Former Canucks Thread

[Mr. Canucklehead]

Not the Management Thread, guys.

That one is here: The Management Thread | Live, Play, Repeat Edition

 

[Vector]

Apropos of nothing, I noticed today that 13 players from the 1993 draft played for the Canucks. I have no idea if this is a lot but it stood out to me.

Weirdly, only two were drafted by the Canucks.
Todd Bertuzzi - NYI
Bryan McCabe - NYI
Brendan Morrison - NJ
Pavol Demitra - Ott
Scott Walker - Van
Marek Malik - Har
Denis Pederson - NJ
Mats Lindgren - Win
Manny Legace - Har
Kevin Weekes - Fla
Rory Fitzpatrick - Mtl
Bert Robertsson - Van
Steve Washburn - Fla
Tyler Moss - TB

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

Apropos of nothing, I noticed today that 13 players from the 1993 draft played for the Canucks. I have no idea if this is a lot but it stood out to me.

Weirdly, only two were drafted by the Canucks.
Todd Bertuzzi - NYI
Bryan McCabe - NYI
Brendan Morrison - NJ
Pavol Demitra - Ott
Scott Walker - Van
Marek Malik - Har
Denis Pederson - NJ
Mats Lindgren - Win
Manny Legace - Har
Kevin Weekes - Fla
Rory Fitzpatrick - Mtl
Bert Robertsson - Van
Steve Washburn - Fla
Tyler Moss - TB

one of the really weird things is our connection with the defencemen of the loaded 2008 draft. five superstars and we got these guys instead

2	53	NY Islanders	Travis Hamonic	D	Moose Jaw Warriors [WHL]	642	37	153	190	595	2020-21
2	52	New Jersey	Brandon Burlon	D	St. Michael's Buzzers [OPJHL]
2	50	Colorado	Cameron Gaunce	D	Mississauga St. Michael's Majors [OHL]	37	3	6	9	47	2019-20
2	46	Florida	Colby Robak	D	Brandon Wheat Kings [WHL]	47	0	4	4	25	2014-15
2	43	Anaheim	Justin Schultz	D	Westside Warriors [BCHL]	490	52	168	220	110	2020-21
2	42	Ottawa	Patrick Wiercioch	D	Omaha Lancers [USHL]	268	16	58	74	138	2016-17
2	41	Vancouver	Yann Sauve	D	Saint John Sea Dogs [QMJHL]	8	0	0	0	0	2013-14
2	40	NY Islanders	Aaron Ness	D	Roseau H.S. (Minn.)	71	1	6	7	22	2019-20
2	38	Nashville	Roman Josi	D	Bern SC [Swiss-A]	641	110	307	417	236	2020-21
2	37	Columbus	Cody Goloubef	D	U. of Wisconsin [WCHA]	160	3	22	25	76	2019-20
2	32	Los Angeles	Vyacheslav Voynov	D	Chelyabinsk Traktor [Russia]	190	18	63	81	72	2014-15
1	27	Washington	John Carlson	D	Indiana Ice [USHL]	767	109	380	489	260	2020-21
1	23	Minnesota	Tyler Cuma	D	Ottawa 67's [OHL]	1	0	0	0	2	2011-12
1	20	NY Rangers	Michael Del Zotto	D	Oshawa Generals [OHL]	668	56	184	240	272	2020-21
1	19	Philadelphia	Luca Sbisa	D	Lethbridge Hurricanes [WHL]	549	20	93	113	385	2020-21
1	17	Anaheim	Jake Gardiner	D	Minnetonka H.S. (Minn.)	626	49	223	272	215	2020-21
1	15	Ottawa	Erik Karlsson	D	Frolunda Jrs (Sweden)	744	135	471	606	356	2020-21
1	13	Los Angeles	Colten Teubert	D	Regina Pats [WHL]	24	0	1	1	25	2011-12
1	12	Buffalo	Tyler Myers	D	Kelowna Rockets [WHL]	716	81	211	292	544	2020-21
1	5	Toronto	Luke Schenn	D	Kelowna Rockets [WHL]	764	31	117	148	573	2020-21
1	4	St. Louis	Alex Pietrangelo	D	Niagara IceDogs [OHL]	765	110	344	454	241	2020-21
1	3	Atlanta	Zach Bogosian	D	Peterborough Petes [OHL]	654	53	143	196	575	2020-21
1	2	Los Angeles	Drew Doughty	D	Guelph Storm [OHL]	928	120	389	509	639	2020-21

