't be Player 1 (trade arrival)
* Can't be Player 2 (left via trade)
* Probably isn't Player 3 (3 describes wanting to stay but feeling it was impossible)


Curtis McElhinney
* Can't be Player 1 (trade arrival)
Dalton Prout
* Can't be Player 1 (drafted)
* Can't be Player 2 (left via trade)
Ian Cole
* Can't be Player 1 (trade arrival)
* Can't be Player 1 or Player 3 (rental)
Mark Letestu
* Can't be Player 1 (trade arrival)
* Only spent one rental period in Columbus under Tortorella
Markus Nutivaara
* Can't be Player 1 (drafted)
* Can't be Player 2 (left via trade)
Matt Duchene
* Can't be Player 1 (trade arrival)
* Can't be Player 1 or Player 3 (rental)
Ryan Murray
* Can't be Player 1 (drafted)
* Can't be Player 2 (left via trade)
Sam Gagner
* Can't be Player 1 or Player 3 (single-season guy)
Thomas Vanek
* Can't be Player 1 (trade arrival)
* Can't be Player 1 or Player 3 (rental)
William Karlsson
* Can't be Player 1 (trade arrival)
* Can't be Player 2 (left via expansion draft)


STRONG CANDIDATES:

Player 2 candidate: Jack Johnson
* Can't be Player 1 (trade arrival)
* I suspect he's Player 2 (2 talks a lot about money concerns and wanting to stay but being offered under market value)

Player 3 candidate: Scott Hartnell
* Can't be Player 1 (trade arrival)
* Can't be Player 2 (left via buyout)
* Very possibly Player 3 (3 talks about being removed after a "great season"; Hartnell's last season was the 108-pointer)
 

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