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

plus philip larsen and bartkowski in the later rounds.

bonus points for justin schultz and jason demers also being in this draft. plus, gaunce's brother.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

Apropos of nothing, I noticed today that 13 players from the 1993 draft played for the Canucks. I have no idea if this is a lot but it stood out to me.

Weirdly, only two were drafted by the Canucks.
Todd Bertuzzi - NYI
Bryan McCabe - NYI
Brendan Morrison - NJ
Pavol Demitra - Ott
Scott Walker - Van
Marek Malik - Har
Denis Pederson - NJ
Mats Lindgren - Win
Manny Legace - Har
Kevin Weekes - Fla
Rory Fitzpatrick - Mtl
Bert Robertsson - Van
Steve Washburn - Fla
Tyler Moss - TB

also my memory is the '94 draft had a lot. let's see...

1.

jovo
baumgartner
ohlund (our pick)
vadim sharifijanov
cloutier

2.

ryan johnson
scatchard (our pick)
richard park

3.

butenschon
strudwick

4.

lukowich


and later, in the 9th round, hedberg, muckalt (our pick), and tyson nash (our pick) in the 10th

that was just me eyeballing the list, might have missed some guys. four hits, including ohlund; not a bad draft by quinn.

 

[kaiser matias]

Apropos of nothing, I noticed today that 13 players from the 1993 draft played for the Canucks. I have no idea if this is a lot but it stood out to me.

Weirdly, only two were drafted by the Canucks.
Todd Bertuzzi - NYI
Bryan McCabe - NYI
Brendan Morrison - NJ
Pavol Demitra - Ott
Scott Walker - Van
Marek Malik - Har
Denis Pederson - NJ
Mats Lindgren - Win
Manny Legace - Har
Kevin Weekes - Fla
Rory Fitzpatrick - Mtl
Bert Robertsson - Van
Steve Washburn - Fla
Tyler Moss - TB

Take a look at the first round of the 1999 draft: 28 players, 6 former Canucks.

Of course it would reason that one of the worst drafts ever would have so many former Canucks (including 4 of the top 10).

 

[vanuck]

We've had an almost absurd number of guys from the 2003 draft play for the Canucks too at some point:

Ryan Kesler
Nathan McIver
Zack Fitzgerald
Jeff Tambellini
Steve Bernier
Tanner Glass
Shane O'Brien
Max Lapierre
Alexander Sulzer
Brad Richardson
Alexandre Bolduc
Guillaume Desbiens
Byron Bitz
Loui Eriksson
Thomas Vanek

 

[Vector]

Take a look at the first round of the 1999 draft: 28 players, 6 former Canucks.

Of course it would reason that one of the worst drafts ever would have so many former Canucks (including 4 of the top 10).

That one I noticed once Vrbata joined the team.

Sedin
Sedin
Vrbata
Pyatt
Miller
Auld
Beech
Santala
Fedorov
Grenier
Ouellet

also my memory is the '94 draft had a lot. let's see...

1.

jovo
baumgartner
ohlund (our pick)
vadim sharifijanov
cloutier

2.

ryan johnson
scatchard (our pick)
richard park

3.

butenschon
strudwick

4.

lukowich


and later, in the 9th round, hedberg, muckalt (our pick), and tyson nash (our pick) in the 10th

that was just me eyeballing the list, might have missed some guys. four hits, including ohlund; not a bad draft by quinn.

Another 14 guys. Nash never actually played for the Canucks.

Jovanovski
Baumgartner
Ohlund
Sharifijanov
Cloutier
Park
Johnson
Strudwick
Scatchard
Lukowich
Hedberg
Muckalt
Butenschoen
Gordon

We've had an almost absurd number of guys from the 2003 draft play for the Canucks too at some point:

Ryan Kesler
Nathan McIver
Zack Fitzgerald
Jeff Tambellini
Steve Bernier
Tanner Glass
Shane O'Brien
Max Lapierre
Alexander Sulzer
Brad Richardson
Alexandre Bolduc
Guillaume Desbiens
Byron Bitz
Loui Eriksson
Thomas Vanek

That's another good list.

 

[F A N]

We've had an almost absurd number of guys from the 2003 draft play for the Canucks too at some point:

Ryan Kesler
Nathan McIver
Zack Fitzgerald
Jeff Tambellini
Steve Bernier
Tanner Glass
Shane O'Brien
Max Lapierre
Alexander Sulzer
Brad Richardson
Alexandre Bolduc
Guillaume Desbiens
Byron Bitz
Loui Eriksson
Thomas Vanek

Early on that draft was considered one of the best drafts ever and it seemed like some teams thought that the more 2003 draftees the greater your chance of winning a Cup. 11? of the players drafted in the first round went on to win the Stanley Cup. 4? more went to the Cup Finals.

 

[MS]

Early on that draft was considered one of the best drafts ever and it seemed like some teams thought that the more 2003 draftees the greater your chance of winning a Cup. 11? of the players drafted in the first round went on to win the Stanley Cup. 4? more went to the Cup Finals.

Weird draft in that it looked like it would be the best ever outside of the asterisk '79 draft ... and then a whole bunch of guys ended up peaking before age 25 and dropping off hard. Phaneuf and Richards most notably, but also Vanek, Michalek, Parise, Kesler really faded badly through their late 20s, many through injury. In the end, that first round might not have a single HHOFer, which is extremely unusual - Getzlaf might still have a shot.

Circa 2010 there were 10 guys out of that first round who looked like potential HHOFers.

 

[Jyrki21]

With the amount of player movement there is now, and the fact that a lot of these guys were very short-term in Vancouver, I expect lists like this are pretty much going to be the norm for most years where the bulk of the players' careers came after the 04-05 lockout (when the UFA age was dropped).

 

[4Twenty]

Weird draft in that it looked like it would be the best ever outside of the asterisk '79 draft ... and then a whole bunch of guys ended up peaking before age 25 and dropping off hard. Phaneuf and Richards most notably, but also Vanek, Michalek, Parise, Kesler really faded badly through their late 20s, many through injury. In the end, that first round might not have a single HHOFer, which is extremely unusual - Getzlaf might still have a shot.

Circa 2010 there were 10 guys out of that first round who looked like potential HHOFers.

You don't think Fleury, Suter, Staal, Getzlaf and Perry get into the Hall? And Dave Andreychuk is? That's just off the top of my head. The 2003 2nd round has HOFers for sure. It's a hockey hall, not purely an NHL hall. Fleury has 3 cups, Suter has been an incredible player for 18 years, Staal has a cup, 100 point seasons, 1000 points. Seabrook probably rides in there too at one point.

I just looked 12 - 1000 gamers, 10 more with over 600 in just the first. That's incredible isn't it.

Our boy Loui is 12th in scoring from that class. Wild. Needs 30 games to get to 1000. He brings more than Roussell. I hope he gets the silver stick.

 

[MS]

You don't think Fleury, Suter, Staal, Getzlaf and Perry get into the Hall? And Dave Andreychuk is? That's just off the top of my head. The 2003 2nd round has HOFers for sure. It's a hockey hall, not purely an NHL hall. Fleury has 3 cups, Suter has been an incredible player for 18 years, Staal has a cup, 100 point seasons, 1000 points. Seabrook probably rides in there too at one point.

I just looked 12 - 1000 gamers, 10 more with over 600 in just the first. That's incredible isn't it.

General consensus on the HOH board is that Perry and Staal probably won't and Getzlaf might be a shade better than 50/50. Fleury - who knows. Goalies are weird. Suter is probably too under-the-radar - only 1 post-season All-Star selection, not gaudy offensive totals, never past the 2nd round of the playoffs. I would vote for him but most probably won't - his on-paper resume is weak.

Weber and Bergeron will both get in from the 2nd round, yes.

 

[4Twenty]

General consensus on the HOH board is that Perry and Staal probably won't and Getzlaf might be a shade better than 50/50. Fleury - who knows. Goalies are weird. Suter is probably too under-the-radar - only 1 post-season All-Star selection, not gaudy offensive totals, never past the 2nd round of the playoffs. I would vote for him but most probably won't - his on-paper resume is weak.

Weber and Bergeron will both get in from the 2nd round, yes.

Which 1000 point NHLers aren't in? The only one I'm sure on is Theo Fleury.

The Hart doesn't get Perry in? I guess I might have to head over the HOH board for this discussion.

Just perusing that 2003 draft is basically a who's who of the league the last 15 years. Best pick, Joe Pavelski, what a find.

 

[MS]

Which 1000 point NHLers aren't in? The only one I'm sure on is Theo Fleury.

The Hart doesn't get Perry in? I guess I might have to head over the HOH board for this discussion.

Just perusing that 2003 draft is basically a who's who of the league the last 15 years. Best pick, Joe Pavelski, what a find.

Fleury
Taylor
Hunter
Nicholls
Bellows
Tkachuk
Roenick
Mogilny
Alfredsson
Elias

Are just off the top of my head. And Alfredsson and Elias are one-team 1000 point guys which has always been a slam dunk - Dave Taylor had been the only guy to score 1000 points with one team to not get in. Alfredsson in particular was a guy I thought would get in very quickly, and he has a stronger resume than Staal.

 

[MS]

Suter is probably too under-the-radar - only 1 post-season All-Star selection, not gaudy offensive totals, never past the 2nd round of the playoffs. I would vote for him but most probably won't - his on-paper resume is weak.

Weber and Bergeron will both get in from the 2nd round, yes.

Continuing on with this, personally I think Ryan Suter is a better player who has had a better career than Shea Weber. Better skater, better with the puck on his stick, more consistently reliable defensively.

But Weber was a lot flashier player with big hitz and big slapshots and 20 goalz, and that translated to several postseason All-Star selections. And as a 4x postseason All-Star, his resume fits in with past HHOF selections but Suter's does not.

 

[Burke's Evil Spirit]

Yost: Calgary Flames might have found another dominant defensive pairing - TSN.ca

Really good piece in TSN of just how good the Hanifin-Tanev been for the Flames. On the ice for 1 ES goal against , 60% corsi for, 70% xGoals for, *while getting buried in deployment, with majority d-zone starts*. Hurts, but it's nice to see Tanev get some of the recognition he's long deserved.

 

[M2Beezy]

Yost: Calgary Flames might have found another dominant defensive pairing - TSN.ca

Really good piece in TSN of just how good the Hanifin-Tanev been for the Flames. On the ice for 1 ES goal against , 60% corsi for, 70% xGoals for, *while getting buried in deployment, with majority d-zone starts*. Hurts, but it's nice to see Tanev get some of the recognition he's long deserved.

Yeah but by year 4 he would be injured and banged up too much so we dodged a bullet there. Meanwhile Myers luckily will look good for the remaining 4 years of his contract

 

[J Corso]

Fleury is a hall of fame lock, can't believe anyone would even question that. Fifth all time in wins good shot to end up third, three cup wins and other finals appearances, high career save percentage, high career shutouts.

Easy first ballot entrance unless he's pissed off the writers who vote.

 

[F A N]

Weird draft in that it looked like it would be the best ever outside of the asterisk '79 draft ... and then a whole bunch of guys ended up peaking before age 25 and dropping off hard. Phaneuf and Richards most notably, but also Vanek, Michalek, Parise, Kesler really faded badly through their late 20s, many through injury. In the end, that first round might not have a single HHOFer, which is extremely unusual - Getzlaf might still have a shot.

Circa 2010 there were 10 guys out of that first round who looked like potential HHOFers.

Ya. A lot of players did (unexpectedly) peak early. It's like the game changed or something. It's still a very deep draft where you could throw drafts at a board and come away with an NHL player in the first round.

As for the HOF discussion, I actually think 1-3 of them would get in. It is an interesting debate though. A player like Eric Staal peaked early but had a long career. Won a Cup, appeared in all star games, no individual wards. Chances are his career totals will look better than Henrik's. But Henrik has won the Hart and Art Ross. There are some players with better career offensive totals who are not in the HOF.

Speaking of the Hart trophy, now that Lindros is in, besides Jose Theodore, every single retired player who has won the Hart trophy is in the HHOF thus far. So where does that leave Corey Perry?

 

[4Twenty]

It just seems ridiculous to me to base whether you're a hall of famer based on who hockey media voted to all stars teams and major awards.

That's how you get Jon Toews and no Evgeni Malkin in the top 100 players.

 

[F A N]

Fleury is a hall of fame lock, can't believe anyone would even question that. Fifth all time in wins good shot to end up third, three cup wins and other finals appearances, high career save percentage, high career shutouts.

Easy first ballot entrance unless he's pissed off the writers who vote.

He's never won a Vezina or even been a finalist. He was the goaltender in net for 1 of his team's Cup clinching wins. Certainly some question marks there.

 

[Hit the post]

He's never won a Vezina or even been a finalist. He was the goaltender in net for 1 of his team's Cup clinching wins. Certainly some question marks there.

Guy certainly looked like Jacques Plante in his prime when he was ‘on’ but also looked liked Dan Cloutier at his worst sometimes. At least from my POV. Certainly many times more good than bad; but to me, not often average.

 

[MS]

Fleury is a hall of fame lock, can't believe anyone would even question that. Fifth all time in wins good shot to end up third, three cup wins and other finals appearances, high career save percentage, high career shutouts.

Easy first ballot entrance unless he's pissed off the writers who vote.

He's never won a Vezina or even been a finalist. He was the goaltender in net for 1 of his team's Cup clinching wins. Certainly some question marks there.

Guy certainly looked like Jacques Plante in his prime when he was ‘on’ but also looked liked Dan Cloutier at his worst sometimes. At least from my POV. Certainly many times more good than bad; but to me, not often average.

Fleury is *highly* questionable.

As noted, 0 post-season All-Star selections, 0 times a Vezina finalist. If inducted, that would make him a *massive* outlier.

He's always had a high pedigree and name value for being a #1 pick + the goalie on the Crosby/Malkin teams, but when you look at his career as a whole, it looks closer to something between Mike Richter and Chris Osgood than it does to the actual elite HHOF guys like Brodeur/Roy/Belfour/Hasek.

The standards on goalies have traditionally been higher than for position players. Richter, Vernon, Barrasso, Joseph all not in.

GSAA is an interesting new stat that is probably as close as you can get to a WAR stat for goalies - basically it's the amount of goals 'saved' by how far +/- your save % was to the league average. For their careers, the recent HHOF guys (and Luongo, who will get in) stand out from the pack :

Roy - 460
Hasek - 412
Luongo - 270
Brodeur - 206
Belfour - 173

Joseph - 126
Price - 110
Richter - 109
Kolzig - 99

Fleury - 46
Osgood - -15 (although he was at +25 until his last two terrible seasons)
Vernon - -34 (!)

 

[MS]

It just seems ridiculous to me to base whether you're a hall of famer based on who hockey media voted to all stars teams and major awards.

That's how you get Jon Toews and no Evgeni Malkin in the top 100 players.

?

Malkin destroys Toews in terms of awards/AS voting.

Malkin
- 3x 1st Team All-Star
- 1x Hart Trophy, 2x Hart runner-up
- 1x Calder
- 1x Conn Smythe

Toews
- 1x 2nd Team All-Star
- 1x Conn Smythe
- 1x Selke
- 0x Hart Finalist, best finish 4th.

 

[4Twenty]

?

Malkin destroys Toews in terms of awards/AS voting.

Malkin
- 3x 1st Team All-Star
- 1x Hart Trophy, 2x Hart runner-up
- 1x Calder
- 1x Conn Smythe

Toews
- 1x 2nd Team All-Star
- 1x Conn Smythe
- 1x Selke
- 0x Hart Finalist, best finish 4th.

The point was not about their awards voting but that the same folks would leave Malkin off a list in place of Toews because reasons.

Same folks gave Corey Perry a Hart because they were loathed to give it to the deserving because reasons.